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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    There are other choices, just not viable ones under our system (which is dominated by wealth) and more evidence as to why it needs an overhaul.
    Agreed.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First Bolded: By what actual measure?

    Second Bolded: Are you so naïve? Companies that make these deals have remarkably low thresholds and in almost every instance meet these artificially low points. If you think there was a chance on earth Amazon wasn't going to receive the tax breaks if they moved their regardless of what they brought to the city, I don't think you know how must of these deals go down.

    But that goes back to something I believe you talked about earlier in the thread, in that this is similar to all the tax breaks sports teams enjoy in exchange for the promise of increasing the economic activity of the area. Most studies show these to be gigantic financial burdens on the cities and the economic activity generated almost always pales in comparison to how much tax incentives and money the cities must pay.

    Not to mention we just had the whole taxable income being stashed overseas argument at the beginning of Trump's presidency. Essentially, the only money NYC was likely going to receive was the income/sales taxes from the new employees, because in all actuality they were probably going to receive very little from Amazon itself (which Amazon knew all along).
    Do you think they would get the $1.3B in tax breaks without generating enough revenue to be billed $1.3B in the first place? The odds their taxable revenue over 10 years is below that is very small, but it it was just that it still doesn't have them being "paid" $3B to come.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    A lot of wealthy people vote democrat which will, if their plans are implemented, cost them money. They are voting their morals rather than for their household needs since their needs are already covered. At least that's my take on it.
    Wealthy people buying into the wall street democrats since it benefits them more. They were the crowd that the Clintons brought into the party. They hate the progressives and Bernie and are willing to support Mayor Pete, Biden and Kamala Harris more then Tulsi, Bernie, Warren, and Yang. The wealthy Whoopie Goldberg rants often and deeply about the progressives and side with Hillary and Obama in telling them to tone it down and respect the elders of the party.

    The battle lines within the party are drawn on this. Biden reassures his rich donors that nothing is going to change when he is elected, while Bernie is talking two steps from revolutions. I bet you those donors will flock to Warren, who said she will accept big money donations in a presidential race when Biden and the other moderates bow out. Her big diss is on government and business corruption then being a social warrior like Bernie.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-09-2019 at 03:33 PM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Do you think they would get the $1.3B in tax breaks without generating enough revenue to be billed $1.3B in the first place? The odds their taxable revenue over 10 years is below that is very small, but it it was just that it still doesn't have them being "paid" $3B to come.
    Well Amazon paid $250 million State taxes to Washington in 2017, and that was without a sweetheart deal. They paid $0 in Federal Income Tax in 2018. They stored Billions in overseas tax havens in Luxembourg. Simply put: paying taxes is not what they do. I imagine Amazon would declare the exact amount of minimum revenue to obtain all the tax breaks of their agreement and then move any other profits overseas to avoid actually paying taxes on it.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    There are other choices, just not viable ones under our system (which is dominated by wealth) and more evidence as to why it needs an overhaul.
    So the "system" that has provided the highest standard of living for a large population, that has created more wealth and opportunities for wealth than any other country in history, that people are fighting to get into…that system needs and "overhaul" because some losers can't make it here.

    Right.

    If only we had elected Hilly. She had that re-set button. That would have solved everything.

    Maybe, just maybe, those that can't seem to make it should "overhaul" their life choices just a tad. Maybe get educated, maybe not do drugs, maybe not have those unaffordable offspring, maybe not be so ready to have the state pay for all their needs, maybe stop trying so hard to be a sub-culture, maybe look in the mirror before they go out the door, maybe realize that macho and cool doesn't put food on the table.

    Seems like that woukd be easier than overhauling a successful system.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    So the "system" that has provided the highest standard of living for a large population, that has created more wealth and opportunities for wealth than any other country in history, that people are fighting to get into…that system needs and "overhaul" because some losers can't make it here.

    Right.

    If only we had elected Hilly. She had that re-set button. That would have solved everything.

