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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Completely disagree. LG is a fairly insignificant position. Safeties like Harris are rare and true game changers. I know everybody hates Elflein because he struggles in pass pro but he's not that bad of a guard. Scherff would be an awesome addition but not at the expense of Harris. We're better off drafting a guard to compete and eventually replace Elflein.
    With the way our offense is designed and with a QB like Kirk, we need good OLineman. The Packers, Bears and 49ers games proved that our Oline is overmatched and needs more upgrading. With a better Oline our ground game gets better, so we can control the clock and keep our defense fresh. Our pass game gets better, so we can makes plays when we need too and have the time to do it. I don't want to lose Harris but at the cost of trading Harris for Scherff.. I do it in a heartbeat.

  2. #17
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Steubenville, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    With the way our offense is designed and with a QB like Kirk, we need good OLineman. The Packers, Bears and 49ers games proved that our Oline is overmatched and needs more upgrading. With a better Oline our ground game gets better, so we can control the clock and keep our defense fresh. Our pass game gets better, so we can makes plays when we need too and have the time to do it. I don't want to lose Harris but at the cost of trading Harris for Scherff.. I do it in a heartbeat.
    Our line was middle of the pack and we finished tied for 10th in points scored. Top 10 in rushing and passing EPA. Next gen stats says Kirk Cousins had the highest time to throw in the league (3.01). PFF graded all of our lineman to be at least average except for Bradbury.

    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/p...-time-to-throw

    You want to invest your money into guys who are going to have the greatest impact on the game. Harris lead the league in interceptions and has 9 over the past two years. He's also excellent in the run game. He is a star player who impacts games. Do we beat New Orleans without him? You don't let a player like Harris leave because our LG isn't that good. Guard is one of the easiest positions to replace, especially a LG. Ross Tucker wrote an article explaining how LG's usually get a lot of help and shouldn't be given large salaries. Bucky Brooks ranked every position in order of importance and LG was 20th out of 25 while free safety was 11th.

    I'm all for upgrading the OL. I'm not denying how we struggle against elite competition like Mack or Bosa but if you let Harris go then you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I expect retaining Harris will be Spielman's #1 priority and it should be.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  3. #18
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    My Shell
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    7,201
    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    In 5 of our losses this year it was mainly a result because of our interior line getting destroyed. I agree that Harris is a guy you don't want to let go but you resign Harris and leave LG as is it does not improve our team one bit. We could resign Harris and sign Scherff but we'd have to let both Waynes and Alexander go. I don't know, it's a tricky offseason thats for sure.
    Wouldnt be that big of a hit honestly

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    South Dakota
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    wild and crazy idea....and I don't even like Cam, but he also only has a year left on his contract.....

    Would the Panthers consider trading Cam for Kirk? Maybe not directly, but a trade like that gets BOTH teams a QB they may not care if they'd be lame ducks while drafting a hopeful successor....lower cap hit for us, option to wait on drafting a QB for them
    Last edited by SiteWolf; 01-15-2020 at 02:32 PM.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Honoululu
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    5,093
    Here's my first shot at the 2020 draft. In this scenario, we would've signed a starting G, not paid Harris, and signed a NT.

    25: DL JAVON KINLAW
    58: S ANTOINE WINFIELD
    89: OT MATT PEART
    129: EDGE PATRICK JOHNSON
    138: WR DENZEL MIMS
    205: LB KYAHVA TEZINO
    219: G KEVIN JARVIS
    239: QB KHALIL TATE
    253: CB MIKE HAMPTON
    254: OT JACK DRISCOLL

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Iowa
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    13,273
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Our line was middle of the pack and we finished tied for 10th in points scored. Top 10 in rushing and passing EPA. Next gen stats says Kirk Cousins had the highest time to throw in the league (3.01). PFF graded all of our lineman to be at least average except for Bradbury.

