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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Good point. If you spend big on a TE, while still paying Burton, you may take yourself out of the QB market altogether.

    I'd rather draft one and spend that money elsewhere.
    lets be real we are not in any sort of QB market anyway. the daydream we have money to sign a startable QB needs to stop. we cant afford the 10 mil a TE might cost but somehow we will afford the 20-25 mil a starting QB right?


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  2. #77
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    side note..... Eric Bieniemy seems to be staying with the cheifs which could open the door for Mike Kafka

    I dont really have any hope he adds anything new..... but i don't like Ragone so adding Kafka might at least add a new QB voice.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    lets be real we are not in any sort of QB market anyway. the daydream we have money to sign a startable QB needs to stop. we cant afford the 10 mil a TE might cost but somehow we will afford the 20-25 mil a starting QB right?
    After cuts the problem isnít money; the problem is how to best spend that money. CHI could sign a solid FA QB - at least competition for Mitch. Spending another 10M on a TE is simply not viewed as a good investment by most.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #79
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    I seriously doubt they're spending $10M AAV on a TE, at least not this offseason. If they spend anywhere it's probably QB & RG, maybe an edge guy too. I'd expect TE, CB, S, and another pass rusher in the draft, QB maybe, but I'm not counting on it with limited draft capital.

    Anyway, there's definitely a way to create space for a QB and more with the right cuts. Just go to Spotrac or Over the Cap and you can find close to $50M in cap space by just cutting Floyd, Prince, and Gabriel. Add in a post June 1 cut of Leno and there's another $8M.
    Last edited by DamnGoat; 01-10-2020 at 06:08 PM.

  5. #80
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    Yeah, QB is a bigger need than a TE. A good QB can get something out of Burton/Shaheen. Right now, I'm not even sure Trubisky can even start for an XFL team, much less a team like the Bears. QB must be a priority.
    Screw sabermetics.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach100 View Post
    After cuts the problem isnít money; the problem is how to best spend that money. CHI could sign a solid FA QB - at least competition for Mitch. Spending another 10M on a TE is simply not viewed as a good investment by most.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    the way i look at it is simple. Shaheen is probably not the answer and Burton clearly isnt. whether its mitch this year or (insert draft pick or FA signing) next year at QB TE has to be addressed for whatever QB we have if we are sticking with Nagy.

    I mean you tell me is there going to be a better TE available than Henry or Hooper next year. if you are like me and truely beleive these guys to be top 5-10 TEs then you sign them now to Help Mitch or whatever QB is our guy next year.

    either way between now and next year we need a solution at TE. and i dont beleive you can count on anyone we have or anyone we might draft to solve the issue and thats why im all for go in now.

    and lets please not pretend Kittle is going anywhere.

    I just dont beleive you should let Burton prevent you from getting a TE who can change how this offense is run...... for whatever QB you want to beleive is our future.

    and as Far as FA QB..... i dont deny I want somebody........ but nobody is coming here and solving our problems unless we completly use all cap space on a Brees ..... Brady .... or maybe Rivers/Winston. I mean I would rather personally trade for Fitzmagic or go Cheapo with a Keenum or Moriota. As far as Im concerned I still think Mitch will be our starter. I just don't see a sure fire option we can afford.


    I mean the way I look at it is simple.

    Would you rather sign Hunter Henry or Austin Hopper for 10 mil per and Lock down TE for the next 5 years

    or Pay IDK..... Phillip Rivers 25+ mil for The back half and end of his carear to Hopefully salvage an offense he isnt even really built for.


    I mean I think there is surely a posibility for the price of a Solid starting QB you can end up with a Starting TE and a solid Backup/Competitive QB like Keenum
    Last edited by Kyben36; 01-10-2020 at 11:30 PM.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    the way i look at it is simple. Shaheen is probably not the answer and Burton clearly isnt. whether its mitch this year or (insert draft pick or FA signing) next year at QB TE has to be addressed for whatever QB we have if we are sticking with Nagy.

