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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    He's a good pass catcher and did a good amount of it.

    The issue was (and I guess still is), based on scouting from Steelers beat writers and bloggers, is his pass protection is absolutely terrible. Struggles to see the blitz, slide protect, or set a good base.
    Makes sense. And I believe thatís usually the toughest thing to project for a back coming out of college because you just donít get to see that at an NFL level on tape with college schemes usually.

    It absolutely needs to be harped on and coached up all offseason. You canít continue to play him if heís going to be a dead giveaway that itís a run.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydubb View Post
    Did you guys notice mike vrabel looked like he had a very short moment where he wasnít happy to see that pick six at the end of the game? Almost like he tuned into his inner patriot roots and then quickly snapped outta it
    Technically that extended the game because of the score. If he just goes down they have to take a knee. Because he scored BE got a chance to try some lateral **** on the kickoff. The smart play there is just going down, though weíre all human and can obviously understand Ryan wanting to score.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Makes sense. And I believe thatís usually the toughest thing to project for a back coming out of college because you just donít get to see that at an NFL level on tape with college schemes usually.

    It absolutely needs to be harped on and coached up all offseason. You canít continue to play him if heís going to be a dead giveaway that itís a run.
    It's one of my "great mysteries" of BB. For a coach that preaches versatility so much, the fact that he's never gone in on a do it all back and tried to get one has amazed me. BB with that offense and having a player like Bell or Kamara would be dead near unstoppable. But He always wanted the stable of backs with such difference skillsets for some reason.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenR897 View Post
    With Randy Moss and then Gronk the Patriots developed a modern passing attack. Before then, during the first 2001-2004 'dynasty', it was game management, dink and dunk, and complimentary situational football.

    Sans Gronk, the Pats turned the clock to 2003 and went back to playing dink and dunk complementary football, which is just another way of saying "we have no offense so we need defense and special teams to make plays for us".
    Yeah, the thing with Moss and Gronk is that they dictate coverage. Edelman certainly gets doubled but I donít think itís nearly to the same extent as those two HOFers.

    I think the dunk and dunk can work. But it needs to be complimentary. It isnít conducive to high scoring so you need the strong defense/STs like you said. Because youíre not getting the production from your #1 and #2 like when you have studs you need balance - so you need a real TE as opposed to a non factor that way defenses at least need to cover all 5 eligibles. You need a strong running game which is harder when youíre back gives away the play call like ours does. You need a better run blocking line than we had due to our starting center being out, our stud RG having a bad year (supposedly playing through some stuff) and age related decline in our RT. The LT also sucked for half the year due to the starter being hurt.

    My point is that while people are quick to point to WR because itís flashy I donít think thats necessarily where the improvement needs to be. I think what they have can work if they make the improvements in other areas. But there need to be improvement across the board to build an offense where the pieces compliment each other.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It's one of my "great mysteries" of BB. For a coach that preaches versatility so much, the fact that he's never gone in on a do it all back and tried to get one has amazed me. BB with that offense and having a player like Bell or Kamara would be dead near unstoppable. But He always wanted the stable of backs with such difference skillsets for some reason.
    Well I wouldnít say he ďwantsĒ that. I think for years they had Brady and a well balanced passing attack with weapons at WR and TE. So the all around RB wasnít a priority or true ďneedĒ. So I think he was happy to just scout a specific skill set in each guy and build the unit that way.

    If Bell ends up a free agent Iíd have interest for sure.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  6. #276
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    https://overthecap.com/calculator/new-england-patriots/

    Overthecap has the Pats at about $50M of cap room. That number will go down by about $6M once Brady's deal voids and the unamortized signing bonus pro rates. So let's call it $44M.

    Notable free agents are Devin McCourty, Kyle Van Noy and Jamie Collins so they need to be re-signed or replaced.

    We currently have a 1st, 3rd and 4th (via CHI). Expected to get 2 3rd round comp picks as well. Then we have 4 6ths and 3 7ths.

    So, I think these are the cap space moves they'll make:

    1) Cut Jason McCourty to save $4M. Gilmore and Jackson are studs outside and Jones is great in the slot. J-Mac is worth his money but it's just more than we can invest in a 4th CB. Need to re-invest that elsewhere.

    2) I expect contract extensions for Hightower and Gilmore to give them more money but reduce cap hits.

    3) Gostowski either gets cut or takes a paycut coming off season ending injury.

    4) Sanu at $6.5M is probably too high. Maybe a one year extension to spread the money out. I could see them maybe adding a huge option year so they can cut that in half via signing bonus pro ration.

    5) Marcus Cannon I thought really fell off last year. Cut him to save $3.8M.

    Onto the re-signings, with the way Collins floundered in CLE and then came back I'm hopeful he won't get too overpaid and can be brought back reasonable priced.

    For Devin McCourty, I don't think we can continue paying both him and Harmon. As I mention in another post it's a luxury we can't afford with needs to address elsewhere. So if McCourty will come back on a reasonable number then cut Harmon to free $4.25M. Otherwise, goodbye Devin and roll with the still very good Harmon at FS.

