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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    166
    It's a different perspective, one that many people share. You can't delete away an opposing opinion.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    35,579
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeMeNot View Post
    It's a different perspective, one that many people share. You can't delete away an opposing opinion.
    No, its trolling. Its not providing a different perspective. Its some ascertainment of being a man is only through violence. Bringing up the mathlete garbage is just off topic ********. We know you don't like analytics.

    You and both know there was a way for you to have that opinion without constructing your point that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeMeNot View Post
    You're dead right.
    See, that's an example of not trolling. You know the difference.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-14-2020 at 01:10 AM.

  3. 01-14-2020, 01:00 AM
    Reason
    Trolling

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    207
    The "punishment" is a joke.

    Here's the proper punishment:

    The Astros should have lost their division pennants for the years 2017-2019.
    The Red Sox should have lost their division pennant for 2018.
    The Astros should have lost their world championship for 2017 and no winner would be declared for that year.
    The Red Sox should have lost their world championship for 2018 and no winner would be declared for that year.
    Jose Altuve should have lost his 2017 MVP award.
    Each team should have been fined a significant amount of money (at least 50M).
    Each team should have lost at least two years of draft picks and at least 50% of their international money for two years.
    Any player who received signals (per the videos) should have been suspended 81 games (suspensions could be staggered if necessary). Also, any player who received signals should have been fined a significant amount of money (% of their salaries).
    Both managers and bench coaches should have been barred from any MLB job for 10 years (including broadcasting and minor league positions).

    That would have been a just punishment.

  5. #19
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    44,465
    Can't say I care all that much about it but seems like a pretty strong penalty.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    31,065
    I thought the penalty was fair. There's no way to penalize players for this unless you could know exactly who benefited from the system. If you go by the "everyone knows, therefore everyone is guilty" method, then I think we're going to need a crapton of whiteout to go back through the sport's history and start erasing titles, records and awards.

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I thought the penalty was fair. There's no way to penalize players for this unless you could know exactly who benefited from the system.
    They have the video of batters getting the signals from the dugout. I think it is reasonable to surmise that the dugout would not bother to give a signal to a player who told them he would not use it.

    If cheating pays, more teams will find a way to cheat.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    3,895
    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    That would be assault!
    Nah. That was just the way things were done in the "old-days".

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    3,895
    Quote Originally Posted by PJO34 View Post
    The "punishment" is a joke.

    Here's the proper punishment:

    The Astros should have lost their division pennants for the years 2017-2019.
    The Red Sox should have lost their division pennant for 2018.
    The Astros should have lost their world championship for 2017 and no winner would be declared for that year.
    The Red Sox should have lost their world championship for 2018 and no winner would be declared for that year.
    Jose Altuve should have lost his 2017 MVP award.
    Each team should have been fined a significant amount of money (at least 50M).
    Each team should have lost at least two years of draft picks and at least 50% of their international money for two years.
    Any player who received signals (per the videos) should have been suspended 81 games (suspensions could be staggered if necessary). Also, any player who received signals should have been fined a significant amount of money (% of their salaries).
    Both managers and bench coaches should have been barred from any MLB job for 10 years (including broadcasting and minor league positions).

    That would have been a just punishment.
    This can't be done. The penalties were as severe as they could have been. The fine was the largest allowable.

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    31,065
    Quote Originally Posted by PJO34 View Post
    They have the video of batters getting the signals from the dugout. I think it is reasonable to surmise that the dugout would not bother to give a signal to a player who told them he would not use it.

    If cheating pays, more teams will find a way to cheat.
    Then create a system that allows pitchers and catchers to relay signals with technology other teams can't pick up on. How hard would it be to create a system that allows the catcher to press a button that sends a signal to a pitcher on what pitch he'd like him to throw? We have apps for the most asinine things in 2020—I'm sure technology exists that would make this pretty freaking easy.

    If you have a system in place that allows for cheating, no punishment of any team will ever be enough to prevent cheating from happening. Baseball significantly increased its penalties for PEDs, but guys still get busted for them. You could have stripped the Astros and Red Sox of everything, and someone will still break the rules in a year or two. It's inevitable.


  11. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    34,133
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Nah. That was just the way things were done in the "old-days".
    I wasn't being serious

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    10,327
    The fact the owner got the benefit of the WS wins and everything that's gone with that, and got to stand there basically saying 'they did what? they're fired' and little more....is just flat laughable.

    As is granting players anonymity for testifying.

    The owner either knew about it.....or should have known about it....either way he should bear more responsibility for it.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn New York
    Posts
    20,573
    Considering they’re being scapegoated for something half the league is doing, I think it was fair. Only if MLB treats the teams who did this and didn’t win the same way.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumé

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    31,065
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    The fact the owner got the benefit of the WS wins and everything that's gone with that, and got to stand there basically saying 'they did what? they're fired' and little more....is just flat laughable.

    As is granting players anonymity for testifying.

    The owner either knew about it.....or should have known about it....either way he should bear more responsibility for it.
    I've seen people complain about the players being let off for testifying, and while I understand the justification behind the frustration, I don't think it's especially well thought-out. Consider this—if you don't get players on the record to talk about it, how are you going to build your case that the team cheated? Without other players from that team, your entire investigation would be built on comments from a single former player who plays for a rival team.


  15. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
    Posts
    21,108
    I think both AJ Hinch and Jeff Lunhow should have to wear a fastball thrown by Rob Manfred.

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Metroplex
    Posts
    2,395
    Quote Originally Posted by PJO34 View Post
    The "punishment" is a joke.

    Here's the proper punishment:

    The Astros should have lost their division pennants for the years 2017-2019.
    The Red Sox should have lost their division pennant for 2018.
    The Astros should have lost their world championship for 2017 and no winner would be declared for that year.
    The Red Sox should have lost their world championship for 2018 and no winner would be declared for that year.
    Jose Altuve should have lost his 2017 MVP award.
    Each team should have been fined a significant amount of money (at least 50M).
    Each team should have lost at least two years of draft picks and at least 50% of their international money for two years.
    Any player who received signals (per the videos) should have been suspended 81 games (suspensions could be staggered if necessary). Also, any player who received signals should have been fined a significant amount of money (% of their salaries).
    Both managers and bench coaches should have been barred from any MLB job for 10 years (including broadcasting and minor league positions).

    That would have been a just punishment.
    You forgot one thing - that slime owner Jim Crane should have received a penalty of some kind and severely reprimanded. They let him off scott free and even indicated he didnt know. Its called lack of institutional control and he owns the institution.

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