    I mean you tell me is there going to be a better TE available than Henry or Hooper next year. if you are like me and truely beleive these guys to be top 5-10 TEs then you sign them now to Help Mitch or whatever QB is our guy next year.

    either way between now and next year we need a solution at TE. and i dont beleive you can count on anyone we have or anyone we might draft to solve the issue and thats why im all for go in now.

    and lets please not pretend Kittle is going anywhere.

    I just dont beleive you should let Burton prevent you from getting a TE who can change how this offense is run...... for whatever QB you want to beleive is our future.

    and as Far as FA QB..... i dont deny I want somebody........ but nobody is coming here and solving our problems unless we completly use all cap space on a Brees ..... Brady .... or maybe Rivers/Winston. I mean I would rather personally trade for Fitzmagic or go Cheapo with a Keenum or Moriota. As far as Im concerned I still think Mitch will be our starter. I just don't see a sure fire option we can afford.


    I mean the way I look at it is simple.

    Would you rather sign Hunter Henry or Austin Hopper for 10 mil per and Lock down TE for the next 5 years

    or Pay IDK..... Phillip Rivers 25+ mil for The back half and end of his carear to Hopefully salvage an offense he isnt even really built for.
    Winston

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBear View Post
    Winston
    There is a reason i Said "OR MAYBE". Personally i dont think Either Winston or Rivers Solves our QB better than Mitch.

    The only guys who could would be Brady..... Brees or Dak and Dak ends up Taged IMO.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  9. #84
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    You might as well throw ten million out the window if you're signing Henry.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    I only said what I said about Tape Never Lies because it was brought up as highlighting poor offensive line play.

    It's not easy to know why they're not good at run blocking. Talent level, coaching, and the other pieces involved in the offense all matter too (particularly QB play). It's easy to sit on the run and make things a nightmare for the run blocking when you don't respect the QB. I think the offensive line has shown themselves to be relatively talented throughout the years (Leno, Massie, and Whitehair have all been average or better most of their careers and Daniels was a 2nd round pick). That leaves it up to coaching problems and QB play as the most likely factors. I believe the blame for their struggles lies somewhere in the middle. Nagy isn't scheming correctly, and there may be genuine fundamental problems in the preparation, and Mitch definitely isn't a guy opposing defenses will respect.

    Context is everything here. Your original argument was that the line makes it hard to evaluate Mitch/Nagy. I would argue on the contrary, Mitch/Nagy make it hard to assess the offensive line. Most of those guys have a track record of moderate success. Mitch/Nagy do not.
    I'm sorry, but Massie has been at best average throughout his time with the Bears. There have been quarters of the year or more where he has played below average. He is a mixed bag between average and below. Leno was not good until last year. I think a lot of that was covered up by Trubisky's ability to escape pressure (last year he was exceptional at it, this year he was not good at escaping). That offensive line would have looked far worse last year with Chase in, or a QB not as mobile.

    Trubs has his faults, but too many people are putting too much of the failures on him. Why can't all the factors of bad oline, wrs dropping balls on key third downs, qb overthrows, qb missed reads (which who knows how bad the reads actually were without knowing the concept of the play or the expected progressions for the qb. Nagy is creative and has a bunch of tricks up his sleeve), bad playcalling, bad situational football, bad oline (many people argue that it starts in the trenches), etc. It all comes together as one big picture. Could Nagy's playcalling look better with a Brady, probably. Could Mitch look better with Harbaugh calling plays, probably. Would Mitch's stats look better and could they have theoretically scored more points had wrs not dropped so many balls which ended up killing drives, yes. Same with the crucial penalties at key times killing drives. Same with Cohen always running to the sideline. Maybe the extra yard or two he could have fought for could keep a drive going. There was a lot wrong this year on offense. I think anybody who knows football will say its a game of inches. So all of these things matter. Its not the QB, the head coach, the personnel solely, it's all of them together. We have some talent. Some of these guys can play, they need to focus. For Mitch, replace focus with confidence (He has the tools and approach to be great, he needs the confidence and to stop overthinking. It's my own personal opinion that those are what have been holding back his consistency). Where we need talent is LT, RT, RG, TE (or a healthy Burton which cant be counted on).

