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  1. #1291
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    9,049
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I wouldn't. I trust the Verdugo bat over the Robles bat. Robles has him on defense and base running, but I like the Verdugo approach and bat more today. Robles was worth 2.5 fWAR in 617 PA's last year. Verdugo was 2.2 fWAR in 300. Robles might have a higher ceiling, but I'm in camp Verdugo.

    That said I'm fine being in a bit of an outlier there. I'm aware some (probably most) prefer Robles.
    Not much argument here.

    I prefer Robles ceiling to Verdugo's, though.

  2. #1292
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    199
    If we did trade with the nats, it wouldn’t just be kb for robles, right? There’s absolutely no way we can trade kb with zero young pitchers coming back.

  3. #1293
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    14,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Freezee View Post
    If we did trade with the nats, it wouldn’t just be kb for robles, right? There’s absolutely no way we can trade kb with zero young pitchers coming back.
    If the cubs got Robles I seriously doubt they get a pitcher too. Have to get that in a Contreras trade.

  4. #1294
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    85,254
    So it took 25 members of the Cubs organization to come home from winter meetings with a rule 5 pick and an extra 100K?

  5. #1295
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    Apr 2008
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    9,049
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    So it took 25 members of the Cubs organization to come home from winter meetings with a rule 5 pick and an extra 100K?
    That pretty much sums it up, Dawk!

  6. #1296
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    If the cubs got Robles I seriously doubt they get a pitcher too. Have to get that in a Contreras trade.
    I would not be ok with that. But wtf do I know.

  7. #1297
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles County, CA
    Posts
    44,566
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I wouldn't. I trust the Verdugo bat over the Robles bat. Robles has him on defense and base running, but I like the Verdugo approach and bat more today. Robles was worth 2.5 fWAR in 617 PA's last year. Verdugo was 2.2 fWAR in 300. Robles might have a higher ceiling, but I'm in camp Verdugo.

    That said I'm fine being in a bit of an outlier there. I'm aware some (probably most) prefer Robles.
    Robles bat is pretty bad. Not only is his plate discipline meh but he averaged 81 on his EV. I'd be interested in seeing how much his milb numbers were inflated by infield singles and bloopers turned doubles. Their doesnt appear to be any strength yet. I'd prefer Verdugo as well, even though his defense is likely nothing great.

  8. #1298
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles County, CA
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    44,566
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    So it took 25 members of the Cubs organization to come home from winter meetings with a rule 5 pick and an extra 100K?
    The good news is that they didn't take the ****** offers they got, I guess.

  9. #1299
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Honestly, too many words. I stopped reading. But I will agree to stop putting words in your mouth when you stop calling posters spoiled or me negative because we feel the Cubs should never be under the luxury tax. Sorry, a lot of people feel that is ridiculous. As is calling me negative. I would bet 90% or more if my posts are positive. If anything, most would accuse me of being too positive. As for this discussion, we just disagree. Not a big deal. But you AND I need to cut down the chapters we write. Deal?
    Dude whatever, not worth it. no one knows for sure and a bunch of assumptions are being made. which has been my argument. while they haven't spend on the big league team they have spend massively in other areas. Too much words seems like a easy cope out, because you ask a question and when presented the response is oh too much too much to read. There are loads of articles including those just after the season and during winter meetings, where the motivation that have been implied has not been the tax but change and a belief that they would not be able to resign KB and everyone else.

    I also acknowledge the other side of the coin. kicking and stomping when not reading and doing your research to gather a full scope and demanding regardless to what that factors might be in play is being spoil, as the only position is the position of what we think or want to happen. I mean in each of the past years the budget has been stretched and opened yet we don't spend give me a break man.

    Read don't read your choice but then don't criticize and assume. because I have sided with you to a certain point and have not made any of my comments personal to anyone yet people react as such. If the only outcome is to criticizing without the facts and not fully taking other factors into account as for reasoning that is by definition being negative. and you are entitled to that opinion. no one said you were wrong for being disappointed.

  10. #1300
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    There’s like 20 things I disagree with in this 5000 word reply to a 2 word post.

    How did you get “prospect development is linear” from “They can spend to compete while developing prospects?”

    The best prospects aren’t 2-3 years away. Nico is arguably ready. Marquez can be up this year. Amaya is on the 40 man now and in AA to start 2020.

    The Cubs can afford to keep their best players.

