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Thread: Moving Foward

  1. #16
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    A good run game and solid defense never goes out of style. That said, I don't expect a lot from this season. This is not a full on rebuild but a step back year for development, restocking and restructuring their cap situation.

    I do expect they'll be competitive, could even make the playoffs. Mostly hinges on how well Stidham plays.

    I agree with HPF - Keep this OL together and build the trenches. I like our DL group with Guy, Allen, Butler, Cowert, Wise, Wino and Simon. Nobody jumps off the page but they are solid.

    Our secondary is still elite. I think we have the top CB in the league and the best depth behind him. Safety is elite as well with McCourty, Chung returning and the additions of Phillips and Cody Davis.

    Hopefully Michel can return to form. I'd like to see what Harris can bring this year. I think Burkhead will be a cap casualty, he's just too injury prone and not worth the near $5m he costs. I wouldn't be surprised if we carry 2 FB's this year. I expect with a young QB they're going to try and pound the rock old school style.

    Our weaknesses are big...WR, TE and LB. These positions really aren't great. I expect they'll target these areas in the draft.

    City of Champions

  2. #17
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    Here's how I see the roster entering the draft and the holes needed to fill.

    QB - 3 - Stidham, Hoyer, Kessler - I think we'll draft a developmental guy for the PS late.
    RB - 4 - Michel, White, Harris, Bolden - We'll likely draft a guy late, look for Burkhead to be cut after preseason
    FB - 2 - Devlin, Vitale - I think we'll carry 2 FB's. Ground and pound baby
    WR - 6 - Edelman, Sanu, Harry, Byrd, Gunner, Meyers - This is actually a decent group for this year
    TE - 1 - Izzo/LaCosse - I actually liked what Izzo brought more than LaCosse last year. I think we draft TE high
    OT - 2 - Wynn, Cannon - They'll look to draft a guy high here. Codjust and Cunningham haven't shown anything
    OG - 2 - Mason, Thuney - Same as OT here
    OC - 1 - Andrews - Bill usually finds his C on the undrafted scrap heap, I expect more of the same.

    DT - 4 - Guy, Allen, Butler, Cowert - Solid group
    Edge - 4 - Wise, Wino, Simon, Calhoun - We should add to this group
    LB - 2 - Hightower, Bentley - These guys are good, need depth here
    CB - 5 - Gilmore, McCourty, Jones, Jackson, Williams - We're good here
    S - 5 - McCourty, Chung, Phillips, Davis, Brooks - We're good here

    K - Need to find the next great one
    P - Bailey - Good
    LS - Cardona - Good

    ST - 3 - Slater, Bethel, King

    That's 47 roster spots I'm comfortable with...Leaving 6 up for grabs.
    TE (1)
    OT (1)
    OG (1)
    Edge (1)
    ILB (1)
    K (1)

    We have 12 picks. BB has plenty of ammo to target the guys he wants. I think #23 is going to be traded back to round 2 unless there's a stud TE or a top QB drops unexpectedly.

    I expect an outcome something like this though

    Round 1
    #23 traded for a 2nd and a 3rd

    Round 2
    2nd traded for 2020 first round pick
    2nd - TE (2 3rds traded to move up)

    Round 3
    3rd - Edge/LB
    3rd - OL

    Round 4
    4th - OL
    4th - LB

    Round 5
    5th rounders traded into 2020 4ths

    Round 6
    6th - K (7th traded to move up)
    6th - QB (7th traded to move up)
    6th traded into 2020 5ths
    6th traded into 7th

    Round 7
    7th - WR

    City of Champions

  3. #18
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    Honestly, I’m not one for picking a position to draft. And I haven’t researched enough to say who would be best at #23. But here’s my assessment of need at each position:

    QB - Current group is Jarret Stidham, Brian Hoyer, Cody Kessler
    If you think there’s a stud on the board then by all means take a QB. That goes for #23 or any other draft slot. Especially with a weird offseason schedule though, I’m in favor of rolling with Stidham like I said. If he’s good we have a cheap solution at QB. If he flops, we’re likely in better position to land a QB next year. My expectation going in would just be a later round pick to compete with Kessler.

    RB - Current group is Sony Michel, James White, Rex Burkhead, Damien Harris, Brandon Bolden
    Honestly I don’t think there’s any real level of “need” here but let’s be honest in our assessment of what we have... Michel looked great as a rookie but sucked last year. The line got worse and we didn’t have a real FB. Those should be better this year but we also lost our QB so defenses probably won’t respect the pass as much. Rex Burkhead is solid but always hurt and could be a casualty. White is a solid receiving back but how much of his value is tied to Brady’s conservative playing style and use of backs in the passing game? He’s also a FA after the year. Damien Harris barely played as a rookie though does seemingly have some potential. Bolden is a STer only save for some bit playing time. If at any point they see a guy they think is an absolute monster it could be worth a pick. This is supposedly a deep class too so could be some good value drafting a guy later (as in round 3-5).

