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  1. #616
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    If the only one we would give of value for Drummond is Powell and hes a FA this year anyway. Ill take the gamble.

  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I think the scenario more likely to be successful is drafting a big man after the season. Charles Bassey, Kai Jones, Usman Garuba, Scottie Barnes, Evan Mobley. There are a lot of intriguing names that will be available at different points in the first round.
    Yeah, and signing a Robin Lopez or Gorgui Djieng (I know I misspelled that), or someone like that for the interim. I like your thinking.

  3. #618
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    If you aren't planning on bringing Powell back after this season it could make sense, I just don't see a world where we let Powell walk. He is a MASSIVE steal on his current contract. If you aren't bringing him back, you MUST trade him and get as much as you can for him. Letting him (or Lowry) walk for nothing after losing Kawhi, Green, Gasol and Ibaka over the last 2 off seasons for NOTHING is inexcusable!!!!

  4. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    If you aren't planning on bringing Powell back after this season it could make sense, I just don't see a world where we let Powell walk. He is a MASSIVE steal on his current contract. If you aren't bringing him back, you MUST trade him and get as much as you can for him. Letting him (or Lowry) walk for nothing after losing Kawhi, Green, Gasol and Ibaka over the last 2 off seasons for NOTHING is inexcusable!!!!
    Way to put it all in to perspective. I 100 percent agree

  5. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Drummond is like the ultimate empty stats guy. Dude is a walking 20 20 but all his teams have been absolute trash. 0 impact. Dude's trade value was absolute ******* despite averaging career numbers. Shows you what the league thinks of this guy.

    Prob better than Baynes tho.
    Drummond is just a piece. Not a focal point. None of his teams were playoff caliber so Iím not sure how fair your statement is.

    Itís like saying Ibaka was trash on the magic. Yeah because the magic were trash bro. So were the Pistons, and so are the Cavs.

  6. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    If you aren't planning on bringing Powell back after this season it could make sense, I just don't see a world where we let Powell walk. He is a MASSIVE steal on his current contract. If you aren't bringing him back, you MUST trade him and get as much as you can for him. Letting him (or Lowry) walk for nothing after losing Kawhi, Green, Gasol and Ibaka over the last 2 off seasons for NOTHING is inexcusable!!!!
    100%. This is why I'm against trading for Drummond. He also can and will likely be a half year rental... in a shortened year! Why would we trade someone because we worry they'll leave, to get someone else that we'll worry they leave. Any trade involving Lowry and/or Powell needs to have draft picks and/or a combination of young prospects. I'm not interested in losing Powell to get Drummond and then lose Drummond 3 months later. Also, for anyone that says we can re-sign him... a) I'm too jaded to just believe that, and b) I don't know if he'll be worth what we'd have to sign him for. Long term, the prospect of getting Drummond this year makes me nervous.

  7. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Raptor View Post
    100%. This is why I'm against trading for Drummond. He also can and will likely be a half year rental... in a shortened year! Why would we trade someone because we worry they'll leave, to get someone else that we'll worry they leave. Any trade involving Lowry and/or Powell needs to have draft picks and/or a combination of young prospects. I'm not interested in losing Powell to get Drummond and then lose Drummond 3 months later. Also, for anyone that says we can re-sign him... a) I'm too jaded to just believe that, and b) I don't know if he'll be worth what we'd have to sign him for. Long term, the prospect of getting Drummond this year makes me nervous.
    We will have his bird rights. Chances are Drummond will not be getting very many big offers. Heís a traditional big that only cost the Cavs a 2nd rounder to attain. The only teams he would help are those who lack rebounding which is us. We could resign him for relatively cheap. If another team gives him a low ball offer we can easily match. If someone offers him a poison pill contract we let him walk. Oh and Powel will also be a free agent so we can easily sign him back as well. Thereís isnít much to lose here as Drummond wonít cost much. Especially knowing that the Cavs gave up peanuts to get him.

  8. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Drummond is just a piece. Not a focal point. None of his teams were playoff caliber so Iím not sure how fair your statement is.

    Itís like saying Ibaka was trash on the magic. Yeah because the magic were trash bro. So were the Pistons, and so are the Cavs.
    Ibaka wasn't averaging career numbers and putting up 20/20 every night. What kind of comparison is that? People thought he was washed because his numbers were ****. Point is, Drummond puts up monster numbers and nobody in the league gives a ****. Even when Kevin Love was putting up monster numbers on a garbage Minny team, execs were outbidding themselves to try to get him.

  9. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Ibaka wasn't averaging career numbers and putting up 20/20 every night. What kind of comparison is that? People thought he was washed because his numbers were ****. Point is, Drummond puts up monster numbers and nobody in the league gives a ****. Even when Kevin Love was putting up monster numbers on a garbage Minny team, execs were outbidding themselves to try to get him.
    The comparison is to say that the team they are on matters. You canít take a guy on a rebuilding team and say yeah his numbers are meaningless. Itís a team game. In order for a team to be good, they need an actual team. The teams Drummonds been on were both rebuilding teams so of course youíre gonna get inflated stats. That doesnít mean he canít be a piece on a playoff team and contribute to wins.