    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/p...-time-to-throw

    You want to invest your money into guys who are going to have the greatest impact on the game. Harris lead the league in interceptions and has 9 over the past two years. He's also excellent in the run game. He is a star player who impacts games. Do we beat New Orleans without him? You don't let a player like Harris leave because our LG isn't that good. Guard is one of the easiest positions to replace, especially a LG. Ross Tucker wrote an article explaining how LG's usually get a lot of help and shouldn't be given large salaries. Bucky Brooks ranked every position in order of importance and LG was 20th out of 25 while free safety was 11th.

    I'm all for upgrading the OL. I'm not denying how we struggle against elite competition like Mack or Bosa but if you let Harris go then you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I expect retaining Harris will be Spielman's #1 priority and it should be.
    Someone posted on Twitter that while we did improve our pass block win rate was like 27th.

  7. #22
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    Aug 2007
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    Iowa
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    13,273
    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles24 View Post
    Wouldnt be that big of a hit honestly
    It'll hurt more than you think. Alexander is a real good slot guy so I'd expect them to try and resign him. Waynes we kind of all knew he would be gone. I still wouldn't be opposed to signing him to a cheaper 2-3 year deal and he can try to turn it around as he played real bad this last season.

  8. #23
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    Feb 2005
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    South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    It'll hurt more than you think. Alexander is a real good slot guy so I'd expect them to try and resign him. Waynes we kind of all knew he would be gone. I still wouldn't be opposed to signing him to a cheaper 2-3 year deal and he can try to turn it around as he played real bad this last season.
    but if we cut Rhodes, shouldn't we be keeping Waynes? I mean we still don't really know what we have with Hughes at this point and I never really thought he was a good pick simply because he's best suited as a slot guy like Mac. 'course, Zim may feel Hill can take Wayne's slot, I don't know.......
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  9. #24
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    but if we cut Rhodes, shouldn't we be keeping Waynes? I mean we still don't really know what we have with Hughes at this point and I never really thought he was a good pick simply because he's best suited as a slot guy like Mac. 'course, Zim may feel Hill can take Wayne's slot, I don't know.......
    I've really liked what I've seen out of Hill. He has potential IF he can stay out of trouble.

  10. #25
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    Mar 2009
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    Iowa
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    Quote Originally Posted by natelpete View Post
    I've really liked what I've seen out of Hill. He has potential IF he can stay out of trouble.
    Keyword... IF

  11. #26
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    Aug 2007
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    Iowa
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    Quote Originally Posted by natelpete View Post
    I've really liked what I've seen out of Hill. He has potential IF he can stay out of trouble.
    Yea I don't think you can trust that but I feel regardless we'll be drafting another corner within the first 3 rounds.

  12. #27
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    You realize the only issue Hill has had is with weed, right? No bar fights, no violent behavior....just likes his pot.
    And leagues are finally realizing that maybe that shouldn't be viewed as the negative they've been viewing it as.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #28
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    Jun 2007
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    Steubenville, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    You realize the only issue Hill has had is with weed, right? No bar fights, no violent behavior....just likes his pot.
    And leagues are finally realizing that maybe that shouldn't be viewed as the negative they've been viewing it as.
    He was also suspended for "performance-enhancing substances". I think he has the upside to be a solid corner but he's trending on thin ice with the league. One slip up in either area will be another 8 games.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  14. #29
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    Aug 2007
    Location
    Iowa
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    You realize the only issue Hill has had is with weed, right? No bar fights, no violent behavior....just likes his pot.
    And leagues are finally realizing that maybe that shouldn't be viewed as the negative they've been viewing it as.
    Oh for sure but banned substance whether we like it or not will still get him 8 games to a full season ban.

    Report came out last night that Hughes broke a vertebrae in his neck but should be back in time for off season workouts. So another sort of red flag in terms of having available bodies at CB. This could play into whether we decide to cut Xavier.

  15. #30
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    Oh for sure but banned substance whether we like it or not will still get him 8 games to a full season ban.

    Report came out last night that Hughes broke a vertebrae in his neck but should be back in time for off season workouts. So another sort of red flag in terms of having available bodies at CB. This could play into whether we decide to cut Xavier.
    On the plus side, didn't baseball announce they'll no longer be testing for THC? Hopefully the NFL will get that added in the next CBA.

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