    Interesting idea here... Brady had a great relationship and rapport with White. TB needs a receiving back. Could you maybe get TB to pay a higher price for White than he's realistically worth in a trade due to Brady's familiarity? Many people are thinking Burkhead could be a cap casualty but White would offer similar savings. White's value as almost a pure passing game back could be diminished with Brady gone. As mentioned above this is a deep RB class so maybe you "graduate" Damien Harris to gameday role after being a non factor as a rookie (similar to Verren and James White in the past) to replace White and then draft another guy to sit in the pipeline. Just an idea...

    FB - Current group is James Develin, Dan Vitale, Jakob Johnson
    We have Johnson coming back and signed Vitale. I heard from a friend of a friend who went to school and is close with Develin that the neck won’t check out and he’s done. Take that for what it’s worth. I could see Vitale factoring in more as an H back and 3rd TE of sorts than a FB which leaves room for 2. If Develin really is done then a late round pick could make sense depending on what they think of Johnson.

    WR - Current group is Julian Edelman, Mohammed Sanu, N'Keal Harry, Jacobi Meyers, Damiere Byrd, Gunner Olszewski, Slater, Devin Ross, Quincy Adeboyejo
    This is a tough spot to project. There’s definitely a need for better play on paper but is it necessarily a need to add someone? Could that improvement come internally? We have Edelman to be our leader and set an example. Sanu was a big disappointment last year but in fairness he got traded to a new system and then never got to practice because not only was he hurt but the QB missed time as well. I expect improvement. But, he’s set to make $6.5M and can be cut/traded with no dead money. With us so cap-strapped could he be a casualty? Or maybe they can try to buy low on an extension if they’re confident, but then again he is an older player. Sanu is a guy to watch IMO. The new guy Byrd, between his semi-decent NFL production last year and return history, seems like a good guy to have as a #4/#5 for STs and a few set plays to use his speed. Then you have the young guys - Harry, Meyers and Gunner. Harry showed some flashes and hopefully makes a year two leap. Same for Meyers. Gunner to me is more of a camp/practice squad guy. I just don’t see the upside here. Ross and Adeboyejo are just camp bodies. Slater obviously makes it for STs.

    With this being such a great receiver class it seems likely we’ll draft one. A deep class just creates a situation where eventually the value is too great not to take one. But I’m not sure I see it as a top of the draft pick like some do. Ultimately it depends on who’s available. I do find it very interesting how drafting someone high (as in round 1-4) affects the depth chart and roster mix though. I wouldn’t be surprised if we made the type of trade we normally make where it’s a later pick + player for an earlier pick... except this time on the opposite side of it where we’re using Sanu to move up and clear cap. I find it unlikely Sanu is back without some sort of contract restructure if nothing else.

    TE - Current group is Matt LaCosse, Ryan Izzo
    This to me is still the absolute biggest “need” on the roster. Every other spot you can either convince yourself into rolling with what we have depending on moves elsewhere or view it as a long term need rather than immediate. There’s just no argument to be made that we’re good enough here. As mentioned earlier, I could see us only going with 2 guys here and using Vitale as an H back type and pseudo 3rd TE. And then maybe you use an OL as your blocking TE. So that means you probably just need to replace one of Izzo/Lacosse and the other can be a seldom used backup. But this is a major priority for sure. Hopefully they can land at lease a decent player in round 1-4. Even if it’s a guy you like more as a backup long term but it’s still better than what we have.

    OT - Current group is Isaiah Wynn, Marcus Cannon, Yodny Cajuste, Korey Cunningham
    Wynn has potential to be a long term answer at LT if he stays healthy. But that’s the “IF”. Cannon is still solid at RT but it’s probably unrealistic to expect him to be back next year at his age. A long term answer is needed. Ideally that would be Cajuste but after being drafted in the 3rd round he missed all year with injury. That makes it tough to evaluate. We also have Corey Cunningham but he didn’t seem to impress after being acquired last year. So I look for a pick to be used here even if late. We still need a long term starter at RT and then a backup to both sides. Even if Cajuste pans out, you still need one more long term guy.

