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  1. #1
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    Cool Amazon moves to NYC despite *not* receiving $3 billion in tax-funded subsidies

    https://www.rawstory.com/2019/12/oca...-in-subsidies/

    From the start it was a scheme by Amazon to extract the most subsidies from the public.

    Good on the folks who saw through it. 👍

  2. #2
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    They're creating only 1,500 jobs instead of 25,000, they're doing it in another district, and those "subsides" were tax breaks that Amazon would only receive AFTRER paying taxes the city was never going to hand a dime over to the company, they were just going to give them SOME of their money back after paying taxes.

    Oh and they would have been able to tax the income of the 25k high paying jobs they would have gotten.

  3. #3
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    Amazon moves to NYC despite *not* receiving $3 billion in tax-funded subsidies

    Idk much about this and everything I’ve seen seems basis from one side or the other and I looked a little. I will say this though it seems like things are rigged against these mega companies from the start and we should give them some of their money back.


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  4. #4
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    So amid lots of stories about how horrible it is to work in Amazon warehouses it's a victory to subject NYC people to that?

    This isn't a big Amazon complex, it's just another fulfillment center so they can get their delivery time in NY down to same day and put more NYC Mom's and Pop's out of business.

    I don't see how this is any kind of "win" for NYC or AOC.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    So amid lots of stories about how horrible it is to work in Amazon warehouses it's a victory to subject NYC people to that?

    This isn't a big Amazon complex, it's just another fulfillment center so they can get their delivery time in NY down to same day and put more NYC Mom's and Pop's out of business.

    I don't see how this is any kind of "win" for NYC or AOC.
    I looked pretty good when Amazon decided not to go to NY and I couldn’t find one seemly balanced story about the positives and negatives of them accepting an plan from NY or not. I will say it’s weird that amazon can start a public bidding war bt states.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I looked pretty good when Amazon decided not to go to NY and I couldn’t find one seemly balanced story about the positives and negatives of them accepting an plan from NY or not. I will say it’s weird that amazon can start a public bidding war bt states.


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    Football owners do it as well. Case in point, Chicago Cardinal became the St. Louis Cardinals then the Arizona Cardinals. Even the Chicago Bears try that stunt for a new stadium. Big business has been doing this for a while. Playing different cities for the honor of having their companies and jobs in their area. In Chicago, the Sears people got major tax benefits to set up in Chicago and major jobs were the promise that was never delivered. They still got the tax breaks.

    It's a moral victory in stopping Big business from holding cities hostages for the promise of jobs that aren't guaranteed.

    Maybe, the republicans can stop harping on AOC for chasing away jobs, or their encouraging Big Businesses to play the cities to pay less, much needed, taxes.

  7. #7
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    A few points are being missed here.

    The area where Amazon is taking office space and creating 1,500 jobs is an area that has been planned and under construction for some time. It has taken an underdeveloped and not that attractive area of Manhattan and turned it into primo Manhattan real estate that will be rented (and taxed) at top dollar. It is such a good location that, if Amazon did not take it, someone else would. No question about that.

    Amazon is putting office space and office workers in there. This will do little (if anything) for thew lower paid, less skilled workers that actually need promising jobs.

    The area in Queens that AOC helped kill is a somewhat depressed, fairly dreary area that Amazon would hagve turned into a huge into a huge economic zone that would benefit mostly lower skilled workers. It also would have driven ancillary businesses, housing etc.

    Arithmetic……25,000 jobs minus 1,500 jobs leaves 23,500 jobs lost.

    Often times one major plan can stimulate incredible growth to its surrounding area. That has already happened in the area that Amazon has announced its 1,300 jobs. That growth has been denied (by AOC and her likes) to an area of Queens that sorely needed it.

    Bonus point……Donald Trump (yeah that guy) did this with a huge portion of mid-town Manhattan. One of his first projects was converting the old, dismal Commodore Hotel attached to Grand Central Terminal to the NY Hyatt. In the years that followed, the entire area (referred to as Terminal City) boomed and took off. Trump (yeah, that guy) provided the spark. NYC even renovated Grand Central where it became little more than a dreary commuter pass thru to a tourist attraction and a place for locals to go.

    AOC can smirk all she wants, but she was totally wrong.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Football owners do it as well. Case in point, Chicago Cardinal became the St. Louis Cardinals then the Arizona Cardinals. Even the Chicago Bears try that stunt for a new stadium. Big business has been doing this for a while. Playing different cities for the honor of having their companies and jobs in their area. In Chicago, the Sears people got major tax benefits to set up in Chicago and major jobs were the promise that was never delivered. They still got the tax breaks.

    It's a moral victory in stopping Big business from holding cities hostages for the promise of jobs that aren't guaranteed.

    Maybe, the republicans can stop harping on AOC for chasing away jobs, or their encouraging Big Businesses to play the cities to pay less, much needed, taxes.
    What you are saying is probably true. Sports teams hold up cities all the time and in actuality provide very few jobs and even less quality jobs. The real frustrating thing about these teams is that very few locals can actually afford to go to the games in the stadiums that their tax dollars support.

    It is more a prestige thing than anything else. Try being the mayor of a city that loses a team. No one wants that.

    Although it will never happen, I'd be in favor of some law (and it would have to be on a national level) that prohibits tax breaks for anything. It would put everything on an even playing field. (no pun intended.)

