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  1. #181
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    Huge mistake of not taking Caufield. Means they didnít know what they had in Zamula ... Zamula likely makes the flyers next year ... York spends the year in college again, then another year in the AHL ...

    Classic case of think ď2 is better than 1Ē ... itís like when the eagles traded down and grabbed another pick that is Sydney Jones ... hate that strategy. Love trading back up, hate trading down and nabbing two picks for the price of your higher one. Itís watering down the talent.

    Brink seems OK ... hope he isnít another NAK, which he very well could be. Not picking Caufield is stupid.
    you're mixing your metaphors here. even after the flyers traded down, they were still in position to draft caulfield if they wanted to. they didn't.

    that may turn out to be a mistake, but it's way too soon to pass final judgment on it.
    Iím a bit underwhelmed at Frostís lack of flash. Itís like we are taking all the creativity out of players through our coaching and development system. We need to stop doing that.
    konecny didn't break out until his 4th NHL season; frost still hasn't played his 20 NHL game. his development isn't being held back; he's still going to be really good. it would have been great if he came in and lit the league on fire (like ghost did), but it's unreasonable to expect that from him when he was only called up because everyone else was/is struggling.
    We need to build around the creativity, like Baltimore did with Lamar Jackson.
    could you expand on this?

    if you go through our draft classes since hextall got here, all of the forwards are hard-nosed, gritty, high-motor types. some of them (farabee, konecny, lindblom, patrick) have more talent than others, but with few exceptions (brink is completely different; i'd argue that frost is more sniper-ish; ratcliffe's more of a traditional power forward), they're not gamebreakers, they're chris vandevelde clones. they're interchangeable cogs who can be plugged into a system that takes advantage of their positive traits.


    i disagree with a lot of what hextall did as GM, but i actually agree with this aspect of his philosophy. when you wear opponents down by playing a fast, physical, relentless style of hockey, they will make mistakes and you can win by taking advantage of those mistakes. it takes more than that to win in the NHL, but we have more than that. we have giroux, couturier, frost, konecny, provorov, myers, sanheim, ghost, hart. with a few tweaks (voracek, raffl, jvr, braun), this can still be a viable strategy for us going forward.



    (of course, outside of that playoff run with white/cousins/laughton/bellemare/vandevelde, hextall never acquired the personnel to play this way. as we all know, he preferred to lard up our bottom 6 with the slowest, shittiest, most overpaid gumps he could find)

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    you're mixing your metaphors here. even after the flyers traded down, they were still in position to draft caulfield if they wanted to. they didn't.

    that may turn out to be a mistake, but it's way too soon to pass final judgment on it.
    konecny didn't break out until his 4th NHL season; frost still hasn't played his 20 NHL game. his development isn't being held back; he's still going to be really good. it would have been great if he came in and lit the league on fire (like ghost did), but it's unreasonable to expect that from him when he was only called up because everyone else was/is struggling.
    could you expand on this?

    if you go through our draft classes since hextall got here, all of the forwards are hard-nosed, gritty, high-motor types. some of them (farabee, konecny, lindblom, patrick) have more talent than others, but with few exceptions (brink is completely different; i'd argue that frost is more sniper-ish; ratcliffe's more of a traditional power forward), they're not gamebreakers, they're chris vandevelde clones. they're interchangeable cogs who can be plugged into a system that takes advantage of their positive traits.


    i disagree with a lot of what hextall did as GM, but i actually agree with this aspect of his philosophy. when you wear opponents down by playing a fast, physical, relentless style of hockey, they will make mistakes and you can win by taking advantage of those mistakes. it takes more than that to win in the NHL, but we have more than that. we have giroux, couturier, frost, konecny, provorov, myers, sanheim, ghost, hart. with a few tweaks (voracek, raffl, jvr, braun), this can still be a viable strategy for us going forward.



    (of course, outside of that playoff run with white/cousins/laughton/bellemare/vandevelde, hextall never acquired the personnel to play this way. as we all know, he preferred to lard up our bottom 6 with the slowest, shittiest, most overpaid gumps he could find)
    Part of that is that the Flyers were rarely in a position to draft game breakers. We can all disagree as to the reasons for that (and I HATED the Patrick pick) -- but really, when you're drafting in the teens, it's difficult to find electric talents. It can be done, but it isn't nearly as common.

    Frost looks really good, but he's not putting up numbers. But look at the stubtle plays he's making -- finding soft spots, creating from the half boards & behind the net, delivering the puck to the dirty areas. Those are all the right things, but the outcomes haven't been great.

    Zamula looks like a bona fide stud. Myers looks like a Parayko clone. Provorov is legitimately excellent. Ghost looks like he's getting his groove back. Sanheim is up & down, but I like that he's been more consistent defensively.

    I still wanted Caufield. I get Fletcher's reasoning that we were short in the defensive pipeline, but this is why you don't draft for need. Just take the stud & figure out the rest later.

  3. #183
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    Well, that was quite the game. Hell of a job by Elliott to battle all night, and lots of good stuff from Giroux, Jake, Couturier, Hayes & Provy.

    Also -- damn John Gibson is good. It's easy to forget just how good he is because we rarely see him.

