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Thread: Homelessness

  1. #1
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    Homelessness

    I've been thinking a lot about the homelessness issue, and I've got no real idea for an answer.

    Saw this video today which illustrates how broken CA is in that they agreed to spend $1B+ to give LA homeless homes and that is getting delayed by CA regulations. CA is getting in the way of what CA wants to do. You'd think they could work together.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gazX_feRSW0

    Do you have any ideas?

  2. #2
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    I'm not really sure what you can do about it. But it is always used to attack California but the people who attack California never attack the next 5-6 states for homelessness. Probably because those are deep red states.
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  3. #3
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    If we could get around the regulatory limitations we could build container based rack housing WAY cheaper and just give the spaces away, but the living would be minimalist but can be nice.

    This was 4 years ago but regulations have slowed development of this as a solution.
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...future-housing

    Homelessness is caused by many things, a lot of people don't realize that you can do nothing wrong and end up homeless, but once you are there it can be incredibly hard to get out. To work you need to be able to get clean, to be able to be communicated with, and need a place to keep your stuff while you work.

    The solution should be integrated with substance abuse issue abatement, education, job training, job placement services, and ideally some subsidized grocery store with some food prep services. It shouldn't be fancy or "uplifting", it should be minimalist, simple, effective, and free for a year and inexpensive after that.

    If we could do that I really think the major part of the issue will be solved ... the people who can't be helped by that probably need to live in assisted living facilities and that comes with universal health care.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I'm not really sure what you can do about it. But it is always used to attack California but the people who attack California never attack the next 5-6 states for homelessness. Probably because those are deep red states.
    This particular one mentions CA because it's a much bigger issue in CA than anywhere else. I want to solve it where I live too and I'm not in CA. I grew up in CA and had to deal with the incredibly difficult system they have built to do anything. I've lived in 4 states and CA is by FAR the worst to work with to get anything done.

    I worked trying to help drug addicts lives back working for years in CA and what I learned is that CA people want to help, CA systems are demeaning, demoralizing, and for the most part just function to make people quit trying to use them. The link I put in the OP is particularly sad because CA government is killing an effort by CA government to help people. They have no excuse for that.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I'm not really sure what you can do about it. But it is always used to attack California but the people who attack California never attack the next 5-6 states for homelessness. Probably because those are deep red states.
    Are you even capable of having a bipartisan thought? Every single thing that comes out of that noggin of yours is purely driven by partisan means.

    But anyway: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...e-us-by-state/

    It surprised me to learn that DC, New York, Hawaii, Oregon, California, Washington and Massachusetts (the top 7) are red states.
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  6. #6
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    people that are homeless probably don't have much money, right, unlikely to even have a job. meaning it should be stupid to fine them $1,000 for sleeping on the streets.

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...t-sleeping-law


    Despite protests about a “war on the poor,” Las Vegas officials passed a law Wednesday making it illegal for the homeless to sleep on streets when beds are available at established shelters.

    The issue spurred emotion and drama, including the ejection by city marshals of several audience members whom Mayor Carolyn Goodman deemed disruptive during a daylong City Council meeting that drew dozens of time-limited comments.

    Most people spoke against the law before the 5-2 council vote. The measure will apply to the city’s downtown urban core, not the tourist-heavy Las Vegas Strip, which is overseen by a different jurisdiction.

    Goodman, the sponsor of the measure, called it imperfect but necessary to deal with what officials and downtown business owners characterize as a homeless crisis.

    “This is flawed, but it is a start,” the mayor said after noting Las Vegas’ economy relies on its image as an attractive international tourist attraction.

    “We have been having these conversations for 20 years,” she said, “and we must have results.”

    Las Vegas becomes the latest city in the U.S. West — from San Francisco and Seattle to Honolulu and Salt Lake City — to try to deal with complaints about homelessness.

    The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals struck down a similar law from Boise, Idaho, last year — calling it unconstitutional to prosecute people for sleeping in public places when there aren’t enough shelter beds.

    City Atty. Brad Jerbic said the Las Vegas law was crafted to withstand a similar legal challenge, with its “if beds are available” provision.

    Opponents rejected city officials’ assurances that there will be enough shelter space when necessary.

    The law provides for warnings by public officers, beginning Sunday, for people found “camping, lodging, sitting, lying down, sleeping and similar activities” in most downtown areas.

    Those activities become a misdemeanor beginning Jan. 1, punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.


    “It’s criminalizing the homeless,” the Rev. Leonard Jackson, associate pastor of First African Methodist Episcopal Church in North Las Vegas and director of the regional Faith Organizing Alliance, said during a morning protest outside City Hall.

    About 100 people rallied, chanting, “The war on the poor has got to go,” before taking their protest into the contentious public meeting that lasted more than nine hours.

    Business interests supported the measure to deal with complaints about people sleeping in office doorways and leaving trash and human waste on streets and alleys.

    “If we can build stadiums, then we can build housing for the homeless,” George Allen, a self-described “working homeless” home-care worker, told the council.