    OG/C - Current group is Joe Thuney, Shaq Mason, David Andrews, Hjalte Froholdt, Jermaine Eluemunor, Najee Toran
    Thuney is going to need to be extended or traded. We can’t support his cap number on the tag. If he stays, we have a great player locked up long term. If not, we have cap space and another high round pick. I prefer the former but we'll see. Mason seemed to be playing hurt last year so hopefully he comes back strong at RG. Andrews back at C should help a lot. Behind them we have Jermaine Eluemunor and Hjalte Frohldt. Despite us being so cap strapped, we tendered EEluemunor at $2.5M. Seems to be some level of endorsement. We took Froholdt in the 4th last year but he missed the year injured. Hopefully between those investments we have enough depth behind our great starters. Toran is just a camp body. If Thuney is traded then this jumps to a need but we get cap/pick(s) to address it. The main question is who backs up Andrews at C. Also, Andrews is a FA after the year and returning from injury so I could see a high pick at that spot if the right guy is there.

    Edge - Current group is John Simon, Chase Winovich, Deatrich Wise, Brandon Copeland, Shilique Calhoun, Derek Rivers, Keionta Davis
    I would say the top 5 guys are all good enough to be on a roster. The last two of that group are also strong STers which increases their roster chances. But are any of them starting caliber? I'd lean towards no. And the last two names are just camp fodder until proven otherwise. Losing Van Noy leaves a void here. The losses of Collins and Roberts at LB also factor in here because there's now less flexibility to use a guy like Hightower on the edge. So I view this as a major area of concern. But it's not a depth question, it's a a starter question. So drafting a guy in the let's say the 4th round won't move the needle for me. Maybe that makes sense as a guy who takes over for Wise and brings some cap savings and long term control. But in terms of next year production that's a lateral move unless you strike gold. So this is a spot I think we need to invest highly in otherwise it will be a problem next year for us.

    Interior DL - Current group is Lawrence Guy, Adam Butler, Beau Allen, Bryon Cowart, Nick Thurman
    I view this group similarly to the edge group above. We have roster worthy players but not top of the depth chart talent. Guy is a solid starter but ideally more your #2 guy inside. Butler is a rotational pass rusher and Allen a rotational run stuffer. Coward is still unproven and Thurman is camp fodder. A lot of people thought our defense declined because of playing better QBs later last season but honestly I thought the inability to control the LOS vs the run was what did us in worse. So this area is a concern for me. If there's a stud DT at #23 it'd be hard for me to pass up. But short of that, I do think we can at least survive with this.

    Off the line LB - Current group is Dont'a Hightower, Ja'Whaun Bentley, Brandon King, Terez Hall, Tashawn Bowser
    Hightower and Bentley honestly isn't a bad starting duo but you need a coverage guy to rotate in. Although, Adrian Phillips at safety could be that guy. King is a STer only. Hall and Bowser are practice squad holdovers. Since the depth chart was so strong here last year it's definitely possible that one of those guys is a roster candidate who just didn't get a chance. I think the swap of Phillips for Harmon could mean our 3 safety set now has two near the LOS guys in Phillips/Chung which might reduce the need for coverage at LB but more depth is still needed here. Hightower isn't exactly young either. It wouldn't shock me if he were traded in a cap saving move, though I prefer an extension. I think we need to add a solid player here but there's some flexibility in how high a pick it needs to be based on how they use the safeties and what they think of the practice squad guys.

    CB - Current group is Stephon Gilmore, Jason McCourty, Jonathan Jones, J.C. Jackson, Joejuan Williams, Justin Bethel, D'Angelo Ross
    On paper this is obviously an elite group. Gilmore is tops in the league. McCourty and Jones are solid. Jackson might be one of the rising stars in the game. Williams was a guy they moved up for last year and seems more like he didn't play because of the depth chart than anything he did. Bethel is a core STer. Ross was a camp standout before landing on IR. I was actually a little surprised to see this McCourty brought back, considering our need for cap and the presence of Jackson/Williams behind him. Jones played some FS in practice last year so I wonder if they might eventually move him there at least part time. That covers the loss of Harmon as a second FS type which will allow Philips to be more of a coverage LB. Also opens up time for Jackson who deserves it and could be a long-time starter.

    I've read the Gilmore trade talk. Problem is it doesn't really open up much cap until after June 1st. And at that point you won't be able to use the picks to help this year. But if you get a king's ransom for him you should at least listen. I prefer an extension though. He's a truly elite player.

