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  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I think we did have a good draft overall but it had more to do with having the extra capital and the first 3 picks. Our draft includes replacing Diggs on top of our own picks to start, we should have a haul.

    I haven't seen very good grades on our day 3 picks though.
    Some of the guys I donít know much about but IMO Wonnum, Lynch, Willekes, and Hand were good picks. I read good things about Dye. But we had 15 picks. We had the ability to grab a punt returner like Osborn. Iím fine with that. But if we had a normal 7 round draft (including both 1sts) our best picks look like:

    Justin Jefferson
    Jeff Gladney
    Ezra Cleveland
    Cam Dantzler
    D.J. Wonnum
    James Lynch
    Harrison Hand
    Kenny Willekes

    If the rest of the guys we picked were UDFAís we would be loving our draft. I know it didnít turn out that way but with so much draft capital I was expecting some players to be picked who were specialists like Osborn. IMO we had a very good draft.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  2. #932
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    Boys we killed this draft. We filled our needs and then some. The only gripe I have is that we weren't able to get a bigger wideout. Other than that, it was a damn good draft for us. And, we gained good picks for next year as well. A-/B+ for me.

  3. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Boys we killed this draft. We filled our needs and then some. The only gripe I have is that we weren't able to get a bigger wideout. Other than that, it was a damn good draft for us. And, we gained good picks for next year as well. A-/B+ for me.
    This is how I feel. A few things I would have liked to be different but overall love it.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  4. #934
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    vikings signed quartney davis wr tex a&m as udfa

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Some of the guys I donít know much about but IMO Wonnum, Lynch, Willekes, and Hand were good picks. I read good things about Dye. But we had 15 picks. We had the ability to grab a punt returner like Osborn. Iím fine with that. But if we had a normal 7 round draft (including both 1sts) our best picks look like:

    Justin Jefferson
    Jeff Gladney
    Ezra Cleveland
    Cam Dantzler
    D.J. Wonnum
    James Lynch
    Harrison Hand
    Kenny Willekes

    If the rest of the guys we picked were UDFAís we would be loving our draft. I know it didnít turn out that way but with so much draft capital I was expecting some players to be picked who were specialists like Osborn. IMO we had a very good draft.


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    That is my point, we had a good draft if you narrow it down like that.

    If you look at this as 7 picks a regular team has it's great BUT we also had the comp plus Diggs it changes it a little bit. We didn't maximize the overall value of our picks given that we had so much extra capital in this draft.

    Wonnum/Hand I will give you and already mentioned the other 3. We still had plenty of opportunity to address interior offensive line and weren't aggressive at all. You named 5 of our picks today in saying we did good but we had 11 picks. If you are ignoring 6 picks to make your point I think you understand mine. Yes those 5 are alright, it's the other 6 we could have been using to move up and so on.

    I think we had a good draft. I think that given all the assets we had we did not maximize the value overall and it could have been better. I am not that far off you guys if you say B+ as I am saying B-. That can be explained if you are viewing it through the 7 pick lens and I am viewing the entire value including Diggs.

  6. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by carter80 View Post
    We are 2 years away from being 2 years away now

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Every year lol. Rinse repear.

  7. #937
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    Steubenville, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    That is my point, we had a good draft if you narrow it down like that.

    If you look at this as 7 picks a regular team has it's great BUT we also had the comp plus Diggs it changes it a little bit. We didn't maximize the overall value of our picks given that we had so much extra capital in this draft.

    Wonnum/Hand I will give you and already mentioned the other 3. We still had plenty of opportunity to address interior offensive line and weren't aggressive at all. You named 5 of our picks today in saying we did good but we had 11 picks. If you are ignoring 6 picks to make your point I think you understand mine. Yes those 5 are alright, it's the other 6 we could have been using to move up and so on.