    Allen was referring to a $2-billion, 65,000-seat football stadium set to open next year for the relocated Oakland Raiders. Taxpayers are contributing $750 million to the project through hotel room taxes.

    City officials report spending more than $35 million on homeless-related services last year, including outreach, fire, police and community services.

    The camping ban proposal has drawn opposition from Democratic presidential candidates Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Tom Steyer and Julian Castro. Castro, a former U.S. Housing and Urban Development secretary, attended an Oct. 2 protest against the proposed ordinance.

    Michael McDonald, head of the Nevada Republican Party, accused the Democrats of “pandering to Las Vegans” and “advocating for the homeless to continue suffering on our streets.” He said the proposal requires warnings and offering transportation to a shelter with an available bed before a person would get cited.

    An annual survey taken one night in January counted more than 5,500 people on the streets in Las Vegas and surrounding cities and county property. Officials estimate that more than 14,000 people are homeless in and around Las Vegas at some point during the year.

    The Review-Journal has tallied about 2,000 beds plus an open-air, 24/7 courtyard offered by the city where officials say more than 300 people stay on any given night. It has 220 sleeping mats.
    isn't there a better alternative to fining the homeless. sure you want them to go to shelters instead of the streets, but fining them isn't helping them.
    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
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  7. #7
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    Maybe pay a little $ for a night in the shelter to encourage people to use it?

    My city is buying old motels and giving the rooms away for free, but it always becomes an issue of sustaining it and somehow trying to keep people from taking advantage of it. The cost to the city is around $80k per year per "apartment" and so far they are just getting started and the first motel is less than 100 rooms. One of the issues is that they are attaching mandatory things the residents must do while staying there in an effort to get them to leave to some other housing they can pay for ... the problem with that, of course, being that any other housing in most major cities is going to be obscenely expensive.

    Why is housing stupidly expensive in cities? Because they have made it hard and expensive to build apartments and expensive to own them too for a long enough time that they are scarce and anybody building them now wants to sell them as premium. Even when people are willing to build "low income" housing in cities by the time they are done the price is no longer "low income".

    San Francisco has somewhere between 8000 and 12000 homeless year round. The city added less than 2300 new residences over the last year. This in a city that averages about a 10% population growth a year which is in turn driving rents higher every year at a similar rate.

    The only long term solution is to get people to leave cities, which, I guess, the homeless problem is helping with.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Maybe pay a little $ for a night in the shelter to encourage people to use it?
    Wait! What? We're going to pay people to not be homeless?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Wait! What? We're going to pay people to not be homeless?
    We already are. Homeless people in front of your business costs you business. Homeless people in your neighborhood your property value goes down. Arrest them and you are paying to transport them, guard them, feed them, and clothe them. You are already paying for shelters.

    The question is how best to get them back into society. Paying them a dollar to use the shelter is a hell of a lot cheaper than putting them in a cell for an hour.

    Do you have any ideas what we can do to solve the problem?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    people that are homeless probably don't have much money, right, unlikely to even have a job. meaning it should be stupid to fine them $1,000 for sleeping on the streets.

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...t-sleeping-law



    isn't there a better alternative to fining the homeless. sure you want them to go to shelters instead of the streets, but fining them isn't helping them.
    You didn’t need to post a stupidly long article but otherwise a prefect post


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    You didn’t need to post a stupidly long article but otherwise a prefect post


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    the article is information that backs up what I said. this is literally what has been happening.
    if anyone doesn't like a lengthy article and doesn't want to bother reading, it's not hard to scroll past, that takes what 1-2 seconds.
    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Either care about all of it like a decent human being or shut the **** up and stop selective outrage based on whether it serves your political purposes.

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    the article is information that backs up what I said. this is literally what has been happening.
    if anyone doesn't like a lengthy article and doesn't want to bother reading, it's not hard to scroll past, that takes what 1-2 seconds.
    You could have posted a couple sentences and the link rather than all that text. In fact you should never post all the text for copyright reasons.

  13. #13
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    No ideas I guess.

    Basically, until we get housing growth in cities to significantly out grow the population we are going to have a homeless problem in cities.

  14. #14
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    In Utah they built apartment buildings, provided food assistance and jobs. Cleaned up most of the homelessness rather quickly.

    So the simple answer is you have to House the homeless. But you have to do it right.

    This bigger issue is mental illness. Especially in LA. People with serious issues and have no ability to hold a job or function well in a housing project. We do nothing for them. So they wander.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    In Utah they built apartment buildings, provided food assistance and jobs. Cleaned up most of the homelessness rather quickly.

    So the simple answer is you have to House the homeless. But you have to do it right.

    This bigger issue is mental illness. Especially in LA. People with serious issues and have no ability to hold a job or function well in a housing project. We do nothing for them. So they wander.
    I think in LA part of the problem is that the housing projects are nightmares and life in LA is so expensive it puts a lot of people on the edge of being homeless.

    Mental/drug issues are a significant cause, but it's hard to tell how much of those issues are the result of financial issues and how much are the cause. Also hard to tell how many homeless have mental/drug issues at all since getting that information reliably is expensive too.

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