    S - Current group is Devin McCourty, Pat Chung, Adrian Phillips, Terrance Brooks, Obi Melifonwu, Cody Davis, Malik Grant, Adarius Pickett
    On paper again, this is an excellent group. McCourty is a proven player and leader. Chung has been great since returning, although he's had issues staying healthy and is getting up there in age. Phillips I think will be a great signing as a core STer and sub package piece - though as noted I think he might factor in more to the LB mix than traditional safety. Brooks is a good STer and backup. Obi has some upside though it hasn't translated beyond STs. Grant and Pickett are just camp bodies at this point.

    I do think Chung is someone to watch out for. Getting to the point of someone you think about maybe cutting a year too early rather than a year too late.

    K/P - Current group is Jake Bailey, Joe Cardona
    We need a kicker. Don't have anything else to add.

    So that's my overall roster assessment. Ultimately I think almost every position needs more talent except for CB (provided Gilmore isn't traded). Because of that, I think a trade back from #23 makes the most sense. Ultimately I'd love to move back pick up one of these players to go along with another late 2nd/early 3rd rounder:

    K'Lavon Chaisson, DE, LSU
    Kenneth Murray, LB, Oklahoma
    Yetur Gross-Matos, DE, Penn State
    Patrick Queen, LB, LSU
    Ross Blacklock, DT, TCU
    A.J. Epenesa, DE/OLB, Iowa
    Austin Jackson, OT, USC
    Isaiah Wilson, OT, Georgia
    Zack Baun, DE/OLB, Wisconsin
    Ezra Cleveland, OT, Boise State
    Kyle Dugger, S, Lenoir-Rhyne
    Cole Kmet, TE, Notre Dame
    Lloyd Cushenberry, C, LSU

    I left off WR and RB because these are deep drafts so hoping to land a good player later on. But I think those players all fill a combination of short term or long term need for us. The OT, S and C for example would probably be groomed to take over next year rather than play immediately like the DT, DE, TE or LB would.
    Last edited by hugepatsfan; 03-29-2020 at 12:05 PM.


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  4. #19
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    The players I like in the last first early second are (23-40sih) are:

    Zach Baun - Probably my favorite fit in this range. Hes a high IQ athletic guy that works hard. He has a lot of versatility which bb loves. He was extremely productive last year with 12.5 sacks. Underrated if you ask me.

    Kenneth Murray - A building block type ILB, but could play in different schemes. Great athlete. Good range from side to side. Looks like a sure fire 3 down player to me.

    Patrick Queen - Potential to be an effective 3 down player at ILB. Extremely smart player who excels in coverage. High ceiling here. Has a few issues with tackling and strength though.

    I also like Marlon Davidson, A.J Epenesa, Cesar Ruiz and Yetur Gross-Matos.

    The top three are probably my favorite right now. I'd love to get one of the four tackles if they drop (Becton, Wills, Wirfs or Thomas) but I don't see them dropping past 18.

    Guys I like in the second (If we trade down more) and third are:

    Julian Okwara - exciting rush OLB, but lacks run defense.
    Matt Hennesey - Really good center that can start day one if we cant continue with Andrews.
    Malik Harrison - A good third option if we don't nab Murray / Queen. Lags a bit in coverage though.

    Lower down the third (98, 100)

    Troy Dye - High ceiling ILB guy. Tough and explosive. A great consolation if we don't get a LB early.
    Ben Bartch - Really like him as a developmental LT. Small school but held up well in the senior bowl before injury. Not ready to start now but maybe sit behind Wynn for a bit and potentially take his spot.
    Alex Highsmith - Developmental 3-4 OLB with exciting tape at times. Would need time.
    Solomon Kindley - Good IOL player for Georgia. Would be a luxury because we have Thuney and Mason but is a good football player
    Albert Okwuegbunam - Wild card here. One of the more interesting guys. Has red flags but super high ceiling but is certainly more of a move TE then an in line TE role.
    Tyler Johnson - One of my favorites in this draft. Often overlooked because of the depth of WR in this draft. Quality Routes, tough, willing to block.


    Other guys I like that I'm not sure where they go but I hope get a look:

    Dalton Keene - Versatile TE prospect who should get a look. Patriots type player if I've ever seen one.

    Jacob Breeland - I think people are lower on him then I am. A quality move TE with good hands.

    James Lynch - Productive D lineman that some think cant win against NFL o lines.

    Tanner Muse - A big bodied safety that could potentially replace Chung. Versatile as well.

    A couple notes about this draft. Really deep at WR. I think we can get a good WR in the 3rd / 4th round area for sure. I like Tyler Johnson a lot but there are others around that area that are good too.

    I'm not overly big on some of the earlier TE's. I know its a big need for us but I think Keene and Breeland could potentially be as impactful as Adam Trautman, Brycen Hopkins, and Hunter Bryant. I like those guys too but the value is later for the TEs. Cole Kmet is nice too but certainly not a great prospect either.

