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Thread: Is this racist?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Why does that matter? I personally donít believe we should believe everyone, all the time. Some people tell the truth, some people lie, some people misinterpret, some people are racist a holes. We have to vet the individual making the claim and then obviously the individual the claim is being made against to determine the validity of the claim. Obviously having factual evidence helps with any claim.
    Nowhere did I say we should believe everyone. Would you have believed this person absent the recording?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Nowhere did I say we should believe everyone. Would you have believed this person absent the recording?
    As I said, without the recording, I would have to vet the person making the claim as well as the person accused of it to make that determination. Furthermore, Iíd have to vet the company itself to attempt to understand what they gain from not granting this man, who obviously has the financial means, access to a private banker.

    Personally, I never understand how we can make the claim the companies are both greedy/financially motivated as well as racist. The guy already placed $800k in his account there so itís not as if the company assumed because he was black he didnít have the finances. And itís not like the employee didnít want to work with the guy because of some racial bias. Furthermore, we donít know he was denied this access because of his race/size. We know what the employee said and that he was denied the access. Iíd be curious to find out if there is some type of legit cause we donít know about or in the very least, the banks ďreasoningĒ ,factual or not, for denying the access.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    As I said, without the recording, I would have to vet the person making the claim as well as the person accused of it to make that determination. Furthermore, Iíd have to vet the company itself to attempt to understand what they gain from not granting this man, who obviously has the financial means, access to a private banker.

    Personally, I never understand how we can make the claim the companies are both greedy/financially motivated as well as racist. The guy already placed $800k in his account there so itís not as if the company assumed because he was black he didnít have the finances. And itís not like the employee didnít want to work with the guy because of some racial bias. Furthermore, we donít know he was denied this access because of his race/size. We know what the employee said and that he was denied the access. Iíd be curious to find out if there is some type of legit cause we donít know about or in the very least, the banks ďreasoningĒ ,factual or not, for denying the access.
    Well vet this manís integrity and the company now, would you believe him absent the recording?

    And the very reason they are discriminating against him in this case is because of greed, they are saying that having a big black client drives away other customers. A company can be both greedy and racist.

    But more to the point: you apparently donít believe this was racist even though we have a recording of an employee stating the reasoning for denying him was because of his race lol.

    People say racism is thrown around too much and it makes it hard to believe the claims when itís said so much, but apparently even having audio isnít enough.

  4. #19
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    you got em Vlade!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well vet this manís integrity and the company now, would you believe him absent the recording?

    And the very reason they are discriminating against him in this case is because of greed, they are saying that having a big black client drives away other customers. A company can be both greedy and racist.

    But more to the point: you apparently donít believe this was racist even though we have a recording of an employee stating the reasoning for denying him was because of his race lol.

    People say racism is thrown around too much and it makes it hard to believe the claims when itís said so much, but apparently even having audio isnít enough.
    Again, you want an argument/debate with the cartoon character version of me you have created in your own mind. You asked would I believe him absent the recording and Iím taking you through my thought process. Then you accuse me of making the assertion that this wasnít racism in some form when I clearly said the statement is racist. And if they denied him for that reason, then of course itís racist. I also know thereís typically more to these stories than printed in a newspaper since they only print the version they believe will sell. As for vetting this situation, itís not really possible based solely on the given info.

    But Iíll let you get back to the fight you want with me in your head...

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Again, you want an argument/debate with the cartoon character version of me you have created in your own mind. You asked would I believe him absent the recording and Iím taking you through my thought process. Then you accuse me of making the assertion that this wasnít racism in some form when I clearly said the statement is racist. And if they denied him for that reason, then of course itís racist. I also know thereís typically more to these stories than printed in a newspaper since they only print the version they believe will sell. As for vetting this situation, itís not really possible based solely on the given info.

    But Iíll let you get back to the fight you want with me in your head...
    Well itís good to know youíre giving the benefit of the doubt to the bank despite a recording of their employee stating why he was denied.

    One would hope in the future you give the benefit of the doubt to people saying they were discriminated against based on the same level of evidence you have for the bank here (which is to say none).

  7. #22
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    yes its racist... the only way its not is if the dude is big and white.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well itís good to know youíre giving the benefit of the doubt to the bank despite a recording of their employee stating why he was denied.

    One would hope in the future you give the benefit of the doubt to people saying they were discriminated against based on the same level of evidence you have for the bank here (which is to say none).
    I tend to give the one being accused of something the benefit of the doubt before hearing all the information from both sides prior to judging them. I tend to, you know, believe people are innocent until proven guilty.