    I could go through every detail, but I think what all of this comes down to is that you are going to defend the owners no matter what. You think any complaint about spending is unfair. They spent over the tax twice. Once they did it and won 84 games and made everyone lose their minds. The other time they did it they won the World Series.

    Every contract isn’t going to be a winning investment, but the total of what they have gotten for what they have spent has been a winning investment. So they don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Nobody thinks player expenses are the only expenses. Zero people have said that. I think you are being willfully obtuse about the trends in mlb ownerships pouring baseball revenue into things like real estate developments and then crying poor when it comes to maintaining % of revenues towards the product of baseball. You mention an article that about Justin Stone where he said they spent millions on his tech requests. I’m the one who posted that article. That’s not what it said. He said he requested a million dollars worth of technology on his first day and that one of the top request items was approved. It doesn’t say they spent millions. Everything they’ve spent on these new additions is less than the difference between what they were paying Maddon and what they are paying Ross. I’d bet on that. And they should be making those investments. They are very minor investments that can save them money in the long run.

    You can keep saying you aren’t defending the Ricketts, but that’s all you are doing. I think you’d be happier as a Rays fan. Big market teams need to spend money and when you spend money sometimes you spend bad money. You are not going to convince me that this team can’t win if they respend to 2019 levels and that the Ricketts are incapable of spending at that level. They can do that. That’s all people are asking for. Spend the same amount you spent in 2019. Nobody is asking for a $300 million payroll here. Just don’t cut it by $30 million in a year where they can win. It’s not an unreasonable expectation.
    I have limited time so try to get everything in to one post. but will try keep it short.

    The linear comment is as combination response to your reaction to doing both. While possible building on that assumption is dangerous. As prospects development go up and down. if it happens ill be as happy as anyone.

    Yes I totally agree cubs should and can afford to resign their players, but that is a two way street. Maybe this is a ploy to get KB price down a bit, who knows but the fact is he is still not extended and only have two years of control left would be bad business practice not to entertain the idea. plus i find it hard to believe the FO just decided to try trade him without checking in to get an idea as to what that cost may be. which bring us to where we are now simple. There loads of snippets and articles out there that lends validity to this theory more so than the tax line.

    I just want to win and I'm ok with a step back to accomplish that if it mean not having to endure 5 years of suffering if everyone leaves.

  11. #1301
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    So it took 25 members of the Cubs organization to come home from winter meetings with a rule 5 pick and an extra 100K?
    hahaha when you put it that way it does sound inspiring doesnt it? lol

  12. #1302
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    554
    If I'm trading with the Dodgers, I have to get May back.

  13. #1303
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,759
    Hey there is lots of off-season left. They haven't revealed anything to anyone yet. wait and see what happens if they stand pat I'll join everyone in bashing them, I'll even send a PSD approved email asking ricketts to sell the team as futile as it may be.

  14. #1304
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    57,722
    Just a skim through and honestly every name mentioned in a possible KB trade so far if made would literally have me questioning my ability to continue watching this team. I mean this is becoming so absurd I can't even believe half of what I am reading.

    Watching him being traded in any form to me is my lifetime equivalent of trading Maddox. I really don't know how you come back from the mistake that is starting to look like it may be made. There isn't many packages right now that I can come up with that anyone has even entertained that would make me feel comfortable with trading away KB.

    Really step back and realize you are trading more then likely a first ballot HoF player with tons of miles left. How do you possibly make this remotely worth it.

  15. #1305
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    554
    Quote Originally Posted by northsider View Post
    Just a skim through and honestly every name mentioned in a possible KB trade so far if made would literally have me questioning my ability to continue watching this team. I mean this is becoming so absurd I can't even believe half of what I am reading.

    Watching him being traded in any form to me is my lifetime equivalent of trading Maddox. I really don't know how you come back from the mistake that is starting to look like it may be made. There isn't many packages right now that I can come up with that anyone has even entertained that would make me feel comfortable with trading away KB.

    Really step back and realize you are trading more then likely a first ballot HoF player with tons of miles left. How do you possibly make this remotely worth it.
    I can come up with some trade scenarios that would make it worth it to trade KB. Obviously they other team would have to agree as well. I want to keep KB and the band together and take 2 shots at winning it all again, but there is risk in keeping KB and extending him as well. Is he going to be the 6-7 WAR guy that we expect, or is he going to fit in at 3.5-4.5 WAR guy he was last year?

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