    Dline is light in this draft as well. I don't love a lot of them. I guess I'd prefer to draft Lynch late then a guy like Blacklock in the first.

    OTs look good in this draft. The first four look promising as step in starters. A lot of developmental guys that are interesting though. Guys like Jackson, Jones, Peart, Bartch, Prince Tega Wanogho could all be good OT that need some time. I like Trey Adams and Terrance Steele as well. A good group here.

    IOL looks good too. More so in the mid rounds.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Here's how I see the roster entering the draft and the holes needed to fill.

    QB - 3 - Stidham, Hoyer, Kessler - I think we'll draft a developmental guy for the PS late.
    RB - 4 - Michel, White, Harris, Bolden - We'll likely draft a guy late, look for Burkhead to be cut after preseason
    FB - 2 - Devlin, Vitale - I think we'll carry 2 FB's. Ground and pound baby
    WR - 6 - Edelman, Sanu, Harry, Byrd, Gunner, Meyers - This is actually a decent group for this year
    TE - 1 - Izzo/LaCosse - I actually liked what Izzo brought more than LaCosse last year. I think we draft TE high
    OT - 2 - Wynn, Cannon - They'll look to draft a guy high here. Codjust and Cunningham haven't shown anything
    OG - 2 - Mason, Thuney - Same as OT here
    OC - 1 - Andrews - Bill usually finds his C on the undrafted scrap heap, I expect more of the same.

    DT - 4 - Guy, Allen, Butler, Cowert - Solid group
    Edge - 4 - Wise, Wino, Simon, Calhoun - We should add to this group
    LB - 2 - Hightower, Bentley - These guys are good, need depth here
    CB - 5 - Gilmore, McCourty, Jones, Jackson, Williams - We're good here
    S - 5 - McCourty, Chung, Phillips, Davis, Brooks - We're good here

    K - Need to find the next great one
    P - Bailey - Good
    LS - Cardona - Good

    ST - 3 - Slater, Bethel, King

    That's 47 roster spots I'm comfortable with...Leaving 6 up for grabs.
    TE (1)
    OT (1)
    OG (1)
    Edge (1)
    ILB (1)
    K (1)

    We have 12 picks. BB has plenty of ammo to target the guys he wants. I think #23 is going to be traded back to round 2 unless there's a stud TE or a top QB drops unexpectedly.

    I expect an outcome something like this though

    Round 1
    #23 traded for a 2nd and a 3rd

    Round 2
    2nd traded for 2020 first round pick
    2nd - TE (2 3rds traded to move up)

    Round 3
    3rd - Edge/LB
    3rd - OL

    Round 4
    4th - OL
    4th - LB

    Round 5
    5th rounders traded into 2020 4ths

    Round 6
    6th - K (7th traded to move up)
    6th - QB (7th traded to move up)
    6th traded into 2020 5ths
    6th traded into 7th

    Round 7
    7th - WR
    To me this is the most realistic draft scenario, and honestly I would be 100% okay with it playing out like this.

  6. #21
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    HPF & Oakmont those were great posts first off......Reports coming out that there’s talk of us possibly moving Edelman to Detroit. I think if we could land their earlier 3rd rnd pick than we should really consider moving him. I love Jules, but I think Bill has some tricks up his sleeve. I honestly believe that we’re gonna be a whole lot more competitive that what people think we’re gonna be this year. I believe that we’re gonna rely heavy on the running game (Harris will be involved) and Stidham is gonna surprise.

  7. #22
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    I don't agree with moving Edelman. I get the idea but he's a leader and security blanket for Stidham or whoever.

    When our first run started there was a core of guys who had been in place for a few years: Bruschi, McGinnest, Milloy, Law, Troy Brown and then BB sort of pseudo added to that by bringing in a bunch of guys who had played together on the Jets (Otis Smith, Roman Phifer, Bobby Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant).

    I want to have the same sort of veteran core that can be leaders. I consider that group Gilmore, Hightower, McCourty, Edelman, Slater - guys like that. Players who set the tone for the rest of the roster.


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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I don't agree with moving Edelman. I get the idea but he's a leader and security blanket for Stidham or whoever.

    When our first run started there was a core of guys who had been in place for a few years: Bruschi, McGinnest, Milloy, Law, Troy Brown and then BB sort of pseudo added to that by bringing in a bunch of guys who had played together on the Jets (Otis Smith, Roman Phifer, Bobby Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant).

