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  1. #4561
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    Mar 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    PFF has it's value, but I feel like they're kinda up their own ***** when it comes to their grades. It's not an exact science and there's a little too much bias involved IMO.
    Their grading - in my opinion - shifted dramatically when they moved from a startup to a commercial product. Their OL, DL, and situational grading for skill players was amazing. The bias piece - again, to me - seems to have amped up dramatically as they added staff to satisfy a bigger product than it started out.

  2. #4562
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Carr is an improvement over Mitch, obviously? Did I say otherwise? I think you missed the part about giving up multiple picks and 16 mil in cap. Do we even know what Oakland wants? Iím sure their asking price is going to start with at least a 1st rounder. Possibly more. Do I want to build my offense around Derek Carr? Not especially. So why would I give up cap and picks for him? Without picks being thrown in there, sure. Thought I made that pretty clear.
    You fooled me. I had no idea what point you were making other than to ridicule/dismiss the other side of an argument you were on.

    If you're concerned the price is gonna be too high that's all you have to say and we'd be in complete agreement.

  3. #4563
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    Their grading - in my opinion - shifted dramatically when they moved from a startup to a commercial product. Their OL, DL, and situational grading for skill players was amazing. The bias piece - again, to me - seems to have amped up dramatically as they added staff to satisfy a bigger product than it started out.
    That was really frustrating. Used to have an account and stopped buying once it became a tiered product.

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  4. #4564
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    I really don't see what another 4-6 game sample is going to tell us, but it's kinda what I expect to happen too.

    I hope Pace surprises is all though.
    I just think alot of things could be contributing factors. And you can tell me it all falls back to mitches fault if you want to believe it. but our inability to get into 3rd and managable. our inabilities to keep drives alive on those 3rd and shorts. Our absolute inability to run the ball with success and many times become 1 dimensional. the offense as a whole had no rhythm. We had terrible penelties in the worst situations. and some of this is Mitch. Maybe a better QB does improve this. Or maybe the offense as a whole running smother puts mitch in a better Rhythm.

    I know alot of people want to point at Tannahill and the Titans and how Tennessee got better once there was change. But how about Vice versa here. and how Tannahill got so much better once he got onto a team with a good OL.... good Running game to lean on and an offense that had rhythm and success.

    my point here is. If you take Carr. and think putting him into the bears situation last year fixes everything i think your wrong. I think Carr looks substantially worse as Mitch did (maybe not as bad) because the scenario is 100% diferent to being in Oakland where they have a dominant OL and Run game. and the same thing goes for Tannahill or anyone else who is average who has been suggested as a Upgrade. The truth is no matter who comes in. we still need better Blocking up front (especially IMO by the TEs) and we need a Run game to lean on for any of these QBs. None are going to be good as the focal point as a QB. So i would rather give Mitch the shot to prove with a better Run game to lean on he can be average or better than commiting to guys who are basically proven the same thing Mitch is.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  5. #4565
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    You fooled me. I had no idea what point you were making other than to ridicule/dismiss the other side of an argument you were on.

    If you're concerned the price is gonna be too high that's all you have to say and we'd be in complete agreement.
    I guess my point is thereís really no great, realistic options, and giving Mitch at least a few games and signing Dalton/Keenum is really the smartest play both short and long term when you take emotion and frustration out of it. If there were better and more realistic options available, Iíd say go for it. If the bears were in a position to draft Burrow or even tua Iíd say go for it. The problem is, thereís not a lot of options out there. Carrís price tag (picks ANd cap) isnít worth it. Brady gonna cost a ton. Would he want to play in Chicago and get in on club dub? I donít really see him liking that environment honestly. Rivers probably going to a warm weather team.

    Again, not a lot of good options. You let Mitch compete with a Dalton/Keenum, fix the damn run game, and reload in 2021. Always seemed pretty obvious to me, but thatís just my opinion.

  6. #4566
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    Why should we assume it's going to take multiple picks to land Derek Carr?

    If that's his market then you pass, but if you can get him for a future 3 or something like that, then do it. I could probably be talked into using one of the 2's this year, but I'd rather not go that route.