    I think we had a good draft. I think that given all the assets we had we did not maximize the value overall and it could have been better. I am not that far off you guys if you say B+ as I am saying B-. That can be explained if you are viewing it through the 7 pick lens and I am viewing the entire value including Diggs.
    I don't agree with that. 6 of our picks were in the 6th and 7th rounds. At that point your basically just throwing **** at the wall and hoping it sticks. Outside of Osborn, our picks in rounds 1-5 are all very talented players with high character. High upside players. I would have liked to see Rick trade up a few times, I'll admit that. For example, I really wanted Gallimore or Elliott in round 3 but it takes two to tango. Rick could have easily been trying to trade up but nobody bite. In the end, we ended up with Dantzler and Lynch. I'm 100% on board with how that turned out. Our 6th and 7th round picks are nothing more than just a throw in for any potential trade up so if no team was biting on a 3rd + a middle round pick then a 6th or 7th isn't going to sway them. IMO, for the most part, Spielman played the board pretty damn well. Honestly I would say he absolutely maximized the picks, especially when you consider he turned 2 picks into future picks that are better than their current value. My only gripe is not taking a chance on Biadasz or Muti. I'm on the fence between a B+ and an A- minus because of missing on those 2 and I wanted another receiver but I think signing Quartney Davis is enough to give them an A-. We're walking away with so much talent that I can't find a way to be truly disappointed.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  8. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I don't agree with that. 6 of our picks were in the 6th and 7th rounds. At that point your basically just throwing **** at the wall and hoping it sticks. Outside of Osborn, our picks in rounds 1-5 are all very talented players with high character. High upside players. I would have liked to see Rick trade up a few times, I'll admit that. For example, I really wanted Gallimore or Elliott in round 3 but it takes two to tango. Rick could have easily been trying to trade up but nobody bite. In the end, we ended up with Dantzler and Lynch. I'm 100% on board with how that turned out. Our 6th and 7th round picks are nothing more than just a throw in for any potential trade up so if no team was biting on a 3rd + a middle round pick then a 6th or 7th isn't going to sway them. IMO, for the most part, Spielman played the board pretty damn well. Honestly I would say he absolutely maximized the picks, especially when you consider he turned 2 picks into future picks that are better than their current value. My only gripe is not taking a chance on Biadasz or Muti. I'm on the fence between a B+ and an A- minus because of missing on those 2 and I wanted another receiver but I think signing Quartney Davis is enough to give them an A-. We're walking away with so much talent that I can't find a way to be truly disappointed.
    We could have traded the later round picks for next year instead and then used the earlier ones instead of trading back to get some of those guys! We could have used later pick on return man and traded up with that for something else. There is no reason to pretend we couldn't have gotten some of the prospects you named by playing this differently.

    I think there are tons of talented players in general but when I look at reviews on even our first pick today Wonnum I see plenty late day 3 and even undrafted. That might be a prospect we say alright I give it to you zim and Speilman but that isn't maximizing value wise imo.

    I think Speilman gets an A- for the way he handled the first two days as I have already said. I liked those moves back and he played the board great. I think he gets about a D+ for the way he handled today as I keep saying though with 13 picks. There is no reason we couldn't have walked away with one of those interior lineman and/or better WR prospect than a returner. I am not that disappointed with the draft as I still have it in that B range. B is pretty good, I just think we left some players on the board we didn't need to for others.

    It just could have been better if he played today differently and was aggressive. He set us up perfectly to do so and then just sat back and imo made some iffy timed picks that arguably could have waited based on reviews I see while not addressing a major need in interior oline.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 04-25-2020 at 10:49 PM.

  9. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    We could have traded the later round picks for next year instead and then used the earlier ones instead of trading back to get some of those guys! We could have used later pick on return man and traded up with that for something else. There is no reason to pretend we couldn't have gotten some of the prospects you named by playing this differently.

    I think there are tons of talented players in general but when I look at reviews on even our first pick today Wonnum I see plenty late day 3 and even undrafted. That might be a prospect we say alright I give it to you zim and Speilman but that isn't maximizing value wise imo.

    I think Speilman gets an A- for the way he handled the first two days as I have already said. I liked those moves back and he played the board great. I think he gets about a D+ for the way he handled today as I keep saying though with 13 picks. There is no reason we couldn't have walked away with one of those interior lineman and/or better WR prospect than a returner. I am not that disappointed with the draft as I still have it in that B range. B is pretty good, I just think we left some players on the board we didn't need to for others.

