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  1. #6991
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  4. #6994
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    Bored so I figured I would ask this hypothetical.

    Worst case scenario for the bears this year happens and Mitch Sucks and Foles is either injured or not the QB we hoped he would be. (i dont expect this but it could happen)

    Would You trade for Dak........ (at least a 1st IMO maybe more)

    Would you not trade for But Pay if he became available in FA (likely 35-40 mil)

    or would you you rather just use our First round pick on a QB?

    Personally I love Dak.... think he could easily solve the QB problems. But the cap space in either scenario is hard. We have an estimated 30 mil and that could be added to if you move on from some guys.... But that 30 mil is wothout Robinson Resigned... Cohen also a FA (though im torn on letting him walk) Not to mention the year after we have alot of decisions to make (Roquan potentially.... Fuller and Akiem.... Leno Daniels Miller all set to be FA)

    I think I would prefer to bet on a Rok QB and stick with Robinson.... however I could surely see an argument saying Go Get Dak.... make one final run before the defense is likely to begin to self destruct as Akiem gets older and maybe paying Fuller isnt the best idea when he is 30.


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  5. #6995
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    Bored so I figured I would ask this hypothetical.

    Worst case scenario for the bears this year happens and Mitch Sucks and Foles is either injured or not the QB we hoped he would be. (i dont expect this but it could happen)

    Would You trade for Dak........ (at least a 1st IMO maybe more)

    Would you not trade for But Pay if he became available in FA (likely 35-40 mil)

    or would you you rather just use our First round pick on a QB?

    Personally I love Dak.... think he could easily solve the QB problems. But the cap space in either scenario is hard. We have an estimated 30 mil and that could be added to if you move on from some guys.... But that 30 mil is wothout Robinson Resigned... Cohen also a FA (though im torn on letting him walk) Not to mention the year after we have alot of decisions to make (Roquan potentially.... Fuller and Akiem.... Leno Daniels Miller all set to be FA)

    I think I would prefer to bet on a Rok QB
    and stick with Robinson.... however I could surely see an argument saying Go Get Dak.... make one final run before the defense is likely to begin to self destruct as Akiem gets older and maybe paying Fuller isnt the best idea when he is 30.
    Can you honestly trust this Bear's front office to recognize the right QB to draft? On the other hand, Dak has always been surrounded by one of the best OLs in football along with a stud RB. Although I suspect he would do better than Mitch with our OL, I'm not sure he produces as well in Chicago as he did in Dallas.
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  6. #6996
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cubs View Post
    Can you honestly trust this Bear's front office to recognize the right QB to draft? On the other hand, Dak has always been surrounded by one of the best OLs in football along with a stud RB. Although I suspect he would do better than Mitch with our OL, I'm not sure he produces as well in Chicago as he did in Dallas.
    I think it would be better to have Nagy get his guy and develop him under Foles than what we did with Mitch .... That said idk if i do trust them.....But IDK if i really want to pay Dak 40 35 to 40 mil.

    Side Note..... i think we are on the Fringe of becoming the Vikings. Obviously they had a similar situation... Good D.... QB deprived. they went and signed Cousins thinking it would make them contend and so far it hasnt worked out

    Im not saying he and dak would be the same.... As im not here to debate how good dak is or us vs the vikings..... but I wonder if the Vikings would not have been better off developing a guy. which could have let them keep q few more peices to compete. Especially since they seem to have transitioned into a run first team anyway
    Last edited by Kyben36; 07-13-2020 at 09:10 AM.


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  7. #6997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    Bored so I figured I would ask this hypothetical.

    Worst case scenario for the bears this year happens and Mitch Sucks and Foles is either injured or not the QB we hoped he would be. (i dont expect this but it could happen)

    Would You trade for Dak........ (at least a 1st IMO maybe more)

    Would you not trade for But Pay if he became available in FA (likely 35-40 mil)

    or would you you rather just use our First round pick on a QB?

    Personally I love Dak.... think he could easily solve the QB problems. But the cap space in either scenario is hard. We have an estimated 30 mil and that could be added to if you move on from some guys.... But that 30 mil is wothout Robinson Resigned... Cohen also a FA (though im torn on letting him walk) Not to mention the year after we have alot of decisions to make (Roquan potentially.... Fuller and Akiem.... Leno Daniels Miller all set to be FA)

    I think I would prefer to bet on a Rok QB and stick with Robinson.... however I could surely see an argument saying Go Get Dak.... make one final run before the defense is likely to begin to self destruct as Akiem gets older and maybe paying Fuller isnt the best idea when he is 30.
    This is silly. Cutler cost 2 firsts, 3rd, and Orton. I don't think highly of Dak, but saying he will cost a first and maybe more is silly to begin with.

