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  1. #6646
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Hey look, you've yet again conflated "prep" and "effort". They're not the same.
    If a player doesn't bother warming up before the game and admits he just used the first few innings as their warm-up, and said others were doing the same, that's just darn lazy. What part of that do you fail to understand?

  2. #6647
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    Interesting that Contreras had the best year of his career under that same manager last season. So both Conteras and Baez had career years, and were some of the best at their position league wide, during this time they were supposedly unmotivated underachieving losers.

  3. #6648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sofnr View Post
    Interesting that Contreras had the best year of his career under that same manager last season. So both Conteras and Baez had career years, and were some of the best at their position league wide, during this time they were supposedly unmotivated underachieving losers.
    Baez and Contreras have never played under any other manager as full-time MLB regulars. These players are extremely physically talented.

    Do you think that if they put in 100% effort that they would have had achieved better results? And thus the team as a whole? Contreras thinks so, IN HIS OWN WORDS. So does Baez, IN HIS OWN WORDS.

    Any manager worth his paycheck should recognize when players aren't preparing to play properly, are hitting in tunnels and not hitting outside, aren't warming up before the game. Those players needed to be held accountable, Theo recognized it and he isn't even on the field half as much! ******* this half-a$$ed BS.

    Why are you people defending complacency. It boggles the mind.
    Last edited by Stratos; 02-20-2020 at 09:05 PM.

  4. #6649
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    532
    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    49-32 in the second half with that garbage offense. WOW, Maddon must have done an amazing job getting to win that many games. Seems crazy to blast him since they really were not that good and played at near a 100 win pace. How is that possible with all those lazy, unmotivated, ill prepared players.
    They were 40-30 in the 2nd half, by some miracle. Their pythagorean W/L was .500. Scoring as many runs as you let in isn't going to cut it. Scoring 1 run total at home among the divisional 1-game playoff and the 1-game wild card elimination in 2018 isn't going to cut it for a team clearly capable of winning a WS.

    What excuses are you going to make up for them now? If you're happy with 2018, great, i'm not. Not making the playoffs 2 years in a row is unacceptable for the talent on this team.

  5. #6650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    They were 40-30 in the 2nd half, by some miracle. Their pythagorean W/L was .500. Scoring as many runs as you let in isn't going to cut it. Scoring 1 run total at home among the divisional 1-game playoff and the 1-game wild card elimination in 2018 isn't going to cut it for a team clearly capable of winning a WS.

    What excuses are you going to make up for them now? If you're happy with 2018, great, i'm not. Not making the playoffs 2 years in a row is unacceptable for the talent on this team.
    The talent level of this team appeared to be 79-87 wins according to all projections. They played like a 90 win team, and won 84.

    Also Javier Baez on Joe Maddon:

    “What he did for the team was huge,” Baez said. “I’ve got nothing negative to say about him"

    “I think if it wouldn’t have been [for] him, I wouldn’t have been myself out there, and I would have so many rules to follow from other managers. I’m thankful for what he did for me and what I learned from him."

    “That [influence] was the reason why I was being me out there, having fun and doing all these things that nobody was able to do. And now you see a lot of people being themselves, and you can see the difference that it’s made in the game.”

    " He understands the human element of this game better than anyone I’ve ever been around.”

    IN HIS OWN WORDS

  6. #6651
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  7. #6652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    They were 40-30 in the 2nd half, by some miracle. Their pythagorean W/L was .500. Scoring as many runs as you let in isn't going to cut it. Scoring 1 run total at home among the divisional 1-game playoff and the 1-game wild card elimination in 2018 isn't going to cut it for a team clearly capable of winning a WS.

    What excuses are you going to make up for them now? If you're happy with 2018, great, i'm not. Not making the playoffs 2 years in a row is unacceptable for the talent on this team.
    But they did make the playoffs in 2018, regardless on how you feel about the Wild Card Game. So your “2 years not in the playoff” comment isn’t valid.

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  8. #6653
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    I can't fathom caring about whether any move helps the Yankees TBH. They're in the AL, most importantly. They're already heavy favorites to win their division and probably the pennant as well. It's not like you're giving a piece to get them over the hump.
    Well I can. The Yankees don't need help especially ours. I don't give a **** about the Yankees never have. They have almost everything and I don't like the idea of just giving them a pitcher just because. So you can't fathom caring about it, I can fathom caring about it. What a concept.
    Last edited by bootsy; 02-20-2020 at 10:19 PM.

  9. #6654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    If a player doesn't bother warming up before the game and admits he just used the first few innings as their warm-up, and said others were doing the same, that's just darn lazy. What part of that do you fail to understand?
    prepared: adjective; to be ready to used. synonyms; willing, ready, inclined
    effort: noun; vigorous attempt at something. synonyms; attempt, try, endeavor

    Notice how the two are not synonyms? It means that they mean different things. I don't understand how you're confusing the two, over and over again. One can both, simultaneously, be ill-prepared and show effort. Being ill-prepared can be as simple as forgetting to do something, or doing something else instead. It does not inherently show a lack of effort. Again, why they're not antonyms, either. I've already given real world examples to you of how one can be ill-prepared and then show great effort.