    I'd let Van Noy go. He'll get overpaid. But I'd entertain brining him back.

    So all said, I think NE will have some money to play with. I think they end up bringing Brady back for about $20M, but should be another $20-30M to spend on other improvements. I'd target DT, TE and RT.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    I honestly think this will be the actual last gasp of the Patriot dynasty.

    One more win at Gillette, they get their doors blown off in KC, and that's a wrap on the last two decades.

    Brady is unwilling to go out in that fashion, tries to squeeze one more year next season and gets Favre'd.
    I actually overestimated.


  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It's one of my "great mysteries" of BB. For a coach that preaches versatility so much, the fact that he's never gone in on a do it all back and tried to get one has amazed me. BB with that offense and having a player like Bell or Kamara would be dead near unstoppable. But He always wanted the stable of backs with such difference skillsets for some reason.
    IIRC, during the first 'dynasty' in the early 2000s, Kevin Faulk was kind of that way, jack of all trades.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Yeah, the thing with Moss and Gronk is that they dictate coverage. Edelman certainly gets doubled but I donít think itís nearly to the same extent as those two HOFers.

    I think the dunk and dunk can work. But it needs to be complimentary. It isnít conducive to high scoring so you need the strong defense/STs like you said. Because youíre not getting the production from your #1 and #2 like when you have studs you need balance - so you need a real TE as opposed to a non factor that way defenses at least need to cover all 5 eligibles. You need a strong running game which is harder when youíre back gives away the play call like ours does. You need a better run blocking line than we had due to our starting center being out, our stud RG having a bad year (supposedly playing through some stuff) and age related decline in our RT. The LT also sucked for half the year due to the starter being hurt.

    My point is that while people are quick to point to WR because itís flashy I donít think thats necessarily where the improvement needs to be. I think what they have can work if they make the improvements in other areas. But there need to be improvement across the board to build an offense where the pieces compliment each other.
    Well said.

  10. #280
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    Isnít it ironic that the biggest pats defender, the one who claims they never did wrong, didnít cheat, didnít lie, it was just that everyone hated them for no reason was banned for cheating and lying and claiming it was everyone against him?

    Good times.

  11. #281
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    Patriots fans are funny... For years ago we've heard is that Brady is the GOAT because he never had weapons and he made players look better than they actually were. Now when he's struggling, it's "Well they just don't have the talent."

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Isnít it ironic that the biggest pats defender, the one who claims they never did wrong, didnít cheat, didnít lie, it was just that everyone hated them for no reason was banned for cheating and lying and claiming it was everyone against him?

    Good times.
    It's just a consultant m conspiracy that he got banned, probably

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Patriots fans are funny... For years ago we've heard is that Brady is the GOAT because he never had weapons and he made players look better than they actually were. Now when he's struggling, it's "Well they just don't have the talent."
    The guy is 42... he's playing with a bunch of #3 receivers, a banged up o line, and went 12-4. He HAS made players look better than they are and still does, but you can't paint a 100 square foot room with 2oz of Benjamin Moore.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Patriots fans are funny... For years ago we've heard is that Brady is the GOAT because he never had weapons and he made players look better than they actually were. Now when he's struggling, it's "Well they just don't have the talent."
    Canít both be true? You can make great players look elite. Good players look great. Average players look good. Below average players look average. Bad players look below average. All of them are making guys look better than they are but not all of them will leave you good enough.

    Iíd say the Pats are in a borderline situation of bad to below average weapons. Edelman is a good player but as a #1 heís one of the weaker in the league Iíd say. White is obviously a strong receiver out of the backfield but he ainít Marshall Faulk. Outside of that I donít think anyone they have is above average.

    Thereís a whole lot of space in between ďmaking this group betterĒ and ďmaking this group good enough to have a great offenseĒ.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Canít both be true? You can make great players look elite. Good players look great. Average players look good. Below average players look average. Bad players look below average. All of them are making guys look better than they are but not all of them will leave you good enough.

    Iíd say the Pats are in a borderline situation of bad to below average weapons. Edelman is a good player but as a #1 heís one of the weaker in the league Iíd say. White is obviously a strong receiver out of the backfield but he ainít Marshall Faulk. Outside of that I donít think anyone they have is above average.

    Thereís a whole lot of space in between ďmaking this group betterĒ and ďmaking this group good enough to have a great offenseĒ.
    I think crying poor on offense isn't very disingenuous.

    Of the leagues #1 WR's this season, Edelman is in the upper half. Sanu is a solid #2. Dorsett would be a solid #3 if Brady could throw the ball downfield. Harry is a solid WR in the making and fits that 2.5 mold as a rookie. Not to mention the failed experiments of Brown and Gordon. Michel/White/Burkhead are certainly in the upper half of RBBC in the league. The most glaring need was TE, even then, Watson can still move the chains and LaCosse is a not-so-bad back-up.

    #DingerSZN
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    End of Season Stats
    .542AVG/.562OBP/.889SLG/1.451OPS/21RBIs/3Dingers(1 grand slam)
    Selected to All-Conference Team
    Selected First Team All-District Team
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    Verbal Commitment to State Fair Community College

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