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  1. #1
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    Initial Power Rankings for 2020


  2. #2
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    This list sucks.

    Mets are 18th? Behind the Dbacks, Cubs, and Phillies? Lulz.

    Twins are 4th??? Mega lulz. Twins wouldnít even win 85 games if they were in a good division.
    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumť

  3. #3
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    I buy into the Mets being a good team next year, but it's not that ludicrous to see them finish 18th behind all those teams.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    This list sucks.

    Mets are 18th? Behind the Dbacks, Cubs, and Phillies? Lulz.

    Twins are 4th??? Mega lulz. Twins wouldnít even win 85 games if they were in a good division.
    This post sucks.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    This post sucks.
    This guy sucks.


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    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumť

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    This guy ****s.


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    FTFY

    https://youtu.be/EecZ1CewRKw

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    I knew weíd get here eventually.


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    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumť

  8. #8
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    Instead of doing a hard list of 1-30, I'll tier them, because some teams are more close to each other than other groups


    Tier 1 - World Series Contenders - things have to go wrong for them to not be competitive all year
    Astros, Dodgers, Yankees

    Tier 2 - Close to World Series Contenders, and if a few things break right, they quickly are
    Rays, Nationals, A's, Braves, Twins

    Tier 3 - Should be in the playoff hunt most of the year
    Cards, Cubs, Indians, Brewers, D'Backs, Mets, Reds, Phillies, Red Sox

    Tier 4 - Should be around .500, could go a little each direction
    Angels, Rangers, White Sox, Padres

    Tier 5 - Improving, but not going to be competitive
    Giants, M's, Blue Jays, Rockies, Pirates

    Tier 6 - Tanking
    Tigers, O's, Marlins, Royals

    I won't argue if anyone wants to move a team up or down a tier, but I would argue two tier movements.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    This list sucks.

    Mets are 18th? Behind the Dbacks, Cubs, and Phillies? Lulz.

    Twins are 4th??? Mega lulz. Twins wouldnít even win 85 games if they were in a good division.
    Why do people think the Cubs are going to be bad?
    I don't know that the Mets are better than the Phillies
    Twins went 51-35 against non AL Central teams last year (.593% - good enough for a 96 win pace)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Why do people think the Cubs are going to be bad?
    I don't know that the Mets are better than the Phillies
    Twins went 51-35 against non AL Central teams last year (.593% - good enough for a 96 win pace)
    I just donít see them being anything more than an 80-85 win ball club.

    Their pitching is another year older and is pretty mediocre. Lester, Hendricks, Darvish and Quintana arenít what they once were.

    They still have a very nice offensive core but outside of their big three, they donít have anything special. Rizzo, Bryant and Baez are great players but even with their good seasons, it didnít help the Cubs. They also lose Castellanos bat and havenít made any upgrades this offseason. Their pen is also complete trash.

    Yes Iím biased but I donít think the Phillies are very good. Their pitching is hot garbage outside of Nola and Wheeler. Those two guys are good but guys like Eflin wouldnít even be the 5th starter on most playoff clubs, heís the Phillies #3. Their bullpen is also complete *******. The only thing that scares me is their offense, getting Didi, Cutch back, but I donít think Didi is much better than Cesar Hernandez - who they cut. Realmuto, Harper, Segura, Cutch, Didi and Hoskins make up a nice lineup but itís not enough to mitigate their horrible pitching imo.

    Twins Iíll probably concede that point. The AL Central was the worst division in baseball and the AL in general was very mediocre with barely half the league competing for a playoff spot. Twins have gotten worse IMO, they havenít fixed their rotation, and are going to have to deal with a competitive Cleveland and Chicago a lot more. I donít see them being much more than a 90 win club, last year was a fluke.

    Of course, a lot of what I say is contingent upon whether or not the balls are brought back to normal. If they are, I doubt a team like the Twins puts up offensive numbers anything close to what they did last year. I understand the postseason is a bit of a crapshoot but they couldnít even win a game against the Yankees, in what I thought was the most pathetic playoff series Iíve ever seen. I just canít see the Twins being as good as they were last year.


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    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumť

  11. #11
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    Initial Power Rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Instead of doing a hard list of 1-30, I'll tier them, because some teams are more close to each other than other groups


    Tier 1 - World Series Contenders - things have to go wrong for them to not be competitive all year
    Astros, Dodgers, Yankees

    Tier 2 - Close to World Series Contenders, and if a few things break right, they quickly are
    Rays, Nationals, A's, Braves, Twins

    Tier 3 - Should be in the playoff hunt most of the year
    Cards, Cubs, Indians, Brewers, D'Backs, Mets, Reds, Phillies, Red Sox

    Tier 4 - Should be around .500, could go a little each direction
    Angels, Rangers, White Sox, Padres

    Tier 5 - Improving, but not going to be competitive
    Giants, M's, Blue Jays, Rockies, Pirates

    Tier 6 - Tanking
    Tigers, O's, Marlins, Royals

    I won't argue if anyone wants to move a team up or down a tier, but I would argue two tier movements.
    Iíd adjust your list quite a bit. I donít think the Aís or Twins are anything near World Series contenders, and would be completely shocked if either team made it.