    I want to have the same sort of veteran core that can be leaders. I consider that group Gilmore, Hightower, McCourty, Edelman, Slater - guys like that. Players who set the tone for the rest of the roster.
    Agreed. That's not to say it's impossible, I just think BB would have to be blown away with an offer for those guys. He's comfortable with their cap numbers and views them as foundational pieces to lead the team. Now if someone offers up 2 firsts for Gilmore, yeah BB probably takes that. I don't think BB ever views anyone as untouchable (save for Brady, but that's in the past).

    Same with Edelman, if Detroit wanted to overpay for him, I don't think BB would think twice. But he's not going to send him packing for a "fair" trade, it would have to be the ole bend over the barrel variety. Guys like Thuney, who are going to cost a lot of money and aren't viewed as a team leader variety, I think he'd take any type of "fair value" offer received just to move that money off the books.

    City of Champions

  9. #24
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    Xavier McKinney, Safety from Alabama is kind of growing on me. Would be an excellent fit in the Chung role with some added ability to play more deep safety. That could be especially valuable now that our 3rd Safety with Phillips over Harmon will be more of a near the LOS guy.

    I get that it wouldn’t be the sexiest pick or fill the biggest need but Chung has had health issues the past few years and is aging. Could easily see a scenario where McKinney forces Chung into being a camp cut or sits for a year and takes over for him next year.


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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Xavier McKinney, Safety from Alabama is kind of growing on me. Would be an excellent fit in the Chung role with some added ability to play more deep safety. That could be especially valuable now that our 3rd Safety with Phillips over Harmon will be more of a near the LOS guy.

    I get that it wouldn’t be the sexiest pick or fill the biggest need but Chung has had health issues the past few years and is aging. Could easily see a scenario where McKinney forces Chung into being a camp cut or sits for a year and takes over for him next year.
    I would like to see us try and trade back with Chicago to grab both their 2nd rnd picks, maybe our 1st & 3rd or 4th for the two 2nds. I’d take a LB or edge rusher with the first pick, then draft Mims or Higgins with the next pick, then use one of our 3rds for Trautman if he’s still there. If we wait till the later to draft a TE I like Dalton Keene or Pinkney.

  11. #26
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    I think WR is less of a need than people make it out to be. Last year exaggerated our need...

    Edelman player the whole year injured.

    Sanu got traded to a new system midseason. Then he was a reduced player because of injury. And that also made it so he couldn’t get practice reps to build timing. And even when he could practice, Brady was missing practice late.

    Harry got drafted as a rookie to a timing based offense. The QB didn’t go to OTAs. Then Harry got hurt in camp and missed 10 games.

    Byrd was a decent situational #4 in AZ. Meters showed a little bit of potential here too.

    So I’m not arguing our depth chart is strong. But, Edelman and Sanu, if healthy, are solidly worth being in the top 3 of a WR depth chart. If Harry progresses into another guy like that - which as a 1st rounder and with some of the signs he showed late last year isn’t unrealistic - then I think we have an alright depth chart.

    Now, Sanu is older and a FA after the year. Edelman is aging as well with 2 years left. So there’s a need for more top of the depth chart talent in the pipeline. Combined with a deep draft I expect us to capitalize and draft a WR. But I don’t think it’s a need we have to specifically target.

    I think that TE is far and away the biggest need we have. But then on defense we’re expecting Bentley to start at LB full time. Our EDGE players are Simon/Winovich/Wise. Even at DT, we just have a solid Lawrence guy and then a Butler/Allen next to him - each of whom are just situational players. Maybe not DT specifically, but I view better front 7 play as our next biggest need after TE, ahead of WR.


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  12. #27
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    I’m kind of going back and forth on Kenneth Murray, the LB from Oklahoma. It seems like he’s got a little bit of Jamie Collins athleticism but Hightower playing style at inside LB. Seems to need some refinement and polish to his game. There’s definitely 3 down potential though.

    Maybe if you add him to the pipeline you can start using Hightower on the edge more. I can see a scenario where in the “base” package you have Bentley and Hightower inside. Then in “sub” packages you slide Hightower down to end, and use Murray plus the newly signed Adrian Phillips at LB to get more speed on the field.

    Tough part of that I think is how Hightower calls the defensive plays and audibles which is easier to do at inside LB than on the edge. So you might have to make the transition a little more gradually where eventually Murray is calling plays/audibles.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  13. #28
    Join Date
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    Did a full round mock with trades if anyone wants to read (spoiler, I have us trading out).

    We end up with #40, #63, #87, #90, #100 on day 2 (we lose #125 in round 4).

    1) Bengals – QB Joe Burrow. No brainer.

