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  1. #4156
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    I think our offense relies heavily on tight ends; We have enough talent between Robinson/Miller/Gabriel/Cohen/Montgomery/Wims/Patterson to at least try to adjust. Considering Burton can't get healthy and Shaheen is the worst ever.

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    Correct.
    Last edited by blams; 02-12-2020 at 02:46 PM.

  2. #4157
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Yeah hopefully. Pretty sure he was aware he had trash TEs. Kind of baffling how he continued to use them so much and seemingly couldnít adapt whatsoever.
    I think its clear he realized we needed help because last year during the draft we had a few guys we looked at despite honestly not personally feeling like it was a big need. obviously after the season its clear he knew more than me.

    But IDK how you adapt more. I mean Looking at snap counts alone

    the QBs played 1091 combined offensive snaps.

    The TEs combined for 1121

    Basically every team has 1 TE on the feild for at least most of their plays.... maybe barring like Arizona who runs 4 WR sets most of the time. Unless you rewrite your whole playbook to run WRs instead of TEs.... im unsure how you adapt mid season.


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  3. #4158
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    I guess I don't understand why you don't try Patterson at the TE position. He might do ok. Bad blocking , but a matchup nightmare as a receiver.

    I know it isn't madden though.

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  4. #4159
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    2020 Offseason Thread

    He could have ran more 4 WR sets and 1 TE sets. Also could have tried Patterson or wims at TE. Thereís things he could have done or tried since it was obvious the TE group was beyond worthless. Why be so adamant on playing 2 trash TEs as often as he did when there were other options he could have tried?




    Same thing in terms of his predictive ness in regards to personnel. Everyone knows when mont is in its likely to be a run. Why not use him in the passing game more? All off season we heard about his route running and hands. Why wasnít he on the field more in favor of Cohen who was primarily used as a WR, which teams also knew. Thereís a lot that could have been done, adjusted, or tried out that simply was not done.

    When your QB sucks, your OL cant run block, was not physical, TE group was pitiful, and the team played undisciplined, those are major foundational problems to any team or offense. I would have liked Nagy to have tried something different other than continue to bang his head on the table. There were avenues worth exploring that werenít. The smoke at the beginning of the year was that teams figured out Nagy and the team proceeded to regress literally across the board. Ummm.....thatís a problem lol.

    The whole dissection of who deserves the most blame is stupid. I donít care who shoulders the biggest blame, I care about the clear and obvious problems the team had and what can be done about them and the overall lack of adjustments. So Mitch sucks and was a major part of the problem, great. Why are so many people brushing off the major holes in the ship because Trubisky is bad? Name a successful team that is undisciplined, canít run the ball, plays without physicality, and is predictable? Oh yeah....not a legit TE that took the field. There is no successful team with those problems barring a generational QB. And even then it wouldnít be enough to contend for a SB.

  5. #4160
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    I guess I don't understand why you don't try Patterson at the TE position. He might do ok. Bad blocking , but a matchup nightmare as a receiver.

    I know it isn't madden though.

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    Well.... I think there were some major problems blocking regardless of if you want to believe the TAPE NEVER LIES series..... the TES could not hit a block time and time again. Sure you could have ran Patterson at TE.... But to me its basically the same argument of Jordan Howard in this offense.... where your telegraphing your play calls.


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  6. #4161
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    He could have ran more 4 WR sets and 1 TE sets. Also could have tried Patterson or wims at TE. Thereís things he could have done or tried since it was obvious the TE group was beyond worthless. Why be so adamant on playing 2 trash TEs as often as he did when there were other options he could have tried?




    Same thing in terms of his predictive ness in regards to personnel. Everyone knows when mont is in its likely to be a run. Why not use him in the passing game more? All off season we heard about his route running and hands. Why wasnít he on the field more in favor of Cohen who was primarily used as a WR, which teams also knew. Thereís a lot that could have been done, adjusted, or tried out that simply was not done.

    When your QB sucks, your OL cant run block, was not physical, TE group was pitiful, and the team played undisciplined, those are major foundational problems to any team or offense. I would have liked Nagy to have tried something different other than continue to bang his head on the table. There were avenues worth exploring that werenít. The smoke at the beginning of the year was that teams figured out Nagy and the team proceeded to regress literally across the board. Ummm.....thatís a problem lol.

    The whole dissection of who deserves the most blame is stupid. I donít care who shoulders the biggest blame, I care about the clear and obvious problems the team had and what can be done about them and the overall lack of adjustments. So Mitch sucks and was a major part of the problem, great. Why are so many people brushing off the major holes in the ship because Trubisky is bad? Name a successful team that is undisciplined, canít run the ball, plays without physicality, and is predictable? Oh yeah....not a legit TE that took the field. There is no successful team with those problems barring a generational QB. And even then it wouldnít be enough to contend for a SB.
    The truth is like Blams kinda mentions.... this isnt madden. Putting Wims or Paterson out there likely just changes up the defense to play more Nickle or dime to cover them (thus the idea of mismatches is kinda irrelevant) . Yes you can line them up in the TE position.... but what you also have to remember is this.... these guys are not told to know the TE position in the offseason or expected to know all the concepts there..... There are also major issues when sticking a guy who is 220 vs 240-250 on the line of scrimmage to block... in either run or pass situations. And if you want to argue you put them out there one passing situations... your basically telegraphing your play calls (which you mention with Montgomery) which is another reason the offense could struggle.

    Alslo. as far as the playbook, im unsure how much of Nagys offense (which uses TEs alot) has 4 WR sets designed into it. Basically limiting yourself down to a Handful of play calls due to personnel isnt going to help the offense much either.