    Tier 1 (WS Contenders)- Yankees, Dodgers
    Tier 1B- Astros (letís see how good they are without the cheating)

    Tier 2 (close to WS contenders) - Braves, Nats, Rays,

    Tier 3 (playoff hunt and close to being close WS contenders) Cards, Mets, Indians, Twins

    Tier 4 (slightly above .500 teams that could very well make the playoffs) Dbacks, White Sox, Reds, Red Sox, Cubs

    Tier 5 (.500 teams that can go either way) Angels, Phillies, Rangers, Phillies, Brewers, Padres,

    Tier 6 (improving but not competitive) Blue Jays, Marlins

    Tier 7 (not improving and not competitive but also not quite tanking) Rockies, Pirates, Giants

    Tier 8 (tanking) Orioles, Tigers, Mariners, Royals


    Tier 6-8 is pretty interchangeable. I like what the Marlins have done and even though theyíre a last place club, theyíve improved at the very least.
    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumť

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Iíd adjust your list quite a bit. I donít think the Aís or Twins are anything near World Series contenders, and would be completely shocked if either team made it.

    Tier 1 (WS Contenders)- Yankees, Dodgers
    Tier 1B- Astros (letís see how good they are without the cheating)

    Tier 2 (close to WS contenders) - Braves, Nats, Rays,

    Tier 3 (playoff hunt and close to being close WS contenders) Cards, Mets, Indians, Twins

    Tier 4 (slightly above .500 teams that could very well make the playoffs) Dbacks, White Sox, Reds, Red Sox, Cubs

    Tier 5 (.500 teams that can go either way) Angels, Phillies, Rangers, Phillies, Brewers, Padres,

    Tier 6 (improving but not competitive) Blue Jays, Marlins

    Tier 7 (not improving and not competitive but also not quite tanking) Rockies, Pirates, Giants

    Tier 8 (tanking) Orioles, Tigers, Mariners, Royals


    Tier 6-8 is pretty interchangeable. I like what the Marlins have done and even though theyíre a last place club, theyíve improved at the very least.
    I see you split the Phillies into two teams and both in Tier 5. You think if you didnít split them they could be in tier 2?

    But seriously, I agree with your earlier assessment of the Phillies. Their SP is pretty hot garbage as I donít necessarily trust Nola and Wheeler as a great one two or even trust either of them on general. They got nothing in the BP. Their offense should be above average (disagree with Didi basically being a wash with Hernandez though).

    Thereís hope because of the offense but theyíll need some of their close to MLB pitching prospects to work out this year if they have any chance.

    The Mets... I disagree though. They arenít two tiers above the Phillies. What did they do to improve? Diaz and Cano were pretty bad last year and hard to see a turnaround. Maybe some of the young guys improve but not much changed from what they were last year. They do have a good potential with their SP and BP though.


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    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    I just donít see them being anything more than an 80-85 win ball club.

    Their pitching is another year older and is pretty mediocre. Lester, Hendricks, Darvish and Quintana arenít what they once were.
    I can't believe I have to defend the Cubs (exhales deeply)
    But.

    That Cubs team scored 97 more runs than they allowed, and basically have the same team back next year. That was good for a 90 win pyth record, and that could have easily been enough to win the Central. Their bullpen was their kyrptonite, and why they lost so many close games, distorting their final W-L record.

    Lester regressed to what he probably should have done the year prior, and I wouldn't be expecting much from him other than maybe back end rotation work.

    But Hendricks is a solid 1/2 pitcher, and Darvish got right in the second half and showed he can still dominate.
    Q had arguably the worst luck among any starter in baseball last year, and shouldn't have any problem bouncing back to a 3 win pitcher next year.

    While Chatwood has been a clear disaster, and they have failed to develop any other starters worth anything, between Chatwood/Cotton/Adzolay etc they should be able to carve out 30 start of upper 4 ERA pitching that keeps them from completely imploding.

    Their issue isn't upside talent, it's depth. The just don't have the 6-7-8 deep starters you want to have on a good post-season caliber rotation. But their 1-4 is still just as solid as you'd need on a team that can fight for the division.

    I would project
    Hendricks - 4 wins
    Darvish - 3.5 wins
    Q - 3 wins
    Lester - 2 wins
    Variety of starters 0-1 wins

    That's as 12.5 WAR rotation, and it had a 14 rWAR last year. That shouldn't be out of reach.

    Their lineup is likely going to lose Bryant this year, and how that shakes out is yet to be seen.

    But this is where I think they do have plenty of depth.

    I see (wins)
    Baez - 5
    Rizzo - 4
    Contreras - 3
    Schwarber - 3
    Bote - 2
    Heyward - 2
    Happ - 2

    That's 21 WAR, and doesn't account for whatever they get for Bryant, and whatever get from Hoerner their top prospect who is MLB ready. It also completely ignores centerfield.

    I think 25 WAR from their position players isn't out of the question at all.