    I tend to disagree with the mentality that we should believe all accusers immediately without some type of direct evidence. While we can respect their claim and respect them, in the process, innocence must be presumed. People believed Carolyn Bryant immediately and Emmitt Till paid the price. Thatís the type of mentality you get from presuming guilt.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    So the employee perceives Arizona or some part of Arizona maybe just their Arizona office to be racist and passes it on to another person and that is indicative of systemic racism? Perhaps it could be a misperception by this employee rather than proof?
    Perhaps. But was the person denied the special private client status in the end?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Perhaps. But was the person denied the special private client status in the end?
    Exactly, which was obviously not an intelligent move by the banker. The guy has enough funds to be treated as a private client. The question is did he deny the private client status because he perceived the man would be treated with racism or because he was told to deny the status because the guy is a bigger than normal size minority? One would mean the banker, a black male, is wrong. The other would mean that thereís in the very least a higher up thatís racist and potentially thereís racist intent throughout the company when dealing with special clients and possibly more.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    I tend to give the one being accused of something the benefit of the doubt before hearing all the information from both sides prior to judging them. I tend to, you know, believe people are innocent until proven guilty.

    I tend to disagree with the mentality that we should believe all accusers immediately without some type of direct evidence. While we can respect their claim and respect them, in the process, innocence must be presumed. People believed Carolyn Bryant immediately and Emmitt Till paid the price. Thatís the type of mentality you get from presuming guilt.
    Well in this instance we actually have evidence, and your first response was ďif he were deniedĒ. If expresses doubt. So apparently even evidence isnít enough for you.

    I believe you give a lot of people the benefit of the doubt, I donít believe you extend this courtesy to those who accuse others of racism however.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well in this instance we actually have evidence, and your first response was ďif he were deniedĒ. If expresses doubt. So apparently even evidence isnít enough for you.

    I believe you give a lot of people the benefit of the doubt, I donít believe you extend this courtesy to those who accuse others of racism however.
    Donít take my words out of context to fit your the cartoon narrative youíve created in your head please. The rest of that quote was ď.... because he was big and black.Ē That means if the reasoning for him being denied was ....we know that he was denied and we know what was said by the (black) banker. We donít know the reason the company ďdeniedĒ him.Thats an important piece of evidence in which we donít have.

    Yes, you are right. Accusers, any accusers, donít get the benefit of the doubt because the burden of proof is on them. Thatís how our society should and typically does work, except in cases in which drive up newspapers sales and television viewership. The assumption of guilt in those cases is the issue and leads to us not being able to simply trust anyone making an accusation. Havenít we been burned enough? Do I really need to point out all of the false claims made over the previous couple of years and how ppl still believe them?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Donít take my words out of context to fit your the cartoon narrative youíve created in your head please. The rest of that quote was ď.... because he was big and black.Ē That means if the reasoning for him being denied was ....we know that he was denied and we know what was said by the (black) banker. We donít know the reason the company ďdeniedĒ him.Thats an important piece of evidence in which we donít have.

    Yes, you are right. Accusers, any accusers, donít get the benefit of the doubt because the burden of proof is on them. Thatís how our society should and typically does work, except in cases in which drive up newspapers sales and television viewership. The assumption of guilt in those cases is the issue and leads to us not being able to simply trust anyone making an accusation. Havenít we been burned enough? Do I really need to point out all of the false claims made over the previous couple of years and how ppl still believe them?
    And yet you never consider the flip side. How many people didnít have the foresight to record conversations like this and then are not believed? You wouldnít have believed this guy was even told the reason he was denied was that he was big and black had he not had the recording. To you heíd be just another false accusation.

    As for the evidence of why he was denied, do you really think a bank is going to put ďbecause heís blackĒ on the denial letter? You shouldnít take the banks word on why anymore than you should take his right?

    Also, nowhere did I ever say believe every accuser. But you should not disbelieve every accusation (and if you feel that is an unjust characterization of your beliefs, well perhaps you now know how you sound when you say I believe every accused).

    Stop trying to make everything absolutes. Hereís a crazy concept: you can believe an accuser without them having to believe every accusation.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    . I tend to, you know, believe people are innocent until proven guilty.
    Forgive me if I'm lumping you in with the rest of the Republicans, but that certainly didnt seem to be your approach throughout the Eric garner and other blacks shot by cops situations..
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    . We donít know the reason the company ďdeniedĒ him.Thats an important piece of evidence in which we donít have.

    ?
    They said because he is black, isnt that what this whole thread is about?
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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