    But there are always arguments to be made in favor of tax breaks. e.g. suppose some major manufacturer was willing to bull doze deserted blocks of Detroit and build a manufacturing facility that would create thousands of jobs…worth it? I dunno.

    It's a tough question.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    What you are saying is probably true. Sports teams hold up cities all the time and in actuality provide very few jobs and even less quality jobs. The real frustrating thing about these teams is that very few locals can actually afford to go to the games in the stadiums that their tax dollars support.

    It is more a prestige thing than anything else. Try being the mayor of a city that loses a team. No one wants that.

    Although it will never happen, I'd be in favor of some law (and it would have to be on a national level) that prohibits tax breaks for anything. It would put everything on an even playing field. (no pun intended.)

    But there are always arguments to be made in favor of tax breaks. e.g. suppose some major manufacturer was willing to bull doze deserted blocks of Detroit and build a manufacturing facility that would create thousands of jobs…worth it? I dunno.

    It's a tough question.
    Weren't you dissing AOC for denying NYC much-needed jobs when she squashes the first amazon sweetheart deal? Yes, you were. You were on the wrong side of this argument then. Weren't you? Republican talking-heads were raking her over the coals and the republican posters here were as well.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-07-2019 at 11:09 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Weren't you dissing AOC for denying NYC much-needed jobs when she squashes the first amazon sweetheart deal? Yes you were. You were on the wrong side of this argument then. Weren't you?
    You don't read for comprehension all that well. Go back and read what I posted. Ask for help if you need it.

    To answer your question…yes. I dissed this idiot denying NYC much-needed jobs when she squashes the first amazon sweetheart deal. If that is improtant to you, then YES, I fully admit.

    And once again: 25,000 minus 1,500 = 23,500 lost jobs. (Use a pencil and paper if you have to.)

    Now………

    You seem to be saying that AOC is vindicated for losing 25,000 jobs (and tons of construction jobs, and hundreds of new businesses popping up around the project she blew off and probably new housing in the area) by the fact that Amazon is bringing in 1,500 jobs to a project that was already a done deal that creates no new jobs (they were created before Amazon expressed an interest in that area) and probably would have been rented anyway to someone else.

    Is that what you are saying?????

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I looked pretty good when Amazon decided not to go to NY and I couldn’t find one seemly balanced story about the positives and negatives of them accepting an plan from NY or not. I will say it’s weird that amazon can start a public bidding war bt states.
    It's the same as sports teams. The municipalities are competing for future business associated with it and tax collections. That's a fairly reasonable practice. Personally I'd vote for my municipality to not get involved, but I don't blame them for wanting to bring in business or for the companies to want some.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's the same as sports teams. The municipalities are competing for future business associated with it and tax collections. That's a fairly reasonable practice. Personally I'd vote for my municipality to not get involved, but I don't blame them for wanting to bring in business or for the companies to want some.
    There are a lot of people, and I admit to being one of them, that see tax breaks as a bribe.

    It would be nice for a community to be able to sell itself on what it is and what it has to offer as opposed to bribing tome corporate officers.

    Tampa is a great place to live. Great climate, good schools, no state income tax, reasonable housing, plenty of room in the outlying areas. Those reasons alone would seem to sell the area but business are always looking for whatever they can get. The primary knock on Tampa is lack of public transportation. We are rated near the bottom as far as metro areas with lousy transit. I would rather see tax money going to that than tax breaks.

    Other side of the coin…Port Saint Lucie Florida. No one ever heard of it. Then they threw millions of dollars at the Mets (and their executives) to move their spring training facilities there. It put the town, and eventually the area, on the map and the whole area is booming. Real estate skyrocketed, people vacation there, jobs etc. Was it worth it?

    There are no easy answers

  13. #13
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    Amazon moves to NYC despite *not* receiving $3 billion in tax-funded subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's the same as sports teams. The municipalities are competing for future business associated with it and tax collections. That's a fairly reasonable practice. Personally I'd vote for my municipality to not get involved, but I don't blame them for wanting to bring in business or for the companies to want some.
    Is it reasonable for businesses of a certain size to be subject to the law and while businesses of a larger size get to negotiate what the law will be before committing to do business? That’s what this sounds like.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    There are a lot of people, and I admit to being one of them, that see tax breaks as a bribe.

    It would be nice for a community to be able to sell itself on what it is and what it has to offer as opposed to bribing tome corporate officers.

    Tampa is a great place to live. Great climate, good schools, no state income tax, reasonable housing, plenty of room in the outlying areas. Those reasons alone would seem to sell the area but business are always looking for whatever they can get. The primary knock on Tampa is lack of public transportation. We are rated near the bottom as far as metro areas with lousy transit. I would rather see tax money going to that than tax breaks.

    Other side of the coin…Port Saint Lucie Florida. No one ever heard of it. Then they threw millions of dollars at the Mets (and their executives) to move their spring training facilities there. It put the town, and eventually the area, on the map and the whole area is booming. Real estate skyrocketed, people vacation there, jobs etc. Was it worth it?

    There are no easy answers
    If there is no easy answer why is AOC and idiot for not wanting to pay to play?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    If there is no easy answer why is AOC and idiot for not wanting to pay to play?


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    Because 25,000 jobs left NYC for another community that will do what AOC talked NYC out of doing.

    But, hey, no one, least pf all Amazon, is going to push her around. Not on her watch.

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