  7. #4567
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    For Anyone Who thinks CARR is the Answer and solves all your problems. Just a Quick stat i would like to bring up for you to directly compare him to Mitch

    Carr in 2016 vs 2017

    in 2016, Carr went 12-3-0 in 15 games. had a 63.8% completion %. 267.2 YPG Total. and was in the MVP Conversation

    So What Happened in 2017.... Well he dropped about 30 YPG Passing. Went 6-9-0 and was nowhere near the MVP Candidate he was in 2016.



    Mitch in 2018 vs 2019

    in 2018 Mitch went 11-3..... had a 66.6% completion % 260.3 YPG total..... and we were in the Hunt

    And as we all know in 2019.... He dipped.... alot

    But is there any Similarity between the two and their struggles. Well Actually there kinda is.

    Jack Del Rio in 2016 had the 11th most rushing attempts. 6th most rushing yards. and 6th most rushing TDs... But in 2017 That Also dipped dramatically to 30th in attempts.... and 25th in yards. Basically Putting the offense on the Back of Carr instead of Having him run it with or even perhaps behind a good run game.

    Matt Nagy on the other hand in 2018 was 6th in attempts..... 11th in yards and 7th in Rushing TDs... But as with Carr in 2017........ Nagys offense struggled to run the ball in 2019. droping to 20th in attempts 27th in yards and 28th in rushing TDS.

    So as you can see. Carr as with Mitch. they both are not as good if the running game can not at least be set up. Thats why to me I want to give Mitch a shot with a running game again as opposed to pivoting to a guy who is proven (to me at least) not to be able to be the QB who can drive an offense. Carr Might be Better. Even better than Mitch is with a running game. But is it worth pivoting picks for him if Mitch can be 90%... maybe even 100
    % of what carr can be in the same situation. Personally I would like to see so. Because despite some thinking carr is the Answer. I just dont think he is any more so than any other Average QB. The fact is you need to fix the Run game anyway for any of them to have success.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  8. #4568
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    I guess my point is thereís really no great, realistic options, and giving Mitch at least a few games and signing Dalton/Keenum is really the smartest play both short and long term when you take emotion and frustration out of it. If there were better and more realistic options available, Iíd say go for it. If the bears were in a position to draft Burrow or even tua Iíd say go for it. The problem is, thereís not a lot of options out there. Carrís price tag (picks ANd cap) isnít worth it. Brady gonna cost a ton. Would he want to play in Chicago and get in on club dub? I donít really see him liking that environment honestly. Rivers probably going to a warm weather team.

    Again, not a lot of good options. You let Mitch compete with a Dalton/Keenum, fix the damn run game, and reload in 2021. Always seemed pretty obvious to me, but thatís just my opinion.
    It's probably the most likely thing to happen. I don't know if it is the smartest thing. If they can get Carr for a reasonable price, I think there's a good chance it's their best move. There's plenty of money if they get creative. It would suck to lose a 2nd and my guess is any other picks would be future picks, but I think the upgrade to the QB position could go a long way. If they play their cards right, they can fix the QB and fix the running game.

    I just don't get the point of being completely dismissive is all. It's fine to think this stuff won't happen, I don't think it will either, but why criticize just the thought of it? It's not like it's impossible. It's just something that's an outside chance.

  9. #4569
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Why should we assume it's going to take multiple picks to land Derek Carr?

    If that's his market then you pass, but if you can get him for a future 3 or something like that, then do it. I could probably be talked into using one of the 2's this year, but I'd rather not go that route.
    I think Somebody trades more for Carr than a future 3rd. Maybe not.... But I could see a handful of teams give the nod to him.

    Indy.. Tampa.... Carolina..... LA Chargers.... Hell I could see Tennessee doing it if they thought he would be close or better than Tannahill (I think this is arguable personally) for a cheaper price. IDK what Tannahill will command but I would be skeptical to give him 30 mil a year. And If Brady was to leave you could throw NE into that group as well. I mean its pretty easy to argue you would take Carr over most of the FA QB though.

