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  1. #91
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    Mets and Cespedes amend contract

    Here it is once more:

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...7#post33293927

    Just looking at FIP and fWAR is lazy as ****. These kinds of plays are the difference between making the playoffs and missing the playoffs. Itís not the outs you get, itís when you get them. The Mets pitching staff as a whole was one of the worst in the game in the 1st half when it came to making clutch outs. That explains why our record was so piss-poor.

    Brodie is banking on better fortune pitching-wise with a similar offense and better defense. That should be enough to make the playoffs.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 12-16-2019 at 06:51 PM.

  2. #92
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    Mets and Cespedes amend contract

    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Ok, but let's see if Davis is anything more than a one-year flash before anointing him the second coming of Rogers Hornsby. I'm also curious to see what Yoenis looks like in Spring Training. A motivated Yoenis can carry a team on his shoulders. But yeah, your point about the two-year hiatus is a fair one, too.

    I'm just not ready to make any assumptions about either player right now. Yes, we all liked what we saw from JD last year. But let's see him do it again. And yes, Yoenis has been absent the last two years. But let's see if he has anything left in the tank. Because no, you're not getting rid of his salary. You're not trading him.
    You donít think someone desperate for offense in the outfield would take a chance on Cespedes for $10m? Itís only one year. If he was a FA right now, heíd already be one of the best OF options available.

    But JD Davis looks absolutely legit. He was arguably our most consistent offensive player on the team. The ball flies off his bat and he has power to all fields. Heís got very good plate discipline and was a good 2-strike hitter who hit over .300 in 453 PA.

    Iím more concerned with his defense as opposed to his offense. I think he will hit no matter what, but he needs to find a position he can play decently well. Iím hoping he looks better in the outfield next year otherwise getting him to improve at 3B might be the only answer outside of trading him elsewhere.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    He was the 10th best pitcher in the NL in the 1st half of the season last season. I don't understand how you think that was bad.
    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...ate=2019-12-31
    I watched every game, as I am sure you did. He was bad......One stat doesn't tell the entire story. YounStunna has another stat that says he was one of the worst. I am more inclined to go with the latter not because it fits my narrative but because I remember watching him. He was BAD in the first 1-2 months I remember calling for him to be sent down at one point early on to figure it out.

    I think it's fair to say looking at his entire career that one can be skeptical on long term success. Mostly because he hasn't had any sustained success since entering the league in 2013. He was injured, or had control issues, or allowed too many homeruns for YEARS. He has 1.5 dominant seasons since 2013 and you think it's a given that he's going to have 5 straight years of it at 118 million dollars. I've ackowledged he has the potential to finally start having consistency since his injuries seem to behind him. I don't think he's a bad pitcher by any means, but I don't think it's a bad take to look at his body of work and think it might be a major risk.
    Just a Met's fan surrounded by Phillies fan's standing strong behind enemy lines

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Thatís revisionist history facts.

    No one that actually watched Wheeler in the 1st half would think that is true. Maybe you should re-watch the games or take the time to look at my post in the Wheeler thread that youíve failed to acknowledge.

    Thereís absolutely no comparison between deGrom and Wheeler in the 1st half. However FIP and fWAR believe that they were almost similar pitchers in the 1st half (3.2 to 2.6 fWAR respectively).

    Sorry, nope! Not buying it.
    So I should buy your eye test. Nope not buying it.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Here it is once more:

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...7#post33293927

    Just looking at FIP and fWAR is lazy as ****. These kinds of plays are the difference between making the playoffs and missing the playoffs. Itís not the outs you get, itís when you get them. The Mets pitching staff as a whole was one of the worst in the game in the 1st half when it came to making clutch outs. That explains why our record was so piss-poor.

    Brodie is banking on better fortune pitching-wise with a similar offense and better defense. That should be enough to make the playoffs.
    If you are going to use WPA, you might as use ERA and ****ing WHIP.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    So I should buy your eye test. Nope not buying it.
    Itís not an eye test dude LOL

    This really isnít hard to understand.

    You really believe that deGrom was only worth 0.6 wins more than Wheeler in the 1st half? Seriously?

  7. #97
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    Mets and Cespedes amend contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    If you are going to use WPA, you might as use ERA and ****ing WHIP.
    Wheeler in low leverage situations: .226/.276/.333
    Wheeler in med leverage situations: .273/.318/.414
    Wheeler in high leverage situations: .405/.396/.690

    Progressively worse the higher the stakes got. Since you seemingly ignored my post once again, I can only guess you didnít want to see your boy Wheeler get crushed and killing the Mets in those videos. These stats are for the whole season too, I canít imagine how AWFUL these numbers were in the 1st half alone.

    So yeah, Iíll definitely use WPA and ERA. WHIP is a pretty pointless and lazy stat.

    You should read this article, maybe youíll learn something about using FIP on itís own:

    https://diamond-digest.com/2018/11/2...ous-using-fip/

    You havenít really come back with anything other than, ďhis FIP was 10th in MLB over the last 2 years making him the 10th best pitcher in MLB.Ē I get that you like Wheeler, but I feel like youíre better than that.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 12-16-2019 at 11:08 PM.

  8. #98
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    Mets and Cespedes amend contract

    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheKing30 View Post
    I watched every game, as I am sure you did. He was bad......One stat doesn't tell the entire story. YounStunna has another stat that says he was one of the worst. I am more inclined to go with the latter not because it fits my narrative but because I remember watching him. He was BAD in the first 1-2 months I remember calling for him to be sent down at one point early on to figure it out.

