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  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog2683 View Post
    "pre-snap formation..." sounds like scheme to me, though I am probably wrong.
    That is most definitely scheme and what I was alluding to earlier when I said that Gruden is as much to blame as Carr is.

    But it's the day after a blowout, so I'm already well on my way to putting yesterday's game in a pit and torching it from memory. We play Tennessee next, which will also be a stern test. If we lose that game, all talk of playoffs should cease once and for all. Every thread after that should be about the draft and next year in Vegas.

  2. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    That is most definitely scheme and what I was alluding to earlier when I said that Gruden is as much to blame as Carr is.

    But it's the day after a blowout, so I'm already well on my way to putting yesterday's game in a pit and torching it from memory. We play Tennessee next, which will also be a stern test. If we lose that game, all talk of playoffs should cease once and for all. Every thread after that should be about the draft and next year in Vegas.
    Agreed-not to keep waxing nostalgia but thatís what was so special about Rich Gannon. He was an offensive coordinator playing QB and he had the chops to countermand Gruden when he saw something he didnít like. Their shouting matches during games were epic.


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  3. #468
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    Gruden is a big problem, make no mistake.

    -Stork


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    "Win some games, make the playoffs and show me you got some balls under the bright lights"

    -tippa irie

  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Agreed-not to keep waxing nostalgia but thatís what was so special about Rich Gannon. He was an offensive coordinator playing QB and he had the chops to countermand Gruden when he saw something he didnít like. Their shouting matches during games were epic.


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    Except the Bucs said they knew what the play was from the formation and audibles in the Super Bowl. Did not work out too well there. I still place that on Callahan.

  5. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog2683 View Post
    Except the Bucs said they knew what the play was from the formation and audibles in the Super Bowl. Did not work out too well there. I still place that on Callahan.
    Yes, Callahan is definitely to blame for not changing our signs, terminology, etc.

    But we also have to give Callahan credit for doing what the players thought Gruden should have done, which is open up the offense to its true capabilities, instead of constantly calling a conservative game. The offense under Callahan/Trestman/Gannon was bananas. That's the year when Gannon won MVP with our passing game not only stretching the field, but incorporating all of our talented players. I'll go to my grave thinking that it really took a top defense in its prime with answers to the test to beat us in the SB. That and a Pro Bowl caliber center going off his meds.

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    Yes, Callahan is definitely to blame for not changing our signs, terminology, etc.

    But we also have to give Callahan credit for doing what the players thought Gruden should have done, which is open up the offense to its true capabilities, instead of constantly calling a conservative game. The offense under Callahan/Trestman/Gannon was bananas. That's the year when Gannon won MVP with our passing game not only stretching the field, but incorporating all of our talented players. I'll go to my grave thinking that it really took a top defense in its prime with answers to the test to beat us in the SB. That and a Pro Bowl caliber center going off his meds.
    That was the weirdest story line. To this day, I still wonder of what sent him off the rails.

  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog2683 View Post
    Except the Bucs said they knew what the play was from the formation and audibles in the Super Bowl. Did not work out too well there. I still place that on Callahan.
    That was all on the coaching staff. Gannon didnít have a chance.

    Callahan should have stuck with a run heavy game plan.


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  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    Yes, Callahan is definitely to blame for not changing our signs, terminology, etc.

    But we also have to give Callahan credit for doing what the players thought Gruden should have done, which is open up the offense to its true capabilities, instead of constantly calling a conservative game. The offense under Callahan/Trestman/Gannon was bananas. That's the year when Gannon won MVP with our passing game not only stretching the field, but incorporating all of our talented players. I'll go to my grave thinking that it really took a top defense in its prime with answers to the test to beat us in the SB. That and a Pro Bowl caliber center going off his meds.
    Great offense-they win big if anyone other than Jon Gruden is coaching the Bucs. Garner nearly had 1,000 yards rushing and receiving and Gannonís ball distribution was superb.

    Probably the best Raiders offense that I was fortunate to experience. I was really young when Stabler was the QB and only really remember the 1979 season.

    Still-our offensive line was huge and would have presented a mismatch with Tampaís defense. We should have pounded them with Wheatley and Crockett.

    Oh well-I have only recently watched the NFL Films cut up all these years later.


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  9. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Great offense-they win big if anyone other than Jon Gruden is coaching the Bucs. Garner nearly had 1,000 yards rushing and receiving and Gannonís ball distribution was superb.