    2) Redskins – EDGE Chase Young. They’ll give some consideration to moving down but without a sure-fire second QB I don’t think the demand will be strong enough.

    3) (Trade) MIA – QB Tua Tagovailoa. To move up two spots, I have MIA giving up #70 and #141. They have a bounty so it’s a small price to pay for them to make sure they get their guy. DET is guaranteed to still land a defensive player at #5 so they’ll be willing to move down but lack of demand will prevent them from getting a real haul. This is more a case of MIA just having the flexibility to make sure they get their guy without being jumped by SD or someone else.

    4) NYG – LB Isaiah Simmons. I know OT is popular here but I just feel that they’ll see Simmons as a special player. They’ve shown before with Barkley that they’re not afraid to draft for talent over positional value.

    5) DET (via trade with MIA at #3) – CB Jeff Okudah. Patricia in NE always built his defense from the secondary forward. Okudah gives them a #1 CB who can play man coverage. They move back and still get a defensive stud in the secondary.

    6) (Trade) ATL – DT Derrick Brown. There are heavy rumors that ATL wants to move up to land a defensive stud. Brown is a monster and would be a scary fit next to Grady Jarrett inside. They jump CAR for him. I have them giving up #16, #47 and a 2021 2nd rounder. For the Chargers, I don’t think they see their QB of the future here. They can address their OL in the mid 1st and secure an extra couple of second rounders in the process.

    7) (Trade) DEN – OT Tristan Wirfs. With the back to back to back defensive players ahead, DEN sees a chance to move up and secure the top OT on their board. CAR isn’t in the market for a franchise QB here and with a new staff they aren’t in immediate pressure. That make for a good move back scenario unless Brown or Simmons is here. I have DEN giving up #15, #77, #83 and #95 for this pick and #113.

    8) AZ – OT Mekhi Baton. After the Hopkins trade AZ can focus on the OT spot here. They have some guys who can be serviceable if need be so they go for the guy with the biggest upside in Baton.

    9) (Trade) TB – OT Andrew Thomas. TB just signed TB12 who needs protection at his age. There are a clear top 4 at OT this year and with CLE/NYJ picking next, TB won’t leave it to chance. They give up #76 and #139 to move up from #14 to this spot and get their OT. JAX can move back here and still get a great player at #14.

    10) CLE – OT Jedrick Willis. This is by far the biggest hole on their roster and they fill it with the last of the top 4 OTs in this class.

    11) NYJ – CB CJ Henderson. They would have loved an OT but the top 4 are gone. A lot of people say WR, but this is such a deep class that they can land one later. There’s a lot of buzz around Henderson going top 10 and I have him just missing that here. CB is a big weakness for the Jets and they address that here.

    12) LV – WR Jerry Jeudy. The Raiders get their pick of the WRs here. Jeudy is an instant contributor and good fit for Gruden’s offense.

    13) (Trade) LV – QB Justin Herbert. After getting their WR, the Raiders move up for their QB. I think they’ll look to recreate what KC did with Mahomes. They let him sit behind the solid Alex Smith for a year and develop. Then, they were able to move Smith for value. OAK will look to do the same with Carr, who like Smith is good enough to win a lot of games and therefore valuable, but lacks the upside to take you far. They give up #19, #80 and #72 to SF for the move up.

    14) JAX (via trade with TB at #9) – DT Javon Kinlaw. They get to add a top pick to their defensive line after moving back. Their once strong defense has been decimated and this helps build it back up starting in the trenches.

    15) CAR (via trade with DEN at #7) – EDGE K’Levon Chaisson. After moving back, CAR adds the top remaining pass rusher to their defense. That’s a good start for anyone looking to build a foundation on defense.

    16) SD (via trade with ATL at #6) – WR Henry Ruggs. This pick is a bit of a surprise but I don’t see SD loving Herbert. They have Allen and Mike Williams at WR but Ruggs gives them a different kind of threat. Combined with Henry at TE and Eckler at RB this makes for an impressive set of weapons. Spoiler alert: I have them trading up for a QB later.

    17) (Trade) MIN – WR CeeDee Lamb. After moving on from the drama of Stephon Diggs and clearing cap space, they replace him at the top of their depth chart. DAL needs defensive help but the value isn’t there right now. MIN gives up #22 and #89.

    18) MIA – S Xavier McKinney. After drafting their QB on offense MIA lands someone who can help lead the back end of their defense. He’s a versatile player who fits really well what Flores likes to do at safety. Chung was a key player for him in NE and McKinney can be a better player in that role.

    19) SF (via trade with LV at #13) – OT Josh Jones. SF believes in building through the trenches. Staley is aging at LT so here is his eventual replacement. After moving back they can feel better about drafting for future need. That’s how you keep the good times rolling for years and years.