    But One think I think most will forget.... if the Raiders dont have a better option at QB (Brady is likely the only option..... I dont think the Raiders trade Carr at all.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  10. #4570
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    I just can't see Tennessee moving on from Tannehill after that season. He was always a high ceiling, low floor type of prospect. The possibility of last season not being a fluke would be far too enticing imo. 2nd full season in the offense, put some more talent around him, make another run at it.

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  11. #4571
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    I don't think there's any way in hell Oakland takes anything less than a 2nd round pick. Most likely, they would want more. He's an above average starting QB. May not be elite top 10 guy that could carry a team by himself, but he's pretty damned good and on a reasonable contract. They may get a 1st, but I don't see them taking anything less than a 2nd this year or some combo of future picks.

  12. #4572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    For Anyone Who thinks CARR is the Answer and solves all your problems. Just a Quick stat i would like to bring up for you to directly compare him to Mitch

    Carr in 2016 vs 2017

    in 2016, Carr went 12-3-0 in 15 games. had a 63.8% completion %. 267.2 YPG Total. and was in the MVP Conversation

    So What Happened in 2017.... Well he dropped about 30 YPG Passing. Went 6-9-0 and was nowhere near the MVP Candidate he was in 2016.



    Mitch in 2018 vs 2019

    in 2018 Mitch went 11-3..... had a 66.6% completion % 260.3 YPG total..... and we were in the Hunt

    And as we all know in 2019.... He dipped.... alot

    But is there any Similarity between the two and their struggles. Well Actually there kinda is.

    Jack Del Rio in 2016 had the 11th most rushing attempts. 6th most rushing yards. and 6th most rushing TDs... But in 2017 That Also dipped dramatically to 30th in attempts.... and 25th in yards. Basically Putting the offense on the Back of Carr instead of Having him run it with or even perhaps behind a good run game.

    Matt Nagy on the other hand in 2018 was 6th in attempts..... 11th in yards and 7th in Rushing TDs... But as with Carr in 2017........ Nagys offense struggled to run the ball in 2019. droping to 20th in attempts 27th in yards and 28th in rushing TDS.

    So as you can see. Carr as with Mitch. they both are not as good if the running game can not at least be set up. Thats why to me I want to give Mitch a shot with a running game again as opposed to pivoting to a guy who is proven (to me at least) not to be able to be the QB who can drive an offense. Carr Might be Better. Even better than Mitch is with a running game. But is it worth pivoting picks for him if Mitch can be 90%... maybe even 100
    % of what carr can be in the same situation. Personally I would like to see so. Because despite some thinking carr is the Answer. I just dont think he is any more so than any other Average QB. The fact is you need to fix the Run game anyway for any of them to have success.
    Wait a minute, so you're saying a run game matters? GTFO.

  13. #4573
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Why should we assume it's going to take multiple picks to land Derek Carr?

    If that's his market then you pass, but if you can get him for a future 3 or something like that, then do it. I could probably be talked into using one of the 2's this year, but I'd rather not go that route.
    Only way I would trade a two for Carr is if the Bears get a mid-rd pick back from the Raiders, otherwise, the Bears better not give up more than a 3rd (at best) for him.
    Screw sabermetics.

  14. #4574
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    Dec 2008
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    35,285
    Biggs had a Q&A in the Tribune and mentioned somebody that I hadn't seen before. I know nothing of Nate Sudfeld, but sounds meh

    Is that Nate Sudfeld, 26, who is heading into free agency a year after the Eagles secured him with a second-round tender as a restricted free agent? New Bears quarterbacks coach John DeFilippo was credited with helping develop Sudfeld in Philadelphia, and he could be viewed as a quarterback with upside.

    ďIím telling you there is a reason why the Eagles held on to Nate, and thatís because heís going to be a really, really good football player,Ē DeFilippo told phillyvoice.com two years ago after leaving to become the Vikings offensive coordinator. ďWhy do you think other teams wanted him? Against the Dallas (starters), Nate played fantastic. That kid is going to be a really, really good football player. Heís a really good football player right now. But I am telling you, that kid has a chance to be a really good football player.Ē
    https://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...l#icb-cachebot

    Chicago Bears #23
    Kyle "Cheetah" Fuller

  15. #4575
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    Nov 2006
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    He sucks.

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