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  1. #3226
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    I disagree. I think making roster moves without knowing the exact status on Bryant would be more inept then waiting for find out. Not the Cubs fault this is taking so long.
    If the Cubs arenít planning on trading Bryant and they just let 2/3rds of the offseason pass and most of the good free agent fits sign elsewhere without spending a single guaranteed dollar, thatís pretty terrible.

    The fact that the Cubs wonít spend a dollar or trade anyone else until the grievance is resolved has to say something about their intentions with Bryant. Maybe it works out, maybe not, but those things arenít unrelated.

  2. #3227
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    I disagree. I think making roster moves without knowing the exact status on Bryant would be more inept then waiting for find out. Not the Cubs fault this is taking so long.
    The grievance isn't going to change the outlook of Bryant on the 2020 team. You can build a team, sign players, make other trades, etc, in planning for 2020 without that information, though. Realistically, the only major things his grievance changes is 1) His 2021 status and 2) Trade value.

    I don't think it's hard to see the correlation between the Cubs not spending a single dollar and waiting for this grievance to deal Bryant.

    You're right, it's not the Cubs fault it's taking this long. But it *would* be their fault if they sat on their hands, did nothing all offseason until mid-to-late January for a grievance and then went "alright. Let's go sign some free agents!" when they could have done that in November.

  3. #3228
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    The grievance isn't going to change the outlook of Bryant on the 2020 team. You can build a team, sign players, make other trades, etc, in planning for 2020 without that information, though. Realistically, the only major things his grievance changes is 1) His 2021 status and 2) Trade value.

    I don't think it's hard to see the correlation between the Cubs not spending a single dollar and waiting for this grievance to deal Bryant.

    You're right, it's not the Cubs fault it's taking this long. But it *would* be their fault if they sat on their hands, did nothing all offseason until mid-to-late January for a grievance and then went "alright. Let's go sign some free agents!" when they could have done that in November.
    If youíre not sure of the offers youíre getting, itís hard to sign anyone. Spend your money on Shogo and a starter, but you might potentially block the best available prospects in return. Spending 16 million on a few guys necessitates you trade KB and may create a situation where teams lowball you because they know you have to get under 208. Itís frustrating, but I understand the wait

  4. #3229
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    If the Cubs arenít planning on trading Bryant and they just let 2/3rds of the offseason pass and most of the good free agent fits sign elsewhere without spending a single guaranteed dollar, thatís pretty terrible.

    The fact that the Cubs wonít spend a dollar or trade anyone else until the grievance is resolved has to say something about their intentions with Bryant. Maybe it works out, maybe not, but those things arenít unrelated.
    Pretty sure the Bryant decision has no bearing on the Cubs plan not to go over the LT. Again, IMO Bryantís status has no bearing in what the Cubs were going to spend. Doesnít matter. I am not going to convince you or 1908 that the Cubs basically had to wait no matter what they eventually do and you are not going to convince me that them waiting means they are definitely trading him. In the end, we all agree it is more likely he is traded. I just donít feel the inaction until now means anything.

  5. #3230
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfoley89 View Post
    If youíre not sure of the offers youíre getting, itís hard to sign anyone. Spend your money on Shogo and a starter, but you might potentially block the best available prospects in return. Spending 16 million on a few guys necessitates you trade KB and may create a situation where teams lowball you because they know you have to get under 208. Itís frustrating, but I understand the wait
    ...you proved my point, foley. Please read the entire conversation.

    I said that the entire offseason has waited on trading Bryant. You're not disproving my point. You're proving it.

  6. #3231
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfoley89 View Post
    If youíre not sure of the offers youíre getting, itís hard to sign anyone. Spend your money on Shogo and a starter, but you might potentially block the best available prospects in return. Spending 16 million on a few guys necessitates you trade KB and may create a situation where teams lowball you because they know you have to get under 208. Itís frustrating, but I understand the wait
    Agreed.