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubsforlife View Post
    I'm sorry, but Massie has been at best average throughout his time with the Bears. There have been quarters of the year or more where he has played below average. He is a mixed bag between average and below. Leno was not good until last year. I think a lot of that was covered up by Trubisky's ability to escape pressure (last year he was exceptional at it, this year he was not good at escaping). That offensive line would have looked far worse last year with Chase in, or a QB not as mobile.

    Trubs has his faults, but too many people are putting too much of the failures on him. Why can't all the factors of bad oline, wrs dropping balls on key third downs, qb overthrows, qb missed reads (which who knows how bad the reads actually were without knowing the concept of the play or the expected progressions for the qb. Nagy is creative and has a bunch of tricks up his sleeve), bad playcalling, bad situational football, bad oline (many people argue that it starts in the trenches), etc. It all comes together as one big picture. Could Nagy's playcalling look better with a Brady, probably. Could Mitch look better with Harbaugh calling plays, probably. Would Mitch's stats look better and could they have theoretically scored more points had wrs not dropped so many balls which ended up killing drives, yes. Same with the crucial penalties at key times killing drives. Same with Cohen always running to the sideline. Maybe the extra yard or two he could have fought for could keep a drive going. There was a lot wrong this year on offense. I think anybody who knows football will say its a game of inches. So all of these things matter. Its not the QB, the head coach, the personnel solely, it's all of them together. We have some talent. Some of these guys can play, they need to focus. For Mitch, replace focus with confidence (He has the tools and approach to be great, he needs the confidence and to stop overthinking. It's my own personal opinion that those are what have been holding back his consistency). Where we need talent is LT, RT, RG, TE (or a healthy Burton which cant be counted on).
    There's been a few of us saying the same thing, but we've been shot down each and every time.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by toovey107 View Post
    You might as well throw ten million out the window if you're signing Henry.
    I like him, but yeah, he's never going to stay healthy. Reminds me of Eiffert in that sense.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by I don't care. View Post
    There's been a few of us saying the same thing, but we've been shot down each and every time.
    Because the arguments don't hold much weight. At a certain point you can only make so many excuses to justify his poor play.

    He's not the only QB with below average pass protection, receivers dropping balls, or questionable coaching.

    If you don't believe he's the biggest problem then I really question what you're seeing that gives you any hope.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    I like him, but yeah, he's never going to stay healthy. Reminds me of Eiffert in that sense.
    Just what we need- another TE who's injury prone and overpaid.

    Ebron is a no brainer if the money is right on a short term deal. Otherwise, you scrape the barrel with Maxxx Williams types/mid round pick and hope Burton comes back healthy.

    There's only so much you can do with our cap space, and we're pretty hamstrung there.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Because the arguments don't hold much weight. At a certain point you can only make so many excuses to justify his poor play.

    He's not the only QB with below average pass protection, receivers dropping balls, or questionable coaching.

    If you don't believe he's the biggest problem then I really question what you're seeing that gives you any hope.
    As I've stated multiple times, Mitch was drafted too high for his experience. The kid shows flashes of great play, but he's not consistent.

    If he would have been drafted in the 4th round, there would be more patience with him. Because he was drafted 2nd overall, the expectation is high. This isn't his fault, it's Pace's fault. The kid was booed the first time he went out in public in Chicago. The kid never had a chance with many Bears Fans.

    I want him to succeed just because of the draft pics that were given up to draft him.

    I'm not the only fan that holds this thought on Mitch, but I will admit we're the minority here in this forum.

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