    It just could have been better if he played today differently and was aggressive. He set us up perfectly to do so and then just sat back and imo made some iffy timed picks that arguably could have waited based on reviews I see while not addressing a major need in interior oline.
    But who is to say Rick didn't try to trade up? He mentioned I believe after day 1 that he wanted to be aggressive. In the past he's made aggressive trades in the 2nd and 3rd rounds so I believe 100% they were active on the phones. Again though, if no team was interested there isn't anything you can do. For example, Gallimore. The Vikings were reported to like him. The Raiders took Bryan Edwards the pick before. We could have been engaged on a trade but if Edwards was their guy I doubt throwing an extra 5th or 6th round pick is enough to entice them to risk missing out on their guy. There is just too many unknowns to say we were or were not aggressive.

    Once we start getting into guys like Wonnum (I mostly saw him going in the 5th round so I thought it was a bit of a reach) but IMO that was probably a situation where Andre Patterson identified him as a player he wanted to work with. Regardless of whether or not it was a reach, Patterson should be getting his guys.

    Honestly, I kinda feel like our opinions are closer than it appears. Personally, I would have drafted Peoples-Jones over Osborn because of natural talented and because PJ also returned punts for Michigan. Muti was also on the board and I would have taken him over Osborn. Whoever we take in the 6th or 7th rounds I don't really care much about either way because it's such a crap shoot. I thought our first 8 picks were very good. Given our history with late round picks, I'll give the benefit of the doubt and hope one of them finds a way onto the roster like a Weatherly or Kearse did.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  10. #940
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    Steubenville, Ohio
    Posts
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    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  11. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    But who is to say Rick didn't try to trade up? He mentioned I believe after day 1 that he wanted to be aggressive. In the past he's made aggressive trades in the 2nd and 3rd rounds so I believe 100% they were active on the phones. Again though, if no team was interested there isn't anything you can do. For example, Gallimore. The Vikings were reported to like him. The Raiders took Bryan Edwards the pick before. We could have been engaged on a trade but if Edwards was their guy I doubt throwing an extra 5th or 6th round pick is enough to entice them to risk missing out on their guy. There is just too many unknowns to say we were or were not aggressive.

    Once we start getting into guys like Wonnum (I mostly saw him going in the 5th round so I thought it was a bit of a reach) but IMO that was probably a situation where Andre Patterson identified him as a player he wanted to work with. Regardless of whether or not it was a reach, Patterson should be getting his guys.

    Honestly, I kinda feel like our opinions are closer than it appears. Personally, I would have drafted Peoples-Jones over Osborn because of natural talented and because PJ also returned punts for Michigan. Muti was also on the board and I would have taken him over Osborn. Whoever we take in the 6th or 7th rounds I don't really care much about either way because it's such a crap shoot. I thought our first 8 picks were very good. Given our history with late round picks, I'll give the benefit of the doubt and hope one of them finds a way onto the roster like a Weatherly or Kearse did.
    I saw plenty of other teams actually succeed and do it though while he did not. I know he said he wanted to be aggressive, that is the problem is it was just words when it should have been action. I just don't buy the idea no teams were interested as there were trades throughout the draft, my guess is Rick was stingy with his offers as much as anything. Would that surprise anyone if he generally offers less than others to move up? At the end of the day we didn't even move up once despite having more ammo than anyone else.

    I agree we should be getting some of our coaches guys but that doesn't change the value aspect either. When you mentioned him initially with the others I didn't point it out because I am not like mad at the pick nor think it is necessarily bad so don't get me wrong. Grading the value like I would anywhere else in the draft though and based on others reviews it is below average as were some other picks (honestly I don't see a ton of positives from day 3 compared to where drafted). We used one a bit early on returner. We did not hit interior oline which has long been a big need. We had 13 picks (even 11 should have done more, I am also fine trading for futures if we are set). It is the combination of all of this with the lack of aggression that makes today a poor day for Rick, it is not just one thing.