    I wouldn't trade for what we paid on Cutler nor pay him near Mahomes money.

    Much rather use our draft capital on a QB.

    I would also love Prescott on the Bears, but I wouldn't pay him as a top QB. He would solve our QB problems, but he's not elite. Not worth Mahomes money in free agency, and not worth our future drafts.

    Prescott has played his entire career with one of the best lines in football, mostly a great receiving core, and elite running backs. They still struggle offensively somehow lots of weeks.

    This whole argument just makes me so much more angry about how we handles the QB situation this offseason. Our defense is built this year to win. There were so many veteran QBs available who I think would have guaranteed us average to above average play on offense and we got Foles. Not saying Foles can't perform, not saying Mitch won't improve either. I think we could have been a serious contender with a proven, solid veteran like Dalton, Newton, Rivers, even Bridgewater.

  8. #6998
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds637 View Post
    This is silly. Cutler cost 2 firsts, 3rd, and Orton. I don't think highly of Dak, but saying he will cost a first and maybe more is silly to begin with.

    I wouldn't trade for what we paid on Cutler nor pay him near Mahomes money.

    Much rather use our draft capital on a QB.

    I would also love Prescott on the Bears, but I wouldn't pay him as a top QB. He would solve our QB problems, but he's not elite. Not worth Mahomes money in free agency, and not worth our future drafts.

    Prescott has played his entire career with one of the best lines in football, mostly a great receiving core, and elite running backs. They still struggle offensively somehow lots of weeks.

    This whole argument just makes me so much more angry about how we handles the QB situation this offseason. Our defense is built this year to win. There were so many veteran QBs available who I think would have guaranteed us average to above average play on offense and we got Foles. Not saying Foles can't perform, not saying Mitch won't improve either. I think we could have been a serious contender with a proven, solid veteran like Dalton, Newton, Rivers, even Bridgewater.
    So.... Let me start by saying i did say a 1st....maybe more.... but I think you have to recognize the circumstance too. Yes Jay cutler cost more.... But Jay cutler also was not in the heat of a contract battle for Top flight money (40 mil as to be reported) Obviously this whole scenario is based on next year and things not working this year..... and that would mean Dak has played one year on the tag (or potentially held out IDK). Obviously I recognize that Dak probably cost more than just a 1st..... But you also have to wonder who is giving up Multiple first and paying a QB 40 mil per year to lock him up y When if this scenario takes place its clear that Dallas wont pay him.... and if you wait a year You could Kirk Cousins him away from Dallas anyway who could loose him for NADA (comp pick potenitally which is max a 3rd)

    So IDK what the exact compensation is. You could easily argue more. But I think it would be seriously interesting to see if he did become available who is really forking over That Draft Capital and Cap space... To a guy who IMO may be a good QB.... But he surely isnt a franchise caliber guy. (some may want to debate this) I mean for the comparison to Cutler... Cutler was traded his 3rd season.... still had 3 years locked up in contract when trading for him (originally signed a 6 year 48 mil contract) so you had a sample size to test him out. You may argue you could test out dak on the Tag.... But Im not exactly sure how that works and what risk you put yourself at if this was his 2nd year taged (but with a seperate team) Could he then potentially walk for nothing? IDK

    I think its also a Bit Hypocritical for you to Come out and say NO way Dak only goes or only a 1st.... but also come out in the same post and say you both would not pay him.... and surely not worth future draft picks. So I think there would be real questions around the league what exactly trading for Dak would be worth. IF your comparing it strait to jay Cutler.... Sure he should be worth probably 3 1st. IF your comparing it to Cousins... You probably sit and wait for Dallas to not pay him and get him for Free. So there is a real grey area IMO.

    Side Note: IDK if i agree with your frustration when looking at those QBs. Rivers looked really bad last year and is on his last legs. Newton is just as injury prone if not more so due to style than Foles..... And hasn't been MVP Newton in years. And Teddy.... suposedly we made an attempt at teddy but he wanted guaruntees to start. Dalton is solid But also its not like teams were jumping at the bit to have him start.

    I mean I think it says alot when the Colts were trying to trade for Foles (offering a 5th reportedly which is why we coughed up a 4th) Days Before signing Rivers... and yet for some reasons nfl fans seem to think that Dalton (who could not find a starting job) Newton (who sat on the wire for weeks and may not be starting) and Rivers (who was 2nd option to foles) are some how superior as QBs. The only ones worth arguing are Tom Brady (who it doesnt feel ever was really coming here) and Bridgewater (who literally turned down our offer)

    And Honestly.... Looking at the current situation.... IM glad we didnt fork out a bunch of money to Bridgewater (I dont think he is going to be that good) with the current climate where im not even sure players have been able to meet correctly with coaching staff and players outside of private workouts.