    Maybe, just maybe, those that can't seem to make it should "overhaul" their life choices just a tad. Maybe get educated, maybe not do drugs, maybe not have those unaffordable offspring, maybe not be so ready to have the state pay for all their needs, maybe stop trying so hard to be a sub-culture, maybe look in the mirror before they go out the door, maybe realize that macho and cool doesn't put food on the table.

    Seems like that woukd be easier than overhauling a successful system.
    Macho and cool def puts food on the table for me. You're just saying that cuz you dont know how to pull it off.
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    So the "system" that has provided the highest standard of living for a large population, that has created more wealth and opportunities for wealth than any other country in history, that people are fighting to get into…that system needs and "overhaul" because some losers can't make it here.

    Right.

    If only we had elected Hilly. She had that re-set button. That would have solved everything.

    Maybe, just maybe, those that can't seem to make it should "overhaul" their life choices just a tad. Maybe get educated, maybe not do drugs, maybe not have those unaffordable offspring, maybe not be so ready to have the state pay for all their needs, maybe stop trying so hard to be a sub-culture, maybe look in the mirror before they go out the door, maybe realize that macho and cool doesn't put food on the table.

    Seems like that woukd be easier than overhauling a successful system.
    You quoted my post, so here goes:

    Nowhere do I mention a "Hilly."

    Nowhere do I say or suggest that the economic system needs overhaul (we are talking about the electoral system -- which is and always has been dominated by wealth).

    Nowhere do I mention poverty, drugs, losers, offspring or life choices.

    The electoral system needs an overhaul. You might disagree, but in spite of yourself, do try to come up with a cogent argument instead of a broken-record, cut-and-pasted, worthless rant.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    So the "system" that has provided the highest standard of living for a large population, that has created more wealth and opportunities for wealth than any other country in history, that people are fighting to get into…that system needs and "overhaul" because some losers can't make it here.

    Right.

    If only we had elected Hilly. She had that re-set button. That would have solved everything.

    Maybe, just maybe, those that can't seem to make it should "overhaul" their life choices just a tad. Maybe get educated, maybe not do drugs, maybe not have those unaffordable offspring, maybe not be so ready to have the state pay for all their needs, maybe stop trying so hard to be a sub-culture, maybe look in the mirror before they go out the door, maybe realize that macho and cool doesn't put food on the table.

    Seems like that woukd be easier than overhauling a successful system.
    I will except that rant and raise you my own rant

    Yeah, third world people want in, but Europeans, Japanese and other westernize first-world folks don't want anything to do with our system. Their countries are much more family-friendly then ours. I talk to someone from Denmark and she told me how their seventh-grade class when on a field trip to a foreign country, we don't spring for trips to the local zoo. She learned a required second language in grade school.

    But America is the great one, where we encourage our kids to be the dumbest (by cutting education) in the first world.

    Highest infant death, highest prison population, more mass violence, yeah buddy you have a lot to be proud of.
    I am sorry am I being ungrateful for our greatness?
    Last edited by WES445; 12-10-2019 at 04:07 PM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I will except that rant and raise you my own rant

    Yeah, third world people want in, but Europeans, Japanese and other westernize first-world folks don't want anything to do with our system. Their countries are much more family-friendly then ours. I talk to someone from Denmark and she told me how their seventh-grade class when on a field trip to a foreign country, we don't spring for trips to the local zoo. She learned a required second language in grade school.

    But America is the great one, where we encourage our kids to be the dumbest (by cutting education) in the first world.

    Highest infant death, highest prison population, more mass violence, yeah buddy you have a lot to be proud of.
    I am sorry am I being ungrateful for our greatness?
    Ridiculous post.

    Europeans, Japanese and other westernize first-world folks don't want anything to do with our system??? but they all want our business. They all want our defensive umbrella. When something goes wrong, they all look to the US.