    Probably the best Raiders offense that I was fortunate to experience. I was really young when Stabler was the QB and only really remember the 1979 season.

    Still-our offensive line was huge and would have presented a mismatch with Tampaís defense. We should have pounded them with Wheatley and Crockett.

    Oh well-I have only recently watched the NFL Films cut up all these years later.


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    The best compliment I could give is that it was almost boring how efficient they were. Oh how I long for those days!

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbacknick View Post
    One of the best defenses? Then why do we keep bringing in these 2nd hand DB's? Our LB's are slow, and the DB's can't cover. Go back and look at all of the big loses this year. Everyone passed to the backs, and we did nothing to remedy that.
    I said we need to build one of the best defenses... Why do they bring in these 2nd hand DBs? Easy cause they were better then the scrubs we had in DJ Hayden among others. To think we are going to fix our problems with one or two drafts, Then you are dreaming. Muellen, Abram, Crosby, Ferrell are all building pieces. If we can add more to this draft I don't see why we can't make strides into being a really good defense.

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffjett View Post
    I understand if the other team is just better than the raiders. But to give 4 first downs to the Chiefs because of inexcusable penalties, no team can win with that. There must be accountability and some *** kicking and the coaches must make the players understand this is unacceptable. Its true we are rebuilding but there is nothing wrong with playing the game the right way as we rebuild. Gruden seems to accept these mistakes with a promise of better days to come. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I was unable to see the game as CBS played the Charger game instead, but I did see some of the highlights. Gruden used to be an *** kicker. Is he so enamored with his $10 mil contract he just does not want to rock the boat? No sense bringing Davis out of his slumber??
    We always led the league in Penalties, Im not gonna say it is a bias. Gruden knew, From his first go round we get screwed. We just need a team that is so strong that it can over come them. If he asks the players to play safe then we will never win.

  12. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by sicknick12 View Post
    I said we need to build one of the best defenses... Why do they bring in these 2nd hand DBs? Easy cause they were better then the scrubs we had in DJ Hayden among others. To think we are going to fix our problems with one or two drafts, Then you are dreaming. Muellen, Abram, Crosby, Ferrell are all building pieces. If we can add more to this draft I don't see why we can't make strides into being a really good defense.
    We don't need one of the best D's. Middle to top 12 will do it.Just goes to show you how far away we are from that. We had opportunities to bring in impact DB's, and did not. Instead we're trying to take the cheap route. DJ Hayden was years ago, why even bring him up?

  13. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by sicknick12 View Post
    Like him or not, I wouldn't want a coach to just coach to make fans happy, Like it or not we know nothing compared to them. I am fine with him doing things his way, And in no way did I ever feel we were in a quick turn around, With the roster we had. If this was year 4 and he had 3-4 complete drafts and FA's. I would be worried. But the lack of stability this organization has had in almost 20 years has made us weak and lack of depth.

    We need to build this team to compete against KC, And that might be trying to build one of the best defenses in the league, And we are far from that.

    Offensively, We were able to move the ball when Williams was more of a threat. That hasn't been the case in a few weeks. We are struggling offensively. We need a play maker at WR. Someone that can stretch the field and get open... And either find a QB that will loosen up defenses or pull Carr aside and say just throw the ball deep. Even if its's incomplete. Get the defense eyes up field.
    Imagine other professionals listening to public critics. Can you imagine if brain surgeons were live on tv. Public on Twitter ďOh man canít believe heís using that technique for incision Iíd have gone in through rectal canalĒ lmfao

  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbacknick View Post
    We don't need one of the best D's. Middle to top 12 will do it.Just goes to show you how far away we are from that. We had opportunities to bring in impact DB's, and did not. Instead we're trying to take the cheap route. DJ Hayden was years ago, why even bring him up?
    it was 2 years ago lol. And that is why we brought in what you called 2nd hand DBs... The 2nd hand DBs are better then what we had.

    We can't bring in 10 top starters from one draft and FA.. Not sure what your expecting. Might be a lil unrealistic.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector View Post
    Imagine other professionals listening to public critics. Can you imagine if brain surgeons were live on tv. Public on Twitter ďOh man canít believe heís using that technique for incision Iíd have gone in through rectal canalĒ lmfao
    Lmao.... Someone put on twitter, Pro Athletes should be allowed to go to your job and Boo....You know you forgot to put the fries in the bag!! lol

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