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  1. #1
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    Feb 2010
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    Diagnose the T-Wolves

    I don't get it. Wiggins is actually good again. Towns is a full fledged beast. Teague is playing how they thought he would when giving him the contract. Covington is the right type of 3&D PF next to Towns.

    Sure they're probably kicking themselves they didn't trade down for Herro, but a better SG rotation can't fix everything.

    They were looking fine then they lose 7 straight.

    How would you fix this team?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    I don't get it. Wiggins is actually good again. Towns is a full fledged beast. Teague is playing how they thought he would when giving him the contract. Covington is the right type of 3&D PF next to Towns.

    Sure they're probably kicking themselves they didn't trade down for Herro, but a better SG rotation can't fix everything.

    They were looking fine then they lose 7 straight.

    How would you fix this team?
    Attempt to sign FVV in the off-season and hope Culver develops and makes some leaps (draft class has a lot of lottery picks playing bad tbh). Okogie is a nice energy guy. Is Wiggins a good enough 2nd fiddle and you roll with that or do you attempt to upgrade him?

    I think a savvy and seasoned player like Fred with championship experience and high iq can do wonders. Doesn't seem like the highest iq team.

  3. #3
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    Jun 2019
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    I've not watched any of the games, so take it with a grain of salt. Mostly they seemed pretty close in the last 7, so I'd say they need a closer. A lot of points scored both ways too, so I'd also say better defense. What can also tie into that is controlling the pace, so a floor general.

    The floor general and closer could be one in the same. The defense will just have to be a team effort and discipline.

    In reality they never should've let Jimmy go. I understand it made sense to wait to pay him but you gotta pay the dude, especially before KAT and Andy.

  4. #4
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    Minnesota is ranked 3rd in 4th quarter points per game over their last 3 games, all losses. They're ranked 12th on the season. Wiggins is the 11th highest PPG in the NBA in 4th quarters. Towns is ranked 23rd highest in the 4th. Both players sport a positive point differential in the 4th. As a team they are -0.3 in plus minus in the 4th. Plenty of other winning teams have a negative rating (Rockets, 76ers, Jazz, Pacers).

    Closing doesn't appear to be an issue.

    Unless they can salary dump Dieng on someone, they won't have any real cap space either. They'll have about $8M if the cap stays at $118M.

    Maybe I'm being too hard, but Culver's shot looks broken. Like it'll never be "good". Sure it will improve and he might become average, but it will likely never be a strength. Maybe it's time to already think about moving him for a better fit.

    Funny enough Josh Richardson is probably the best fit at SG for them, but its unlikely they can get him with Teague and a pick.
    Last edited by beasted86; 12-15-2019 at 09:48 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Funny enough Josh Richardson is probably the best fit at SG for them, but its unlikely they can get him with Teague and a pick.
    Woof talk about something that won't happen.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Minnesota is ranked 3rd in 4th quarter points per game over their last 3 games, all losses. They're ranked 12th on the season. Wiggins is the 11th highest PPG in the NBA in 4th quarters. Towns is ranked 23rd highest in the 4th. Both players sport a positive point differential in the 4th. As a team they are -0.3 in plus minus in the 4th. Plenty of other winning teams have a negative rating (Rockets, 76ers, Jazz, Pacers).

    Closing doesn't appear to be an issue.

    Unless they can salary dump Dieng on someone, they won't have any real cap space either. They'll have about $8M if the cap stays at $118M.

    Maybe I'm being too hard, but Culver's shot looks broken. Like it'll never be "good". Sure it will improve and he might become average, but it will likely never be a strength. Maybe it's time to already think about moving him for a better fit.

    Funny enough Josh Richardson is probably the best fit at SG for them, but its unlikely they can get him with Teague and a pick.
    If they're that good at closing then maybe they get off to slow starts, idk bc I don't watch em. But the games are relatively close. There's just some point in the game they're getting outscored, otherwise the Ls would be in the W column.

    I know Teague doesn't start anymore, maybe re-inserting him in the starting 5 is all they need to do.

  7. #7
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    Towns puts up fake stats and plays no defense. He's an excellent Robin but he ain't no Batman. And they are putrid as a whole on defense. Just same old same old.


    Rippin' lips son!!

  8. #8
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    I don't watch Wolves games, so this is from a stats perspective. Wiggins isn't "good". He's average on high volume, which is good for Wiggins but bad in general if you want to be over .500. And he's on a max contract. I bring up his contract because that directly affects the quality of bench players they can obtain.

    Sorting the players by minutes played outside the top 5 (Towns, Wiggins, Covington, Teague, Okogie), the next 3 are Jarrett Culver, Treveon Graham, and Jake Layman. Culver as a rookie is the only one you'd expect to be bad, while the other two are 4th year players. The 3 of them are a combined -1 wins.

    Using the same methodology, looking at some different winning teams players 5-8 in minutes played are +3.7 wins (Boston), +5.7 wins (Dallas), +2.3 wins (Denver), +1.81 (Houston). Now I'm looking at a specific metric, you can look at any metric you'd like: PER, WS, BPM, RPM, etc. After the Wolves top 5 there is a huge drop off in effectiveness.