    You make it seem as if all the problems in America are legislated by law. They're not. They are due to personal choices. High prison population…don't commit a crime. High infant death…how much of that is mama's fault. Seems like there are plenty of agencies out there to help.

    Liberals kill me…every problem in their lives is someone else's fault…never theirs but it can easily be solved with more funding. Right.


    Denmark requires a 2nd language in grade school???
    1. They have to be in that school to learn the 2nd language.
    2. many of our kids can't speak the first language properly.

    Other countries are family friendly??
    All you need to have a family is to stay with that which you produce. The US does not legislate broken families. Broken families are a matter of people not living up to their responsibility.

    Know what Denmark doesn't have??? People. The US has cities with more people than Denmark. And most of the states have more people than Denmark.

    Know what else Denmark doesn't have? Diversity. Over 80 percent of them are Danes. When Denmark makes a law, policy adjustment, social decision…pretty much everyone is on board because they are all the same.

    But we have them clobbered in diversity. That just works out so well for us.

    I really wish people would stop comparing us to these Scandanavian countries. Apples and Oranges. They are homogeneous places with small populations. We are not.

    Our problems will never be solved by waiting for government handouts. Education won't get any better by throwing more money at it. An education is there for the taking…you have to want it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.

    And that second language all these little Danes are learning…I wonder if it could be English.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Ridiculous post.

    Europeans, Japanese and other westernize first-world folks don't want anything to do with our system??? but they all want our business. They all want our defensive umbrella. When something goes wrong, they all look to the US.
    The reply was to your rant about everyone wants to move here not about wanting our business. And no they don't want our kind of system that willingly weaken its education system, or give the businesses a free rein to destroy their environment because they don't like regulation for two examples.

    You make it seem as if all the problems in America are legislated by law. They're not. They are due to personal choices. High prison population…don't commit a crime. High infant death…how much of that is mama's fault? Seems like there are plenty of agencies out there to help.
    Blaming the victim is an old ploy. Our high prison population is due to a drug war that judges drug addiction as a crime instead of illness the way the European treat it. They don't have the drug-related violence or high drug use that we do because of it. So you let babies die because of some perceived fault of the mother, a real humanitarian aren't you. It has been proved that planned parenthood clinic decreases pregnancies and infant death, but the republican closed them anyway within the states they run.

    Liberals kill me…every problem in their lives is someone else's fault…never theirs but it can easily be solved with more funding. Right.
    Rant for Rant. Conservatives kill me, they cut everything that the poor and middle class need to give it the wealthy. Giving the rich more tax breaks which they don't use to create jobs, and then turn around and raise the age one can get full retirement benefits. Yeah, those rants really help our discourse


    Denmark requires a 2nd language in grade school???
    1. They have to be in that school to learn the 2nd language.
    2. many of our kids can't speak the first language properly.
    I don't even know how that relates to them having a higher rated education system than ours. We rate in the middle teens in the world education rating.

    Other countries are family friendly??
    All you need to have a family is to stay with that which you produce. The US does not legislate broken families. Broken families are a matter of people not living up to their responsibility.
    Family friendly as in longer maternal leave with pay. More vacation time. No one in the first world work harder than American and get less for it

    Know what Denmark doesn't have??? People. The US has cities with more people than Denmark. And most of the states have more people than Denmark.
    Know what the Denmark government does do???? They don't commit their taxes payers money to endless war. Every since I was born we haven't had a decade without being at war with someone. A report can out we are running out of ammo because we go through it so fast. And know what Denmark does have???? Percentage-wise, they have fewer billionaires then us.

    Know what else Denmark doesn't have? Diversity. Over 80 percent of them are Danes. When Denmark makes a law, policy adjustment, social decision…pretty much everyone is on board because they are all the same.
    this is the main problem I have with you. You see our diversity as a weakness. As long as non-whites shut their damn mouth and adopt wholly the white culture and follow the great white fathers lead this country can be great again. This thinking, that diversity is a problem, causes problems because you don't take non-whites problems seriously and just write it off as "they don't have American/white values." Totally ignore that whites do drugs just as much as non-whites, but it is the non-whites go to jail the most. I know you will try to justify this.