  7. #3232
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    2019-20 Offseason Thread 2.0: Winter Meetings Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Pretty sure the Bryant decision has no bearing on the Cubs plan not to go over the LT. Again, IMO Bryantís status has no bearing in what the Cubs were going to spend. Doesnít matter. I am not going to convince you or 1908 that the Cubs basically had to wait no matter what they eventually do and you are not going to convince me that them waiting means they are definitely trading him. In the end, we all agree it is more likely he is traded. I just donít feel the inaction until now means anything.
    If the plan is not to trade KB, why would they need to wait for his grievance to be resolved to start the business of the offseason? Why would the grievance matter at all in terms of offseason moves if they plan to keep him?

    They can get under 208 right now by moving anyone else. The only reason theyíve done nothing to this point is that they are waiting on KB. The only reason to wait on KB before spending a dollar is because they intend to trade him. So the fact that theyíve done nothing is a statement about their intentions with Bryant.
    Last edited by CP_414; 01-12-2020 at 09:47 PM.

  8. #3233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sofnr View Post
    I mean I understand the sentiment. The Cubs have done nothing this offseason so it definitely feels like a waste if they don't pull the trigger on Bryant now and do a reset year. Although I still think trading him is a bad idea. But the priority can never be clearing salary with a guy this talented. You have to get a good return. There are other ways to clear salary. Now is definitely the best time to trade him. But if the offers aren't what you want then clear salary some other way, and look to your next option, whether that be talking extension some more, trading at the deadline, trying to piece together a good time again at the last minute. What you don't do is trade him for a bad return to clear salary. That's just awful. Kris Bryant should never be a salary dump.
    Theo isn't going to trade Bryant just to dump salary without a good return either. Bryant can play 3B and a corner OF, even 1B. There's a ton of teams that have needs in that area and would want to trade for him, I don't doubt they'll be able to find a suitor this offseason who can pony up.

    Also, there's no other realistic way to clear salary. Guys have no-trade clauses or their contracts are untradeable. Bryant won't be extended or resigned because Boras will ask for the moon, so he needs to be traded at some point.

    The shame is how Theo has painted the Cubs into this corner. Heyward was a crap signing and is eating $22 mil a year until 2024. Chatwood was overpaid, and Kimbrel was a desperation gamble that didn't work and is now a bad value. Paying anyone $16 mil a year to pitch 60 IP is stupid unless they're Mariano Rivera.

  9. #3234
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Agreed. But the only thing I will add is if they do not get the value they want for him they need to extend him. Now is decision time, IMO. They can get under a different way. They are right there, so it can be done. I am sure both sides know numbers that will get it done. Now is the time to decide if he is more valuable as a trade asset or in the team the next 7 or 8 years..
    Why would any sane team sign KB longterm? Anthony Rendon, a Boras client, just got a 7 year contract at 35 mil a year. Why would we want that when we could trade KB for a prime prospect(s) that will cost hardly anything in dollars? Anyone who wants to keep KB is thinking with their heart and not their head.

  10. #3235
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    I like the Rolen comp on Arenado, from whoever said that. Lots of similarities between the two. I loved Rolen and hated that he was a Cardinal. He should be in the Hall and Arenado has a really good chance to get there one day, too.

    Catching up from the last week, I see Rosenthal said itís more likely than not that Arenado is moved. I very much want the Cubs to make this happen. Letting him go to St. Louis would be a huge mistake. The odds of signing Betts are really low. He fits every roster and heís the only truly elite free agent next year, so heís probably looking at all the big money teams being in on his free agency and a final outcome around $400 million. The Cubs could effectively get Arenado for about half that amount now. Get it done.
    Why would you trade players/prospects for a guy making 35 million a year that we can't even afford??? It would make way more sense to extend Bryant for a similar salary, but I don't even want the Cubs to do that. Trade KB, get low salary prospects.

  11. #3236
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    If the plan is not to trade KB, why would they need to wait for his grievance to be resolved to start the business of the offseason? Why would the grievance matter at all in terms of offseason moves if they plan to keep him?

    They can get under 208 right now by moving anyone else. The only reason theyíve done nothing to this point is that they are waiting on KB. The only reason to wait on KB before spending a dollar is because they intend to trade him. So the fact that theyíve done nothing is a statement about their intentions with Bryant.
    Exactly. And what they're able to get back for KB will dictate which other free agents they will sign. Cubs are already over the luxury tax threshold and they don't even have any set-up men yet to replace Cishek and Kintzler and are missing a 5th starter to replace Hamels. This offseason we've lost 3 very good pieces and gained nothing, it's going to be hard going into Spring Training a better team than we were on Oct. 1st.