    I think it's fair to say looking at his entire career that one can be skeptical on long term success. Mostly because he hasn't had any sustained success since entering the league in 2013. He was injured, or had control issues, or allowed too many homeruns for YEARS. He has 1.5 dominant seasons since 2013 and you think it's a given that he's going to have 5 straight years of it at 118 million dollars. I've ackowledged he has the potential to finally start having consistency since his injuries seem to behind him. I don't think he's a bad pitcher by any means, but I don't think it's a bad take to look at his body of work and think it might be a major risk.
    Exactly.

    l wonít go as far to say he was the 2nd worst pitcher in the 1st half, but I think thatís more accurate than being one of the best. Thatís for damn sure.

    I loved Wheeler in 2018 and advocated extending him if the price was right. But 2019 was a major disappointment in my view as he did not build on his 2018 2nd half and did not help win enough games.

    The results simply werenít there period. He was so much better in 2018 and itís not even close.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 12-16-2019 at 11:09 PM.

  9. #99
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    You have to judge a player by the entirety of their season, not just the first 2 months or the last 3.


    Overall Wheeler has put together 2 straight very good years. That is undeniable.

    And yet he still probably underachieved and has yet to reach his peak production. The fangraphs article I posted above goes into good detail about how and why, and how he could make a slight adjustment to his approach and become ace level dominant.

    I think we should revisit the Wheeler issue at seasons end and see if heís made the leap to Cy Young caliber or if heís still floundering at a couple of levels below.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    You have to judge a player by the entirety of their season, not just the first 2 months or the last 3.


    Overall Wheeler has put together 2 straight very good years. That is undeniable.

    And yet he still probably underachieved and has yet to reach his peak production. The fangraphs article I posted above goes into good detail about how and why, and how he could make a slight adjustment to his approach and become ace level dominant.

    I think we should revisit the Wheeler issue at seasons end and see if heís made the leap to Cy Young caliber or if heís still floundering at a couple of levels below.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is my exact point in a nutshell.....He has had some good stretches but he still needs to make improvements and adjustment to become an ace. He hasn't been one yet. I think he will be up and down over the 5 year contract with some dominant runs and some rough ones.

    2018 he was dominant, 2019 he wasn't he was just alright. His ERA almost ballooned up over 4.00 because of his first half which is crazy considering how good he was in the second half (4.69 ERA pre AS break, 3.32 ERA post AS Break). I know ERA isn't the end all be all, but that's why were talking about his season in two different halves because of how different his play was.
    Last edited by ImTheKing30; 12-17-2019 at 01:54 AM.
    Just a Met's fan surrounded by Phillies fan's standing strong behind enemy lines

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Well if youíre willing to give him 5/100, what he got isnít really THAT much more. I wouldíve been reluctant to give him that 5th year. 4/76 would have been my offer, take it or leave it.

    Also the thing I still worry about Wheeler is his control. It wouldnít surprise me if he lost the strikezone like heís done in the past. Itís not likely with the improvements heís made, but you never know. Heís got his big contract and heís playing with a new team so lets see if he can handle this.
    I was looking at some Wheeler articles and found this one. Twins offered exactly what I was saying would be my guess that teams were offering 5/100. I wonder if this was most of the teams, and the Phillies wanting to make sure they landed their big name went the extra bump to 118 to get him.

    http://www.startribune.com/twins-mad...ies/565804332/
    Just a Met's fan surrounded by Phillies fan's standing strong behind enemy lines

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Wheeler in low leverage situations: .226/.276/.333
    Wheeler in med leverage situations: .273/.318/.414
    Wheeler in high leverage situations: .405/.396/.690

    Progressively worse the higher the stakes got. Since you seemingly ignored my post once again, I can only guess you didnít want to see your boy Wheeler get crushed and killing the Mets in those videos. These stats are for the whole season too, I canít imagine how AWFUL these numbers were in the 1st half alone.

    So yeah, Iíll definitely use WPA and ERA. WHIP is a pretty pointless and lazy stat.

    You should read this article, maybe youíll learn something about using FIP on itís own:

    https://diamond-digest.com/2018/11/2...ous-using-fip/

    You havenít really come back with anything other than, ďhis FIP was 10th in MLB over the last 2 years making him the 10th best pitcher in MLB.Ē I get that you like Wheeler, but I feel like youíre better than that.
    Thatís 50 TBF in high leverage situations, talk about small sample size. But by all means use that stat to illustrate your narrative.

    Men in scoring position-total batter faced (TBF) 204

    .258/.305/.382wOBA.282 and a FIP of 3.19


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    You have to judge a player by the entirety of their season, not just the first 2 months or the last 3.


    Overall Wheeler has put together 2 straight very good years. That is undeniable.

    And yet he still probably underachieved and has yet to reach his peak production. The fangraphs article I posted above goes into good detail about how and why, and how he could make a slight adjustment to his approach and become ace level dominant.

    I think we should revisit the Wheeler issue at seasons end and see if heís made the leap to Cy Young caliber or if heís still floundering at a couple of levels below.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Should have signed Wheeler long term when we had the chance a year ago. Could have probably had him pretty cheap relatively speaking.

  14. #104
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    In the end with this cash strapped team, it was probably for the best to let Wheeler leave. It is a shame that this starting staff is reduced to Noah & Jacob and a whole bunch of question marks.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    In the end with this cash strapped team, it was probably for the best to let Wheeler leave. It is a shame that this starting staff is reduced to Noah & Jacob and a whole bunch of question marks.
    And no legitimate pitching prospects on the horizon

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