    But we have them clobbered in diversity. That just works out so well for us.
    Those non-wasp are really dragging us down. Feel free to sing "The white man burden song" Guess this country would have done a lot better enslaving their own then importing Africans.

    I really wish people would stop comparing us to these Scandanavian countries. Apples and Oranges. They are homogeneous places with small populations. We are not.
    Right, it has nothing to do with where their government wish to spend their money. Besides the larger the country the more taxes are paid.

    Our problems will never be solved by waiting for government handouts. Education won't get any better by throwing more money at it. An education is there for the taking…you have to want it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.
    Right, we have cut education funding since Reagan, now that people want the same education that my generation had as in grade school bands, recess, extra help for those with verbal problems, the mentally handicapped and PE, it consider a hand-out. You are a real piece of work.

    And that second language all these little Danes are learning…I wonder if it could be English.
    As if that last thing posted has any merit. The idea is to be able to converse in different languages as a skill to succeed. If I had an international company, I would hire people who have the most language skills. One can get a job in intelligence by being multi-verse in languages. Being a top dog in the world doesn't entitle you to be stupider than the average first-world citizens.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-10-2019 at 07:10 PM.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    The reply was to your rant about everyone wants to move here not about wanting our business. And no they don't want our kind of system that willingly weaken its education system, or give the businesses a free rein to destroy their environment because they don't like regulation for two examples. Blaming the victim is an old ploy. Our high prison population is due to a drug war that judges drug addiction as a crime instead of illness the way the European treat it. They don't have the drug-related violence or high drug use that we do because of it. So you let babies die because of some perceived fault of the mother, a real humanitarian aren't you. It has been proved that planned parenthood clinic decreases pregnancies and infant death, but the republican closed them anyway within the states they run.Rant for Rant. Conservatives kill me, they cut everything that the poor and middle class need to give it the wealthy. Giving the rich more tax breaks which they don't use to create jobs, and then turn around and raise the age one can get full retirement benefits. Yeah, those rants really help our discourse I don't even know how that relates to them having a higher rated education system than ours. We rate in the middle teens in the world education rating. Family friendly as in longer maternal leave with pay. More vacation time. No one in the first world work harder than American and get less for it Know what the Denmark government does do???? They don't commit their taxes payers money to endless war. Every since I was born we haven't had a decade without being at war with someone. A report can out we are running out of ammo because we go through it so fast. And know what Denmark does have???? Percentage-wise, they have fewer billionaires then us. this is the main problem I have with you. You see our diversity as a weakness. As long as non-whites shut their damn mouth and adopt wholly the white culture and follow the great white fathers lead this country can be great again. This thinking, that diversity is a problem, causes problems because you don't take non-whites problems seriously and just write it off as "they don't have American/white values." Totally ignore that whites do drugs just as much as non-whites, but it is the non-whites go to jail the most. I know you will try to justify this. Those non-wasp are really dragging us down. Feel free to sing "The white man burden song" Guess this country would have done a lot better enslaving their own then importing Africans. Right, it has nothing to do with where their government wish to spend their money. Besides the larger the country the more taxes are paid. Right, we have cut education funding since Reagan, now that people want the same education that my generation had as in grade school bands, recess, extra help for those with verbal problems, the mentally handicapped and PE, it consider a hand-out. You are a real piece of work.

    As if that last thing posted has any merit. The idea is to be able to converse in different languages as a skill to succeed. If I had an international company, I would hire people who have the most language skills. One can get a job in intelligence by being multi-verse in languages. Being a top dog in the world doesn't entitle you to be stupider than the average first-world citizens.
    It's just horrible here.

    So when are you moving?????

    I hear that airports have flights leaving the country every day. Drop us a postcard.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    It's just horrible here.

    So when are you moving?????