    The bench players the Wolves choose to play suck. They HAVE good bench players, or at least not bad bench players, in Dieng, Bates-Diop, Vonleh, Napier. None of them have over 260 minutes played. When you give bad players big minutes it costs you wins.

  9. #9
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    We are an average to just below team that was playing slightly above our level. We are in a new/modern system without the supporting cast that fits great for it. We lack a play making perimeter threat to create for the offense and are near the bottom in 3p% (although we are shooting a lot of them now).

    With his defense Teague is probably a net negative overall on the court and even offensively he seems to dribble the air out of the ball a bit at times (it seems like he is getting numbers without making plays that actually help just due to time with the ball, he is above guys like Mitchell/Lebron and just below Kyrie in avg time with ball). I don't think he is a very good pg tbh although not overly bad either and our best option but long term this should be his last year here. As for Wiggins the best thing about his play in the mind of Twolves fans is he might have trade value to someone. Both of them are better with the ball in their hands and are having solid seasons. We need better spacing around them as well.

    Culver has been disappointing, gotta give him time overall but the shot does seem like it could be an issue long term.

    I think the fix is moving the pieces that aren't long term for any value possible and/or to create cap space. Teague expiring, Wiggins, Dieng contract expiring next yr to use in offseason. Any of our role players should be available if it gets anything. We need to keep trying to build value and create opportunities to improve even if we miss (for example going for Russell last offseason even though we missed late is the type of stuff we should try).

    Really this team needs to find a way to get a legit playmaking/perimeter star next to Towns then fill the team with the 3/d types who can truly space out the floor. Obviously if possible having Culver develop or another 3rd option to create off the perimeter would also be great/needed to really compete but first things first finding a way to get another stud. Wiggins is improved but is not a star and Teague is solid but same type of thing and both of their defense hurts the team to negate their positives right now they do bring offensively.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    I don't watch Wolves games, so this is from a stats perspective. Wiggins isn't "good". He's average on high volume, which is good for Wiggins but bad in general if you want to be over .500. And he's on a max contract. I bring up his contract because that directly affects the quality of bench players they can obtain.

    Sorting the players by minutes played outside the top 5 (Towns, Wiggins, Covington, Teague, Okogie), the next 3 are Jarrett Culver, Treveon Graham, and Jake Layman. Culver as a rookie is the only one you'd expect to be bad, while the other two are 4th year players. The 3 of them are a combined -1 wins.

    Using the same methodology, looking at some different winning teams players 5-8 in minutes played are +3.7 wins (Boston), +5.7 wins (Dallas), +2.3 wins (Denver), +1.81 (Houston). Now I'm looking at a specific metric, you can look at any metric you'd like: PER, WS, BPM, RPM, etc. After the Wolves top 5 there is a huge drop off in effectiveness.

    The bench players the Wolves choose to play suck. They HAVE good bench players, or at least not bad bench players, in Dieng, Bates-Diop, Vonleh, Napier. None of them have over 260 minutes played. When you give bad players big minutes it costs you wins.
    Graham started out ok but has been pretty bad and gets a lot of minutes. KBD should be playing more imo. Dieng can really only play when Towns is off the court. Napier and Vonleh haven't been that good anyways but Napier has injury stuff too holding back those minutes. You did hit on something here though in the rotations being an issue and just not having much talent after the first set of guys. So we have Teague/Wiggins as our best creators on perimeter and these are the options to give the ball to when it's not with them. We rely so heavily on Towns offense/taking attention at this point.

  11. #11
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    Maybe playing some defense could do wonder for them

  12. #12
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    Yeah playing defense is the main problem

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZNC View Post
    Towns puts up fake stats and plays no defense. He's an excellent Robin but he ain't no Batman. And they are putrid as a whole on defense. Just same old same old.
    And Harden, Mitchell, Jokic, Fox and Booker are better defenders?

    We're not talking about them winning championships with this core. We're merely talking about making the playoffs or being a .500 team.

    If Vucevic can lead the Magic to the playoffs as the best offensive player then Towns can lead the Wolves. Towns offense is efficient. It's clearly not the problem. If you say it's his defense I can agree somewhat. But what's the fix then? Trade him for what? What defensive role players would be ideal around him?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    And Harden, Mitchell, Jokic, Fox and Booker are better defenders?

    We're not talking about them winning championships with this core. We're merely talking about making the playoffs or being a .500 team.

    If Vucevic can lead the Magic to the playoffs add the best offensive player then Towns can lead the Wolves. Towns offense is efficient. It's clearly not the problem. If you say it's his defense I can agree somewhat. But what's the fix then? Trade him for what?
    Meh, Magic playing in the East is much different than the Wolves in the West.

    I think if in the East the Wolves would've made the playoffs more than once since KAT and Wiggins paired up.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    Wiggins isn't "good". He's average on high volume, which is good for Wiggins but bad in general if you want to be over .500.
    When I say good I don't mean anyone is fawning over him or putting trade suggestions for their team to go get him. I mean he's doing an adequate job.

    He's statistically similar to what DeRozan was last year when he led SAS to the playoffs with a winning record. Similar TS%, WS/48 and VORP. So he's clearly not "the" limiting factor with the team anymore. He could definitely improve a lot defensively but overall he's fine.

    The Wolves beat Miami early in the season and basically Wiggins won them that game. I can't say I've watched every game of his obviously though.

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