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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Bolded…you would think that this would be an obvious point, wouldn't you?
    Sure, but municipalities wanting to have all the high taxes and regulatory negatives are going to be looking for other ways to bring in future tax revenue so they put together incentive packages for companies and teams.

  2. #32
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    Amazon moves to NYC despite *not* receiving $3 billion in tax-funded subsidies

    https://www.thenation.com/article/am...hq2-subsidies/

    Here is another article that gives the other side. It definitely seems like Amazon would be a net gain to the area overall. How big might be a little over stated if the area was growing rapidly anyway. On the other hand maybe the growth they experienced in the past 10 years was stagnanting, idk. there do seem to be other concerns though


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  3. #33
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    It's interesting that people just buy their numbers that these 25,000 jobs would have been created despite an eight of that being created without these massive government tax benefits. So does that mean that government would have "created" those 22,000 jobs? That sounds like a reaction to bad incentives if the private company could only create 3,000 jobs and the public spending would create the 22,000 jobs.

    Sounds like a win for NYC to not waste that money and I guess AOC for calling the bull**** out from Amazon.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    The easy answer is we should probably have aoc help trump with negotiations. She know how to get what she wants.

    She made amazon give into her demands
    I don't think she negotiated anything, she got some small part of the population riled up, got the media to talk about it, and made it not worth it for Amazon to put up with it.

    Google offered free unlimited internet to everyone in San Francisco. San Francisco made it such a pain in the *** that Google decided not to do it. It's not that they couldn't do it, nor was them not doing it good for San Francisco or the people there ... but I'm sure some people on the SF city council decided that it meant that they "won". They COULD have saved their citizens literally hundreds of millions of dollars with, from what I could see from looking at the contract, no downside to SF. All Google wanted was access to the city utility poles to install equipment ... no cost to SF, Google was even going to pay for the power for the wireless units.

    It sure looks to me like, in this case, NYC lost in the end. AOC didn't get Amazon's business out of NYC, they were there already, they were just looking for another place for administrative offices, and those will find a place elsewhere it seems.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It's interesting that people just buy their numbers that these 25,000 jobs would have been created despite an eight of that being created without these massive government tax benefits. So does that mean that government would have "created" those 22,000 jobs? That sounds like a reaction to bad incentives if the private company could only create 3,000 jobs and the public spending would create the 22,000 jobs.

    Sounds like a win for NYC to not waste that money and I guess AOC for calling the bull**** out from Amazon.
    I haven't seen anything that says this Amazon location and the previous Amazon location are going to have anything like the same purposes.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I haven't seen anything that says this Amazon location and the previous Amazon location are going to have anything like the same purposes.
    I agree that HQ deal and this seem like totally separate things. It’s kind of silly for AOC to be using this as an I told you so moment


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  7. #37
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    She does look great with her hair down though


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Football owners do it as well. Case in point, Chicago Cardinal became the St. Louis Cardinals then the Arizona Cardinals. Even the Chicago Bears try that stunt for a new stadium. Big business has been doing this for a while. Playing different cities for the honor of having their companies and jobs in their area. In Chicago, the Sears people got major tax benefits to set up in Chicago and major jobs were the promise that was never delivered. They still got the tax breaks.

    It's a moral victory in stopping Big business from holding cities hostages for the promise of jobs that aren't guaranteed.

    Maybe, the republicans can stop harping on AOC for chasing away jobs, or their encouraging Big Businesses to play the cities to pay less, much needed, taxes.
    Except the thing they were holding out for was a tax break, not a hand out, they would only get the money AFTER paying taxes, plus there is all the taxes on the employees, including payroll taxes and income taxes the city lost out on.
    It was a terrible decision.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    She does look great with her hair down though
    Cancelled

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    They're creating only 1,500 jobs instead of 25,000, they're doing it in another district, and those "subsides" were tax breaks that Amazon would only receive AFTRER paying taxes the city was never going to hand a dime over to the company, they were just going to give them SOME of their money back after paying taxes.

    Oh and they would have been able to tax the income of the 25k high paying jobs they would have gotten.
    Those companies NEVER create the astronomically high number of jobs that they promise and that their lobbyists promise. And these jobs wouldn't be brand new. No homeless people or low wage workers were going to get them. People were going to leave a job maybe making $1000-2000 less and going to them. So people making six figures were going to be making slightly higher six figure salaries.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Those companies NEVER create the astronomically high number of jobs that they promise and that their lobbyists promise. And these jobs wouldn't be brand new. No homeless people or low wage workers were going to get them. People were going to leave a job maybe making $1000-2000 less and going to them. So people making six figures were going to be making slightly higher six figure salaries.
    But those people may be moving from their well paying jobs elsewhere to live near the new location they work and they bring their consumption and their tax production, and the jobs they leave are going to get filled by other people too.

    Are you seriously suggesting that that piece of land was going to bring in no money to the municipality? Because if they bring in a dollar more than what's there now it would be a win, and it was extremely likely they would have brought in a hell of a lot of money compared to, from what I last saw is still low density storage space.

    I am fully supportive of locals not wanting a company to come in at all, or to not want to subsidize them coming, but calling it a win seems a clear miss. There are always issues and I'm sure the Amazon people would have caused some local issues as well as helped with some local issues, but it's a near certainty they would bring in more than the next best option they've got, and money means options for the municipality ... they can use that to help people in the area that need it.
    Last edited by Scoots; 12-08-2019 at 03:07 AM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Cancelled
    What do you mean?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    But those people may be moving from their well paying jobs elsewhere to live near the new location they work and they bring their consumption and their tax production, and the jobs they leave are going to get filled by other people too.

    Are you seriously suggesting that that piece of land was going to bring in no money to the municipality? Because if they bring in a dollar more than what's there now it would be a win, and it was extremely likely they would have brought in a hell of a lot of money compared to, from what I last saw is still low density storage space.

    I am fully supportive of locals not wanting a company to come in at all, or to not want to subsidize them coming, but calling it a win seems a clear miss. There are always issues and I'm sure the Amazon people would have caused some local issues as well as helped with some local issues, but it's a near certainty they would bring in more than the next best option they've got, and money means options for the municipality ... they can use that to help people in the area that need it.
    Are you saying a dollar more makes it worth it regardless of any other consequences?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    What do you mean?
    You reduced a woman to her looks. Very sexist.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Are you saying a dollar more makes it worth it regardless of any other consequences?
    No, but the argument against it was all about the money, so a dollar more would be opposite of a losing deal.

    The question really about the amazon proposed plan vs what actually goes in that space taking all of the money into account (corporate taxes, property taxes, income taxes, business to local shops, taxi revenue, real estate, future deals that are made possible by having Amazon there, etc). It requires some speculation, and it's entirely possible they never hit their target numbers of employees as DB said, but it's also possible they exceed them ... all of that compared to what they get to replace Amazon in that space. I'm fine with them choosing not to bend over for Amazon, but I think calling THIS a win is ... well ... a lie.

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