    I hear that airports have flights leaving the country every day. Drop us a postcard.
    That is the best you can do? Love it or leave it? Hey, thanks for the memories of the sixties when conservatives like you diss the anti-war movement and Martin Luther King with the same bs response. I would be surprised if the anti-slavery people of the 1800s didn't hear the same thing.

    Besides, why should I leave when the tide is changing towards King's " I have a dream" speech. You know the guy you said you admire. I think that is the reason for the republican being so angry . A diverse group of people are gaining a voice in social and political arenas. You republicans are losing a whole generation with your backward, anti-diversity and anti-environmental spew.

    I guess it will be you buying a ticket if Bernie wins because he is all about diversity and everyone having a place at the table.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-10-2019 at 08:25 PM.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    That is the best you can do? Love it or leave it? Hey, thanks for the memories of the sixties when conservatives like you diss the anti-war movement and Martin Luther King with the same bs response. I would be surprised if the anti-slavery people of the 1800s didn't hear the same thing.

    Besides, why should I leave when the tide is changing towards King's " I have a dream" speech. You know the guy you said you admire. I think that is the reason for the republican being so angry . A diverse group of people are gaining a voice in social and political arenas. You republicans are losing a whole generation with your backward, anti-diversity and anti-environmental spew.

    I guess it will be you buying a ticket if Bernie wins because he is all about diversity and everyone having a place at the table.
    Think it through a little.

    What do you think happened to all those liberals of the sixties (of which I was one)???

    They all grew up and figured it out. Important causes when you are young becomes silly BS as you age. And thank God for that. Other than great rock music, there is little about the 60s that I miss. And a lot of the women were, shall we say, less than pretty.

    A conservative is basically a liberal with a job. The get their paycheck, see the deductions and start to wonder. They work their butts off and see others coasting on their dime and start to wonder even more.

    Why do you think the liberal dems want open borders with all these uneducated, unqualified people coming in…it is because they eventually lose the liberal vote as their constituents age into actual adulthood.

    For the record…I was a card carrying member of the ACLU and voted for Jimmy Carter (he was a president at one time. You can look him up.) Thankfully, people age out of the silliness. Although I will agree it seems to be taking longer.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Think it through a little.

    What do you think happened to all those liberals of the sixties (of which I was one)???

    They all grew up and figured it out. Important causes when you are young becomes silly BS as you age. And thank God for that. Other than great rock music, there is little about the 60s that I miss. And a lot of the women were, shall we say, less than pretty.

    A conservative is basically a liberal with a job. The get their paycheck, see the deductions and start to wonder. They work their butts off and see others coasting on their dime and start to wonder even more.

    Why do you think the liberal dems want open borders with all these uneducated, unqualified people coming in…it is because they eventually lose the liberal vote as their constituents age into actual adulthood.

    For the record…I was a card carrying member of the ACLU and voted for Jimmy Carter (he was a president at one time. You can look him up.) Thankfully, people age out of the silliness. Although I will agree it seems to be taking longer.
    Post a picture of your ACLU card and I’ll believe you


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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Think it through a little.

    What do you think happened to all those liberals of the sixties (of which I was one)???

    They all grew up and figured it out. Important causes when you are young becomes silly BS as you age. And thank God for that. Other than great rock music, there is little about the 60s that I miss. And a lot of the women were, shall we say, less than pretty.

    A conservative is basically a liberal with a job. The get their paycheck, see the deductions and start to wonder. They work their butts off and see others coasting on their dime and start to wonder even more.

    Why do you think the liberal dems want open borders with all these uneducated, unqualified people coming in…it is because they eventually lose the liberal vote as their constituents age into actual adulthood.

    For the record…I was a card carrying member of the ACLU and voted for Jimmy Carter (he was a president at one time. You can look him up.) Thankfully, people age out of the silliness. Although I will agree it seems to be taking longer.
    Like the whole 60's Civil Rights movement am I right?

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