    20) JAX – CB Kristian Fulton. With the pick they got in the Ramsey trade, they draft a replacement. They also dealt Bouye, making CB a big need. Between this and the earlier Kinlaw selection, they begin to rebuild that defense.

    21) (Trade) SD – QB Jordan Love. SD added another weapon earlier. Now they get their QB. After picking up a second this year and next from the trade with ATL at #6, they have some extra capital. For #21, they send PHI #37, #71 and a future second rounder. PHI has a need at WR, but in such a deep class they’ll get a good one at #37 after this trade. It also gives them more ammo to address other needs.

    22) (Trade) TEN – EDGE AJ Espansa. I originally DAL moving back here from #17 in a trade with MIN. Now, they pick up #93 to move back to #29 with TEN. NE needs an edge rusher at #23 so TEN jumps up to grab a good scheme fit.

    23) (Trade) KC – LB Kenneth Murray. The Chiefs are obviously loaded but could stand to upgrade at LB. BB and Andy Reid have a history of trades. KC sends #32 and #63 to NE for #23 and #98. Since it’s a deep draft, the Chiefs like that they get to move up for a top player on their board without getting less picks. For NE, they have a leaking roster so the value of moving up from the 3rd to the second is appealing.

    24) NO – WR Justin Jefferson. The Saints added Sanders in FA but he’s not the player he once was. They could use another threat as Brees tries to land one more title before he calls it quits. This is a good value pick here.

    25) MIN – CB AJ Terrell. After the CB depth chart got ravaged in free agency, MIN lands a 1st round prospect here.

    26) MIA – OT Austin Jackson. MIA really needs OL help and here it is. Along with Tua and McKinney earlier they hope they’ve added 3 building blocks.

    27) (Trade) DAL - OL Cesar Ruiz. The Cowboys have needs on defense, but fundamentally they’re built on having a strong offensive line. After moving back multiple times they get a little antsy and move back up to make sure some team doesn’t snatch him up. They send SEA #143 to move up a couple spots from #29 where I have them after trades at #17 and #22.

    28) BAL – LB Zach Baun. You can never have too many pass rushers to the Ravens add a versatile guy here to their front 7. He can fit on the inside or on the edge for them, each of those being spots where they could have some FA defections in the coming year.

    29) SEA (via trade with DAL at #29) – EDGE Yetur Gross-Matos. With Clowney still unsigned, the Seahawks get some insurance for their pass rush.

    30) GB – WR Laviska Shenault. The Packers need to give Rodgers more help. Shenault is a versatile player who they can use inside and out. He struggles some to get separation, but Rodgers throws into tight windows well enough and Shenault catches well in traffic.

    31) SF – WR Denzel Mims. The 49ers could use an outside WR to give them a weapon downfield. Mims tested well and should be able to contribute right away.

    32) (Trade) HOU – OT Erza Cleveland. The Texans are in a perpetual state of needing OL help so they make a move up for a player there. They send NE #40 and #90 for #32 and #125.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Alaska
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    17,537
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Did a full round mock with trades if anyone wants to read (spoiler, I have us trading out).

    We end up with #40, #63, #87, #90, #100 on day 2 (we lose #125 in round 4).
    I like the idea of trading out of the first round. This is a deep draft at the positions we need, minus TE. I like the idea of shoring up our LB in the mid rounds, someone like Troy Dye, then maybe Okwuegbunam.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    44,390
    The TE crop isn't very good IMO. If you can get Trautman in the late 70's, maybe, but he won't do much this year. O.J. Howard is said to be on the block, I'd make a call, but not over pay.

    QB's not worth pursuing in this draft IMO, unless you want to use pick #2**.

    Bill likes to load up on the lines when building a team. I think we have a need at LT - like Austin Jackson in the late 40's/early 50's for that. C is another need - extreme if Andrews not able to go.

    DT's pretty solid but no star - could draft a guy in the 5th or 6th - like Fotu or Benito Jones for development.

    On the edge I really like Greenard in the low/mid 70's

    BB will draft a Kicker - probably Blankenship, early early 5th or late 4th.

    There are some guys I really like, BB does too, which are not need, but like:

    Zack Moss - goal line stud
    Chinn - a nasty strong S

    Don't think we need WR's, but maybe Van Jefferson or Bryan Edwards might draw BB.

    Baltimore has #55, #60, #92, I can see BB jumping up with an offer of 23, 172, 230 for that. You can then deal into the 40's or 60's to pick up someone because you've got the ammo.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

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