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  9. #6999
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    No on Dak, especially given he is going to want a contract near Mahomes. My god, I don't want to pay a good QB, elite QB money.
    Screw sabermetics.

  10. #7000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefire View Post
    No on Dak, especially given he is going to want a contract near Mahomes. My god, I don't want to pay a good QB, elite QB money.
    Where do you draw the line though? If you follow that mentality then your team has to restart at QB every 4 years

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  11. #7001
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Where do you draw the line though? If you follow that mentality then your team has to restart at QB every 4 years

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    I know this may sound crazy..... But honestly im not sure this is a terrible idea. I know not many /any teams have tried it. But if you can get a young QB and surround him with Elite level tallent and then trade him for a first or 2 near the end of his deal and draft another one using those picks.... It would be interesting and easy to keep that team competing

    Obviously im not sure this ever happens. But especially in Daks case. Im honestly not sure how much better Dak is to Dalton..... Yes he is probably better. But nearly 30 mil better. IDK. Maybe i under rate Dak. But im honestly not sure us signing dak would be any diferent than the Vikings signing Cousins.


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  12. #7002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    I know this may sound crazy..... But honestly im not sure this is a terrible idea. I know not many /any teams have tried it. But if you can get a young QB and surround him with Elite level tallent and then trade him for a first or 2 near the end of his deal and draft another one using those picks.... It would be interesting and easy to keep that team competing

    Obviously im not sure this ever happens. But especially in Daks case. Im honestly not sure how much better Dak is to Dalton..... Yes he is probably better. But nearly 30 mil better. IDK. Maybe i under rate Dak. But im honestly not sure us signing dak would be any diferent than the Vikings signing Cousins.
    The issue I have is it takes an entire offense 2-3 seasons to really be running perfectly as a unit.

    I know it's best cap wise to win with a rookie QB contract...but it's hard to win without an impact QB. Your perspective certainly isn't crazy. It just isnt common that a Jimmy G has a chance to win.

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  13. #7003
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    The issue I have is it takes an entire offense 2-3 seasons to really be running perfectly as a unit.

    I know it's best cap wise to win with a rookie QB contract...but it's hard to win without an impact QB. Your perspective certainly isn't crazy. It just isnt common that a Jimmy G has a chance to win.

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    I understand the logic.... yet you see guys in college transfer and find success relatively quickly ..... i just think it would be a really interesting experiment to see. .. if you had a loaded OL....... Loaded Weapons. and you used rok contract RB and QB.... how the offense would fair. Run game should be good ...... and could u survive with an OK QB in year 1 and 2 while he develops and then make runs 3-5.

    Fwiw.... my hypotetical idea in this scenario is to allways Use those first from that QB to get another QB.... so your allways at least running a tallented QB who isnt a bum (hopefully)

    I mean serious question. Take the Bears D..... the Dallas Offensive Line. and receiving weapons... . and replace dak with say Jordan Love or even Dwane haskins. Yes year 1 might be rough ..... but i think your still a competitive Run first team with a good/great Defense. You can still be competitive with that rok QB (especially if you can land on some sort of gem) And if he develops into a good player you have a championship run....

    And I still think given the idea you trade away a QB too you could potentially move up and go get somebody too.


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  14. #7004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    So.... Let me start by saying i did say a 1st....maybe more.... but I think you have to recognize the circumstance too. Yes Jay cutler cost more.... But Jay cutler also was not in the heat of a contract battle for Top flight money (40 mil as to be reported) Obviously this whole scenario is based on next year and things not working this year..... and that would mean Dak has played one year on the tag (or potentially held out IDK). Obviously I recognize that Dak probably cost more than just a 1st..... But you also have to wonder who is giving up Multiple first and paying a QB 40 mil per year to lock him up y When if this scenario takes place its clear that Dallas wont pay him.... and if you wait a year You could Kirk Cousins him away from Dallas anyway who could loose him for NADA (comp pick potenitally which is max a 3rd)

    So IDK what the exact compensation is. You could easily argue more. But I think it would be seriously interesting to see if he did become available who is really forking over That Draft Capital and Cap space... To a guy who IMO may be a good QB.... But he surely isnt a franchise caliber guy. (some may want to debate this) I mean for the comparison to Cutler... Cutler was traded his 3rd season.... still had 3 years locked up in contract when trading for him (originally signed a 6 year 48 mil contract) so you had a sample size to test him out. You may argue you could test out dak on the Tag.... But Im not exactly sure how that works and what risk you put yourself at if this was his 2nd year taged (but with a seperate team) Could he then potentially walk for nothing? IDK

    I think its also a Bit Hypocritical for you to Come out and say NO way Dak only goes or only a 1st.... but also come out in the same post and say you both would not pay him.... and surely not worth future draft picks. So I think there would be real questions around the league what exactly trading for Dak would be worth. IF your comparing it strait to jay Cutler.... Sure he should be worth probably 3 1st. IF your comparing it to Cousins... You probably sit and wait for Dallas to not pay him and get him for Free. So there is a real grey area IMO.