    Their bullpen does suck though. But if they can etch out just 3 wins worth of production, that makes them roughly a 40 WAR caliber team, good enough to be a 88 win team, and basically replicate their 90 win production next year.

    I'm not saying they'll win the division, and I certainly hope they won't as a Cards fans. But I still see a very good team that shouldn't be taken for granted.


    Yes Iím biased but I donít think the Phillies are very good. Their pitching is hot garbage outside of Nola and Wheeler. Those two guys are good but guys like Eflin wouldnít even be the 5th starter on most playoff clubs, heís the Phillies #3. Their bullpen is also complete *******. The only thing that scares me is their offense, getting Didi, Cutch back, but I donít think Didi is much better than Cesar Hernandez - who they cut. Realmuto, Harper, Segura, Cutch, Didi and Hoskins make up a nice lineup but itís not enough to mitigate their horrible pitching imo.
    I dunno, I look at the Phillies and think they should be better than they've played.

    I think the Mets and Phillies are stars and scrubs rosters, that have a lot of holes that need to be figured out. Both of which keep both team out of the Braves/Nationals tier for the divisional crown.

    I see the Braves as a 95ish win team, the Nationals as a 92ish win team, and the Mets in the upper 80's to mid 80's at this moment, and the Phillies more in the mid 80's range.

    That can swing 5 wins either direction for any of those teams fairly quickly with breakouts, injuries, and a host of reasons of course.

    I would say the Mets are about as close to the Nationals as they are to the Phillies, in either direction, and look like their are the third 3rd team in the NL East (to me)

    The Mets have an insanely good rotation, and McNeill, Conforto, Nimmo, Alonso give the Mets a bright young core to build around. But you can't really count on the rest of the lineup to do anything and the bullpen is filled with question marks. The rotation, while elite at the front end, has a huge drop off. Though, they did potentially give it a higher floor with Wacha and Porcello. But their 1-4 is one of the best in the game.

    Phillies 1-6 in their lineup is certainly better than the Mets 1-6, but their 3B/CF solutions remain you wanting more. Their rotation has 2 co-aces, 2 solid, but unspectacular mid rotation guys, and a lack of depth. Their bullpen is pretty ugly.

    I'd rank the Mets and Phillies as the following

    Mets Rotation
    deGrom - 7
    Thor - 4
    Stroman - 3
    Matz - 2
    Porcello/Wacha - 1
    Total - 17

    Bullpen - 1.5

    Lineup
    Alonso - 4.5
    McNeill - 4
    Conforto - 4
    Davis - 2
    Rosario - 2
    Nimmo - 2.5
    Ramos - 1.5
    Others misc (Cesepedes included) - 2.0

    22.5

    Mets total - 41.0 WAR - 89 wins


    Phillies
    Rotation
    Wheeler - 4
    Nola - 3.5
    Arrieta - 2
    Velazquez - 1.5
    Elfin - 1.5
    Total - 12.5

    Bullpen - 1.5

    Lineup
    Realmuto - 5
    Harper - 5
    Kingery - 2.5
    Segura - 2.5
    Hoskins - 2.5
    Didi - 2.5
    Cutch - 2.5
    Others/Misc - 1.5

    That's 38 WAR - 86 wins

    So a tick ahead of the Phillies, but not a big distance.


    Twins Iíll probably concede that point. The AL Central was the worst division in baseball and the AL in general was very mediocre with barely half the league competing for a playoff spot. Twins have gotten worse IMO, they havenít fixed their rotation, and are going to have to deal with a competitive Cleveland and Chicago a lot more. I donít see them being much more than a 90 win club, last year was a fluke.
    Is Cleveland better?

    The White Sox certainly are. But that AL continues to be a really top heavy league, where a home run giant team can run away with a weak division like the Twins did.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    This list sucks.

    Mets are 18th? Behind the Dbacks, Cubs, and Phillies? Lulz.

    Twins are 4th??? Mega lulz. Twins wouldnít even win 85 games if they were in a good division.
    How are the dodgers 2nd? They've only gotten worse since the end of the season.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Instead of doing a hard list of 1-30, I'll tier them, because some teams are more close to each other than other groups


    Tier 1 - World Series Contenders - things have to go wrong for them to not be competitive all year
    Astros, Dodgers, Yankees

    Tier 2 - Close to World Series Contenders, and if a few things break right, they quickly are
    Rays, Nationals, A's, Braves, Twins

    Tier 3 - Should be in the playoff hunt most of the year
    Cards, Cubs, Indians, Brewers, D'Backs, Mets, Reds, Phillies, Red Sox

    Tier 4 - Should be around .500, could go a little each direction
    Angels, Rangers, White Sox, Padres

    Tier 5 - Improving, but not going to be competitive
    Giants, M's, Blue Jays, Rockies, Pirates

    Tier 6 - Tanking
    Tigers, O's, Marlins, Royals

    I won't argue if anyone wants to move a team up or down a tier, but I would argue two tier movements.
    I'd move the Nats up, it's hard to view the reigning champs as not a real contender, especially if they sign Donaldson.
    I'd move the dodgers down, they just lost a CY Young contender, and haven't gotten better.

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