  12. #3237
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    2019-20 Offseason Thread 2.0: Winter Meetings Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Why would you trade players/prospects for a guy making 35 million a year that we can't even afford??? It would make way more sense to extend Bryant for a similar salary, but I don't even want the Cubs to do that. Trade KB, get low salary prospects.
    I reject the premise. They can afford Arenado. They can afford Arenado and get under the tax at the same time. They can afford to not get under the tax anyway, but even using that self-imposed requirement, they can afford him.

    Arenado is owed 7/234 with an opt out and a full NTC. The Rockies want value back for him. Based on the market we just saw with Rendon, Arenadoís contract doesnít have surplus value in terms of what teams would pay him on the open market. In order to trade him and get value back they need to take back bad money and/or eat money. So you bundle talent with bad money and effectively get Arenado at something like 7/200 while reducing the Cubs 2020 tax number. That gives you a player arguably as good as Bryant or better locked in for 7 years at a lower salary than Bryant would agree to and allows you to reset the tax in 2020. Colorado saves $200 million long term and gets some real talent back. Itíll cost the Cubs other talent, but theyíd have the ability to recoup a lot of value in a Bryant trade. Then lock in Javy and you have the left side of the infield set for the next long run. Itís basically the same as locking up Bryant and Baez, but much cheaper.
    Last edited by CP_414; 01-13-2020 at 01:34 AM.

  13. #3238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Why would you trade players/prospects for a guy making 35 million a year that we can't even afford??? It would make way more sense to extend Bryant for a similar salary, but I don't even want the Cubs to do that. Trade KB, get low salary prospects.
    I think they want Arenado at 35 mil because Bryant is asking for more, theres a reason why hes the one they want to move. All that lip service that he wants to remain in Chicago his entire career is bull ****. They would have extended Bryant at that price already.
    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    You're way more likeable

  14. #3239
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhyCantWeWin View Post
    I think they want Arenado at 35 mil because Bryant is asking for more, theres a reason why hes the one they want to move. All that lip service that he wants to remain in Chicago his entire career is bull ****. They would have extended Bryant at that price already.
    I don't doubt he wants to stay in Chicago, he's just not going to take a salary cut to do it.

  15. #3240
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    I reject the premise. They can afford Arenado. They can afford Arenado and get under the tax at the same time. They can afford to not get under the tax anyway, but even using that self-imposed requirement, they can afford him.

    Arenado is owed 7/234 with an opt out and a full NTC. The Rockies want value back for him. Based on the market we just saw with Rendon, Arenadoís contract doesnít have surplus value in terms of what teams would pay him on the open market. In order to trade him and get value back they need to take back bad money and/or eat money. So you bundle talent with bad money and effectively get Arenado at something like 7/200 while reducing the Cubs 2020 tax number. That gives you a player arguably as good as Bryant or better locked in for 7 years at a lower salary than Bryant would agree to and allows you to reset the tax in 2020. Colorado saves $200 million long term and gets some real talent back. Itíll cost the Cubs other talent, but theyíd have the ability to recoup a lot of value in a Bryant trade. Then lock in Javy and you have the left side of the infield set for the next long run. Itís basically the same as locking up Bryant and Baez, but much cheaper.
    Why would Colorado want to take on any of our dirty contracts when they're trying to dump salary? If anything it will probably be mostly a wash whichever contracts are swapped. Who do we have to trade for Arenado that Rockies would want and other teams couldn't easily match and surpass? Maybe Contreras? Schwarber? Why would we swap a cheap and good player for an extremely expensive and good player when we have payroll issues?

    There's a 0.001% chance we land Arenado this offseason or at any point. It's not happening. We need to shed payroll, not trade for one of the most expensive players in the MLB. The Cubs want prospects or cheap young players (preferably CF/2B/3B/rotation) for KB so they can afford to fix the holes left on this team, such as the set-up positions in the bullpen, fifth starting spot etc.

    We're over the luxury tax threshold and we don't even have a full roster of players yet.

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