    Is this a player who shows a "lack of effort"? https://twitter.com/i/status/1141877104105181184
    Perhaps this is a player who shows that he doesn't put forth effort? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xJSMcXKtfo

    Both are plays from 2019. Both show immense hustle. And effort.

    And who was named "Hustle and Heart" player from the Cubs by Cubs alumni in the year of 2019? It's None other than Javier Baez himself

    We can play this game all day. So far 2018 has been refuted by literal statistics, and I don't know how much more I have to do to disprove a narrative that the Cubs lacked effort in 2019. The only real evidence you can provide for why the 2019 was a bunch of "premadonnas" or "lazy" or whatever is that Baez said he was "unprepared" (which, again, definitions prove the two words "prepared" and "effort" are neither synonyms nor interchangeable, meaning both can exist simultaneously). The same guy who you use as example of laziness is the same person who was the Hustle and Heart player for the team, and who clearly, wasn't lacking effort. Same player who with a broke hand, was willing to run the bases at the end of the year. That guy is your *best* evidence for a lazy team.

    Right.

  10. #6655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    They were 40-30 in the 2nd half, by some miracle. Their pythagorean W/L was .500. Scoring as many runs as you let in isn't going to cut it. Scoring 1 run total at home among the divisional 1-game playoff and the 1-game wild card elimination in 2018 isn't going to cut it for a team clearly capable of winning a WS.

    What excuses are you going to make up for them now? If you're happy with 2018, great, i'm not. Not making the playoffs 2 years in a row is unacceptable for the talent on this team.
    You're consistently moving goal posts. The original statement was not "Who is happy with the way 2018 ended?" it was something along the lines of "what a bunch of chokers who are lazy and full of themselves and premadonnas". Am I "happy" that the Cubs lost to the Brewers and the Rockies? Clearly, I'm not. I am however capable of the following things:
    1. Understanding the Cubs finished the year pretty damn well. They had an 18-10 record in August and a 16-12 in September. They had, basically, a game every day in September in a row, and Bryant was barely usable, and they still did this? Awesome
    2. That the Brewers had to play historically amazing baseball in September to win
    3. Two games cannot define 163. One game playoffs are what they are. And the Cubs could have won them. They didn't. It's sad. But it's two games. Two games does not a choke make.

    You're also showing cracks in your armor. Just a few weeks ago you argued that Maddon was a bad coach in 2019 because they have negative pythag in 2019. Now, the Maddon was a bad coach in 2018 because they had...positive pythag in 2018? You're just using whatever it is you think you can to further your narrative. Pick a side. You're having your cake and eating it too with your misuse of pythag.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 02-20-2020 at 10:31 PM.

  11. #6656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sofnr View Post
    “That [influence] was the reason why I was being me out there, having fun and doing all these things that nobody was able to do. And now you see a lot of people being themselves, and you can see the difference that it’s made in the game.”
    Maddon let all his players do just about whatever they wanted, for better and worse. The proof is in the pudding, the results speak for themselves, for better and worse. Why would a player not like that?

    It's not what the players want or like, it's what the team needs to win.

  12. #6657
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    532
    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    But they did make the playoffs in 2018, regardless on how you feel about the Wild Card Game. So your “2 years not in the playoff” comment isn’t valid.
    Well if you call that making the playoffs. Smashing success.

  13. #6658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Well if you call that making the playoffs. Smashing success.
    The Wild Card game is quite literally defined as a playoff game by the league who created it. Calling it anything but a playoff game is silly.

    Does it happen "after" the regular season? Then it's apart of the post-season. End of discussion.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  14. #6659
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    532
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    prepared: adjective; to be ready to used. synonyms; willing, ready, inclined
    effort: noun; vigorous attempt at something. synonyms; attempt, try, endeavor

    Notice how the two are not synonyms? It means that they mean different things. I don't understand how you're confusing the two, over and over again. One can both, simultaneously, be ill-prepared and show effort. Being ill-prepared can be as simple as forgetting to do something, or doing something else instead. It does not inherently show a lack of effort. Again, why they're not antonyms, either. I've already given real world examples to you of how one can be ill-prepared and then show great effort.

  15. #6660
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    Jul 2019
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    532
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Is this a player who shows a "lack of effort"? https://twitter.com/i/status/1141877104105181184
    Perhaps this is a player who shows that he doesn't put forth effort? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xJSMcXKtfo

    Both are plays from 2019. Both show immense hustle. And effort.


    Let's agree to disagree on the terms Baez did or didn't do. The fact is Baez did not do what he should have been doing before the game in order to maximize his ability to perform and the Cubs chances of winning, and the coaching staff let it happen too. Accountability.
    Last edited by Stratos; 02-21-2020 at 12:18 AM.

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