    I agree and that is likely because the 1st day matters more/we did nail that part so we both have pretty good overall grades at least. I feel like we were set up for a home run draft though and today was a bummer. Again not because I dislike all our prospects but because we had 13 picks and weren't aggressive/didn't hit key area/might not have gotten best values. It was pretty good but we didn't take that next step to make it a great one given the capital we had.

  12. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I saw plenty of other teams actually succeed and do it though while he did not. I know he said he wanted to be aggressive, that is the problem is it was just words when it should have been action. I just don't buy the idea no teams were interested as there were trades throughout the draft, my guess is Rick was stingy with his offers as much as anything. Would that surprise anyone if he generally offers less than others to move up? At the end of the day we didn't even move up once despite having more ammo than anyone else.

    I agree we should be getting some of our coaches guys but that doesn't change the value aspect either. When you mentioned him initially with the others I didn't point it out because I am not like mad at the pick nor think it is necessarily bad so don't get me wrong. Grading the value like I would anywhere else in the draft though and based on others reviews it is below average as were some other picks (honestly I don't see a ton of positives from day 3 compared to where drafted). We used one a bit early on returner. We did not hit interior oline which has long been a big need. We had 13 picks (even 11 should have done more, I am also fine trading for futures if we are set). It is the combination of all of this with the lack of aggression that makes today a poor day for Rick, it is not just one thing.

    I agree and that is likely because the 1st day matters more/we did nail that part so we both have pretty good overall grades at least. I feel like we were set up for a home run draft though and today was a bummer. Again not because I dislike all our prospects but because we had 13 picks and weren't aggressive/didn't hit key area/might not have gotten best values. It was pretty good but we didn't take that next step to make it a great one given the capital we had.
    Rick has never been stingy in the past. Heís traded in day 1 and 2 for all these players:

    Harrison Smith
    CP
    Teddy
    Danielle Hunter
    Dalvin Cook
    Pat Elflein

    Heís called trader Rick for a reason. I doubt he was just sitting on his hands. Weíll just never know, though.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  13. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Rick has never been stingy in the past. Heís traded in day 1 and 2 for all these players:

    Harrison Smith
    CP
    Teddy
    Danielle Hunter
    Dalvin Cook
    Pat Elflein

    Heís called trader Rick for a reason. I doubt he was just sitting on his hands. Weíll just never know, though.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I never said Rick was stingy in the past for certain players he really wanted, I said generally (so when he isn't being aggressive for someone they really want). Also we can't see what we traded in those trades compared to others we may have gotten good deals to moveup. He maybe wanted those individual players more than he wanted the ones on the board today and was aggressive about it. We didn't see that today and every draft is different.

    This one he made the claim we wanted to be aggressive and we had the most draft capital and trades happened. So either they simply did not try to be aggressive (which goes against what he said) or they were not willing to part with as many assets as all of the other teams who ended up trading up when we chose not to (maybe they gave up too much but in comparison we are stingy).

    I doubt he was sitting on his hands either, I just don't think the final decisions necessarily maximized the value. I don't think the final actions were aggressive, as he had stated they wanted to be. We will never know for sure what really happened so it is mostly moot but at the end of the day my grade is based on the result which lacks that aggression and appears more passive never trading up and missing out on some potential higher level talent/value and not hitting a key need.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 04-26-2020 at 01:01 AM.

  14. #944
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    Rick nailed the first 3 rounds, so I can't be too upset that day 3 didn't turn out how I wanted. They did way more research on any of the players than all of us combined, so I guess I'll give it my stamp of approval, even though we missed out on a lot of guys I wanted. Excited for Quartney Davis as a UDFA.

  15. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by natelpete View Post
    Rick nailed the first 3 rounds, so I can't be too upset that day 3 didn't turn out how I wanted. They did way more research on any of the players than all of us combined, so I guess I'll give it my stamp of approval, even though we missed out on a lot of guys I wanted. Excited for Quartney Davis as a UDFA.
    I think those first three rounds gave us enough talent/filled the right spots to keep us as playoff contenders if as good as rated. We might drop off a little with no Diggs/not necessarily improving oline but I think defensively we could be similar to last even with the rookies/youth at DB since it was poor last year (Griffen leaving but we got nice line depth in draft too).

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