    Also Drummond has always been an elite rebounder. I can agree that his offensive numbers are inflated but I donít think his rebounding numbers are going to all of a sudden decline on a new team. They didnít when going from the Pistons to the Cavs. Thereís no reason to think theyíll be any different on our team.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 02-15-2021 at 07:31 PM.

  10. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    The comparison is to say that the team they are on matters. You canít take a guy on a rebuilding team and say yeah his numbers are meaningless. Itís a team game. In order for a team to be good, they need an actual team. The teams Drummonds been on were both rebuilding teams so of course youíre gonna get inflated stats. That doesnít mean he canít be a piece on a playoff treat and contribute to wins.
    Sure it's a team game but this is basketball, one of the few sports where a single individual can make a huge impact. So when a guy is putting up big numbers and it doesn't translate and there's little to no love from execs around the league, it's obvious the guy is zero impact.

    Front offices obviously know that teams tank/rebuild and adjust their evaluations of players.

    Besides that wasn't even my original point. My original point was that he put up career numbers and his trade value was still garbage. That means league wide opinion on him is pretty ****ing low. i.e people who get paid millions of dollars to nerd out about bball think he is worthless. The Pistons legit got nothing for him, even the second round pick they got was a pick swap and it was the lesser of the swap. Ibaka played like **** and still got a first rounder.

  11. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Sure it's a team game but this is basketball, one of the few sports where a single individual can make a huge impact. So when a guy is putting up big numbers and it doesn't translate and there's little to no love from execs around the league, it's obvious the guy is zero impact.

    Front offices obviously know that teams tank/rebuild and adjust their evaluations of players.

    Besides that wasn't even my original point. My original point was that he put up career numbers and his trade value was still garbage. That means league wide opinion on him is pretty ****ing low. i.e people who get paid millions of dollars to nerd out about bball think he is worthless. The Pistons legit got nothing for him, even the second round pick they got was a pick swap and it was the lesser of the swap. Ibaka played like **** and still got a first rounder.
    No, itís a star driven league: the team goes as far as your star players take them. And Drummond although paid like one, is not a star player. The Pistons just didnít figure that out before they gave him that contract.

    If he didnít have good numbers on bad teams he would just be a scrub. But having good numbers on a bad team doesnít equate to wins if the rest of the team is garbage and I think you know that.

    Would those 13.5 rebounds be empty stats if he was on Toronto and helping the team win?
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 02-15-2021 at 08:01 PM.

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    No, itís a star driven league: the team goes as far as your star players take them. And Drummond although paid like one, is not a star player. The Pistons just didnít figure that out before they gave him that contract.

    If he didnít have good numbers on bad teams he would just be a scrub. But having good numbers on a bad team doesnít equate to wins if the rest of the team is garbage and I think you know that.

    Would those 13.5 rebounds be empty stats if he was on Toronto and helping the team win?
    Like I said that wasn't really my point. It wasn't about him having big numbers on a bad team. It was about him putting up big numbers and nobody in any front office giving a remote **** about it. There are other players that have put up big numbers on a **** team and execs wanted to trade their first born for these players. So what gives? I think it's obvious nobody in the NBA thinks much of his impact.

    I mean if teams thought Drummond could contribute and impact the game in a meaningful way, he wouldn't have been traded for a second round swap and two players that aren't in the NBA anymore.
    Last edited by ecart; 02-15-2021 at 08:38 PM.

  13. #628
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    Well itís because heís not a modern big. Thatís fairly obvious bro

    Teams want big men to spread the floor now. Drummond is a traditional big who doesnít shoot outside the paint. In general the value of bigs like that have dropped significantly. Which is why Drummond will never sniff a contract close to the one heís currently on.

    The only reason I have interest in him is because I donít think he will cost a lot of assets, and our FO ****ed up with our free agent bigs and now weíre desperate. Litterally desperate because Baynes is our only 5, and any team with Baynes as itís primary big man is going to struggle.

    So Drummond is an option. Is he the best option? No, heís not but heís one of the few options available. If we sit on our hands we might as well rebuild because going in to the post season with Baynes as your primary big is a recipe for disaster. I think we can agree on that.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 02-15-2021 at 09:08 PM.

  14. #629
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    Of all teams, I can see Mavs taking him.

    If Dwight Powell still good? I know hes coming back from injury but how much as it affected him. I don't mind doing something like

    Raps get: Dwight Powell
    Mavs get: Drummond and Norman
    Cavs get: james Johnson, WCS and 2nd round pick from Mavs

  15. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Well itís because heís not a modern big. Thatís fairly obvious bro

    Teams want big men to spread the floor now. Drummond is a traditional big who doesnít shoot outside the paint. In general the value of bigs like that have dropped significantly. Which is why Drummond will never sniff a contract close to the one heís currently on.

    The only reason I have interest in him is because I donít think he will cost a lot of assets, and our FO ****ed up with our free agent bigs and now weíre desperate. Litterally desperate because Baynes is our only 5, and any team with Baynes as itís primary big man is going to struggle.

    So Drummond is an option. Is he the best option? No, heís not but heís one of the few options available. If we sit on our hands we might as well rebuild because going in to the post season with Baynes as your primary big is a recipe for disaster. I think we can agree on that.
    It's not just because he's not a modern big. He's just poop period.

    Drummond's contract is pretty fat so that's not exactly true either.

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