  4. #184
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    Zamula looks like a bona fide stud. Myers looks like a Parayko clone. Provorov is legitimately excellent. Ghost looks like he's getting his groove back. Sanheim is up & down, but I like that he's been more consistent defensively.
    i'm still not seeing it from ghost; 0 points in his last 6 games, and he was -4 against SJS.

    i'm still cautious regarding zamula, but yeah...things look good there.
    Part of that is that the Flyers were rarely in a position to draft game breakers. We can all disagree as to the reasons for that (and I HATED the Patrick pick) -- but really, when you're drafting in the teens, it's difficult to find electric talents. It can be done, but it isn't nearly as common.
    not being in position to draft gamebreaking talent was the organizational philosophy during the hextall era. to be fair to hextall, the downturn started before he got here (signing bryz; chris pronger getting hit by a bus; letting jagr leave; trading for, then extending macdonald; signing VLC), but his tenure as GM (specifically, after he had traded VLC and pronger midway through his 2nd season as GM) was spent caught between the fart and the poop. hextall refused to improve the team by acquiring veteran talent, but he also refused to jumpstart a rebuild by selling off aging veterans and going in the tank.

    as you say, drafting elite talent outside of the top 10 is not very common. however, because of these (and other) self-imposed constraints, the only way for hextall to make his philosophy work was to consistently do it.


    if that sounds suspicious, welcome to 2017.

  5. #185
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    Part of that is that the Flyers were rarely in a position to draft game breakers. We can all disagree as to the reasons for that (and I HATED the Patrick pick) -- but really, when you're drafting in the teens, it's difficult to find electric talents. It can be done, but it isn't nearly as common.
    you know what...i'll allow it:

    It's JVR all over again
    Unreal. How do we get screwed even when we win?
    Patrick has more size. Nico has more talent. I made no secret that I thought all along that Nico was the superior prospect.
    As in better. As in Patrick Kane-level skill. Patrick is fine...Hirschier has the potential to be elite. Do you want a definition?
    I don't like Patrick nearly as much as I like Hirschier. I've made no secret about it. Guess what? I'm entitled to that opinion.

    Injury history, lack of elite skill...these are red flags.
    Maybe I'm wrong and he ends up as another Toews or Getzlaf caliber center. But I think it's more likely that he's another Keith Primeau, which isn't particularly helpful.

    I hope he ends up being incredible, obviously. But I don't see it. I see Nico as a legitimate game-changer, especially when you pair him with Hall.
    IMO, Patrick doesn't have the ceiling that Hirschier does. And quite a few scouts agree with that assessment. Jack of all trades, master of none.

    And as we continue to see, size is overvalued. Speed and the ability to create are increasingly valuable. Hirschier has the latter in spades.
    Don't pretend that Patrick was EVER as fast as Hirschier....it's just not true.

    He has size and skill, but again, where is he truly, unquestionably elite? No where. Not one thing stands out.

    Yes, he beat up on kids in the WHL. Yes, he's a well rounded player. But again, do I see him as another Toews/Kopitar/Getzlaf? Nope.
    I honestly give his chances of "flopping" at 35%, either as a result of being unable to compete or being chronically injured.
    Patrick has plus everything (and maybe an elite shot), but I don't see the same potential. I see a higher floor, but I also see an exponentially higher injury risk.
    Obviously if the choice is #13 (Suzuki) or Patrick, the latter is the better option. Patrick does have 1C potential, which is something that not all players do. But given the choice between him and Hirschier, I'll take Nico every day and twice on Sunday.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    i'm still not seeing it from ghost; 0 points in his last 6 games, and he was -4 against SJS.

    i'm still cautious regarding zamula, but yeah...things look good there.
    not being in position to draft gamebreaking talent was the organizational philosophy during the hextall era. to be fair to hextall, the downturn started before he got here (signing bryz; chris pronger getting hit by a bus; letting jagr leave; trading for, then extending macdonald; signing VLC), but his tenure as GM (specifically, after he had traded VLC and pronger midway through his 2nd season as GM) was spent caught between the fart and the poop. hextall refused to improve the team by acquiring veteran talent, but he also refused to jumpstart a rebuild by selling off aging veterans and going in the tank.

    as you say, drafting elite talent outside of the top 10 is not very common. however, because of these (and other) self-imposed constraints, the only way for hextall to make his philosophy work was to consistently do it.


    if that sounds suspicious, welcome to 2017.
    havent seen it at all from ghost recently... i really dont understand the love for him tbh.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    havent seen it at all from ghost recently... i really dont understand the love for him tbh.
    He's one of the few explosive players that we have -- and he's actually been pretty responsible defensively.

    Hagg is dreadful -- he's single handedly responsible for 2 of the goals against so far, and he's been torched at least 3 times this season.

  8. #188
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    it actually does look like Hagg is playing for the kings right now lmfao

  9. #189
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    braun is not good.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    braun is not good.
    I'd love to have that 2nd & 3rd back. Plus the money.

  11. #191
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    Why do we insist on dump & chase when they have 3 men back? Why?

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    I'd love to have that 2nd & 3rd back. Plus the money.
    At least it is a 1 year deal ... kill me now if we extend him.

  13. #193
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    please tell me how ghost is a good player? he is literally standing around on defense letting guys skate free right to hart.. ghost and braun are **** man
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 01-02-2020 at 11:47 PM.

  14. #194
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    this is just embarrassing lol

    8 goals the last 2 first periods i believe.

  15. #195
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    ghost just saved a goal.. i take back what i said lol..


    we are being out played from top to bottom again

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