    Side Note: IDK if i agree with your frustration when looking at those QBs. Rivers looked really bad last year and is on his last legs. Newton is just as injury prone if not more so due to style than Foles..... And hasn't been MVP Newton in years. And Teddy.... suposedly we made an attempt at teddy but he wanted guaruntees to start. Dalton is solid But also its not like teams were jumping at the bit to have him start.

    I mean I think it says alot when the Colts were trying to trade for Foles (offering a 5th reportedly which is why we coughed up a 4th) Days Before signing Rivers... and yet for some reasons nfl fans seem to think that Dalton (who could not find a starting job) Newton (who sat on the wire for weeks and may not be starting) and Rivers (who was 2nd option to foles) are some how superior as QBs. The only ones worth arguing are Tom Brady (who it doesnt feel ever was really coming here) and Bridgewater (who literally turned down our offer)

    And Honestly.... Looking at the current situation.... IM glad we didnt fork out a bunch of money to Bridgewater (I dont think he is going to be that good) with the current climate where im not even sure players have been able to meet correctly with coaching staff and players outside of private workouts.
    Sure, the circumstances are different. Money isn't what it was then. Your whole following scenarios are garbage conjecture. Dallas can just franchise him next year and why wouldn't they?

    Cutler was traded in his 3rd season by a team who decided he wasn't the future and got a great deal. Yea, we had 3 years to figure him out. But Dak completes 5% more passes and doesn't have nearly close to the turnovers Cutler had before we moved for him. Dak is much more proven at this point than Cutler was.

    Hypocritical, really? That's my opinion for only the Bears. There are 31 other teams out there. I've learned my lesson on QBs as a Bears fan. I would never pay contract or trade value for a guy like Dak, but I'd bet others would. This is all ridiculous, let's wait 2 years for the franchise tags to play out and plan a future around snagging him in FA.

    Side Note: I agree with you, Rivers didn't look great last year, but I don't think he's finished. Think he has more left than Manning did when he won the Superbowl. I'm not a Newton fan at all, just think a healthy Newton makes us more dangerous than a Foles. Not a big fan of Bridgewater either but I think he's a professional level QB. If the Bears believed he would have been better than Mitch but wouldn't guarantee him a starting role, that upsets me. Dalton, would have liked more than Foles by a mile. Steady veteran who normally stays healthy with this defense. There weren't many openings, and for what he was signed for, we should have brought him in even with Foles. We are a QB away IMO if the line is just decently improved. QB helps the line, especially a veteran.

    It definitely says something when the Colts wouldn't move off of a 5th to acquire Foles. Rivers wasn't the 2nd option to him, that's ludicrous conjecture. They were also in final negotiations with Rivers, Foles likely would have come in as the backup there but the Colts wouldn't move off a 5th. The Jags were willing to trade him in their division. What is this argument lol. Dalton couldn't find a job because there were none for him. He's an average+ QB who's 30+. Not much long term there but with the Bears, I would have been happy with his veteran consistency and presence. Newton, injury trouble and a reputation for being a semi douche. Think he offers a load of potential if healthy and focuses that Foles doesn't. I'm not convinced on Bridgewater either, but his money isn't crazy. On his current contract we'd be tied to him for 2 years. Foles his here for 3 years almost guaranteed and he isn't a long term answer which Teddy might have been. Now we are guaranteeing Foles 10 million a year in 2021 and 2022 to be maybe a bridge to a different QB
    Last edited by ds637; 07-14-2020 at 06:03 PM.

  15. #7005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    I know this may sound crazy..... But honestly im not sure this is a terrible idea. I know not many /any teams have tried it. But if you can get a young QB and surround him with Elite level tallent and then trade him for a first or 2 near the end of his deal and draft another one using those picks.... It would be interesting and easy to keep that team competing

    Obviously im not sure this ever happens. But especially in Daks case. Im honestly not sure how much better Dak is to Dalton..... Yes he is probably better. But nearly 30 mil better. IDK. Maybe i under rate Dak. But im honestly not sure us signing dak would be any diferent than the Vikings signing Cousins.
    Haha, dude I kind of agree with you.

    Bears QB history is garbage and so is our offensive coaching history. If we could secure a solid coaching staff who maximized the player they are provided with, this could work. Pump all the money into the line and defense.

    You would have to draft a QB in the first 2 rounds every year, and sometimes more than 1 a year. Think you could turn the franchise into a QB factory after that. Hire all top guys college kids work with over the summer and the top pro camp guys as well. Would be worth the investment.

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