    I agree with most of what you say after though. the Blame needs to be looked at throughout. Hopefully the OL and TE coach can do some major good. But I also dont know if I can expect Nagy to reinvent the offense after 4 or so weeks and expect some miraculous change either. They did try moving Whitehair back..... they tried running more under center a game or two. But there was not going to be a single thing IMO that changes everything that was wrong. The Line was bad...... the TEs dont deserve to be rostered. and the QB didnt make progress. NO matter how you rearrange the paces There wasnt a Fix to these issues mid season.


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  7. #4162
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    2020 Offseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    The truth is like Blams kinda mentions.... this isnt madden. Putting Wims or Paterson out there likely just changes up the defense to play more Nickle or dime to cover them (thus the idea of mismatches is kinda irrelevant) . Yes you can line them up in the TE position.... but what you also have to remember is this.... these guys are not told to know the TE position in the offseason or expected to know all the concepts there..... There are also major issues when sticking a guy who is 220 vs 240-250 on the line of scrimmage to block... in either run or pass situations. And if you want to argue you put them out there one passing situations... your basically telegraphing your play calls (which you mention with Montgomery) which is another reason the offense could struggle.

    Alslo. as far as the playbook, im unsure how much of Nagys offense (which uses TEs alot) has 4 WR sets designed into it. Basically limiting yourself down to a Handful of play calls due to personnel isnt going to help the offense much either.

    I agree with most of what you say after though. the Blame needs to be looked at throughout. Hopefully the OL and TE coach can do some major good. But I also dont know if I can expect Nagy to reinvent the offense after 4 or so weeks and expect some miraculous change either. They did try moving Whitehair back..... they tried running more under center a game or two. But there was not going to be a single thing IMO that changes everything that was wrong. The Line was bad...... the TEs dont deserve to be rostered. and the QB didnt make progress. NO matter how you rearrange the paces There wasnt a Fix to these issues mid season.
    Iím not suggesting run Patterson or wims at TE often but try it out. Throw it in. Last year Nagy had a bunch of trick plays. This year there wasnít much creativity. His personnel packages gave a lot of way. If your 2 TE sets arenít worked as much as your single TE sets (granted, different sample sizes), why not try more single TE sets at the very least?

    Also, i would hope Nagy has more than just a couple of play calls for 4 WR sets. Especially since four WRs are better than your two TEs. He knew who his TEs were going jnto the season. Hell, it was his idea to move Sowell to TE lol.

    Also, Miller snd Montgomery should have been on the field much more than they were. Traded up for a duel threat running back but pretty much only used him as a rusher. So not only did the OL suck at run blocking, but when mont was in the game, the defense knew a run was likely coming.
    Last edited by KG2TB; 02-12-2020 at 06:30 PM.

  8. #4163
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Iím not suggesting run Patterson or wims at TE often but try it out. Throw it in. Last year Nagy had a bunch of trick plays. This year there wasnít much creativity. His personnel packages gave a lot of way. If your 2 TE sets arenít worked as much as your single TE sets (granted, different sample sizes), why not try more single TE sets at the very least?

    Also, i would hope Nagy has more than just a couple of play calls for 4 WR sets. Especially since four WRs are better than your two TEs. He knew who his TEs were going jnto the season. Hell, it was his idea to move Sowell to TE lol.
    most playbooks outside or Arizona whos whole offense is centered around it are set up to run 4 WR sets consistantly. to start limiting yourself down to it is taking probably 60-70% minimum of your playbook out due to personnel. thats just ill conceived to tell yourself to limit yourself down that much because of it.

    and I personally wonder how much of the tricks and misdirection got elliminated because of how it failed early. I recall early season sticking Paterson in the backfeild on 3rd and 1 like this was going to trick people... but it didn't.
    Shortly after Paterson who was going to be a gadget player was nothing more than a receiver...... Similar with Cohen


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  9. #4164
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    https://twitter.com/profootballtalk/...295520256?s=21






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  10. #4165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    most playbooks outside or Arizona whos whole offense is centered around it are set up to run 4 WR sets consistantly. to start limiting yourself down to it is taking probably 60-70% minimum of your playbook out due to personnel. thats just ill conceived to tell yourself to limit yourself down that much because of it.

    and I personally wonder how much of the tricks and misdirection got elliminated because of how it failed early. I recall early season sticking Paterson in the backfeild on 3rd and 1 like this was going to trick people... but it didn't.
    Shortly after Paterson who was going to be a gadget player was nothing more than a receiver...... Similar with Cohen
    I never said run 4 WR consistently lol...but I donít see why they couldnít incorporate more of it overall, lowering the % of 2 TE sets. Nothing crazy drastic...but when one thing clearly isnít working, why not try more 4 WR sets and more single TE sets?

  11. #4166
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    I really hope these rumors of trading Mack for the redskins #2 pick is really just a rumor


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  12. #4167
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    Quote Originally Posted by urlachermess View Post
    I really hope these rumors of trading Mack for the redskins #2 pick is really just a rumor


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    Iím sure it is. Who would the bears get at #2 anyways?

  13. #4168
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    Quote Originally Posted by urlachermess View Post
    I really hope these rumors of trading Mack for the redskins #2 pick is really just a rumor


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    Where have you seen that rumor?

  14. #4169
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    Quote Originally Posted by urlachermess View Post
    I really hope these rumors of trading Mack for the redskins #2 pick is really just a rumor


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    Trading Mack just to get capital to move up to #2 and draft, I would assume, Chase Young, is so mindbogglingly stupid that Pace should simply resign if he did that series of moves.
    Screw sabermetics.

  15. #4170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stunner View Post
    https://twitter.com/profootballtalk/...295520256?s=21






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    this feels like a joke.....


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