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  1. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Can I get a rough idea of the type of pick and type of player you'd expect? I just want to know what you're afraid to miss out on.
    Doesnít necessarily matter what we think. We just know thereís value in Lowry and would prefer to capitalize on that value rather than lose him for nothing.

    Also if sending him to his home town to compete for a ship is his wish I think Masai will grant it. Heís deserves to leave on his terms weather it be a trade to a contender or to leave in free agency to a contender. But it would be wise for us to get something in return while we can.

  2. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    It has everything to do with impact.

    Iím not gonna pretend that I know what any GM does. But as I mentioned before Iím a rockets fan Iíve witnessed Morey make more moves than any other GM or POB during his tenure. He has literally done it all. So timing is not going to stop him from making moves if he sees it as an improvement.

    I understand that you think itís not a good deal for them and although I donít agree I canít see your side to it. Weíre just discussing trade ideas. If your adamant that Morey simply wonít do the trade for timing purposes then thereís really nothing left to discuss. Especially since weíre on two complete different ends of the spectrum. I talk to the guys in the Philly forum and they seem to think Lowry would be exactly the type of player they need.
    Nah I never said Morey won't do a trade. I just said he won't do that particular trade. He'll give you something like Green+Maxey+FRP+filler but he's not going to give you Green+Curry+Thybulle+FRP or even Green+Thybulle+FRP. And like I said earlier, it would be more likely for Morey to find a third or fourth team to get assets to worm himself out of that ultimatum.

    I mean Morey, Ainge, Cuban etc has talked about this before. Big trades that basically forces them to change their gameplan, team organization etc rarely happen at the deadline. GMs are scared of messing things up even if they're on the winning side of a trade. They would rather do **** like this in the offseason to give coaches and players time.

  3. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Mid to late 1st rounder in a very exciting draft. Expiring contracts. Recently drafted prospect that still has some ceiling.

    Resigning may be an option, but 30 million in cap space could be spent on younger options.

    If he wants to stay for the Raptors legacy, then that is fine, but this core got expensive quick and we have traded a lot of young talent and picks the past few years. Time to bring some youth into this culture and cultivate it.

    I donít love the idea of 100 million annually on a Lowry/Powell/FVV/Siakam/Anunoby core.
    Well said.

    I think another first round pick would be great. We could possibly combine our pick with it and move up and to my understanding this is going to be a deep draft. Considering the fact that our scouting team can find undrafted gems and or in the 2nd round, two first round picks would be great.

    Also the two prospects I would love if weíre doing a deal with the 6ers are Thybulle and Bradley. The rest would be expiring deals as you mentioned.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 02-25-2021 at 01:59 PM.

  4. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Nah I never said Morey won't do a trade. I just said he won't do that particular trade. He'll give you something like Green+Maxey+FRP+filler but he's not going to give you Green+Curry+Thybulle+FRP or even Green+Thybulle+FRP. And like I said earlier, it would be more likely for Morey to find a third or fourth team to get assets to worm himself out of that ultimatum.

    I mean Morey, Ainge, Cuban etc has talked about this before. Big trades that basically forces them to change their gameplan, team organization etc rarely happen at the deadline. GMs are scared of messing things up even if they're on the winning side of a trade. They would rather do **** like this in the offseason to give coaches and players time.
    Morey changes his game plan on the fly. He will likely trade anyone not named Embiid if he perceives the deal as an upgrade, also he has no loyalty to anyone on the roster, heís literally just getting started over there. Morey will flip that roster every season until he feels he has a winner. Thatís exactly what he did in Houston, making big splash after big splash year after year after year. I donít remember two seasons in a row where we had the same core in the Harden era. It was a revolving door. When I say gun slinger I mean exactly that. Itís just his style. Does that mean that a deal is inevitable? No of course not. A deal between Masai and Morey would be interesting but I have yet seen Masai lose in a trade where as Morey has made more than one questionable move to say the least. So I feel comfortable atleast knowing Masai is at that table.

    I donít know that Green is a part of their long term plans. Heís an expiring contract. Heís not even a player we want. The idea was simply to make salaries closer to matching. My guess is that green will continue to be a journey man and will sign small deals with contenders in the final few years of his career.

    Ferguson was never in my proposed trade. I quoted you with my own trade proposal if you recall and you said that Green, and Thybulle would be deal breakers for them. I think we would be conservative in asking for that trade package tbh

  5. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Morey changes his game plan on the fly. He will likely trade anyone not named Embiid if he perceives the deal as an upgrade, also he has no loyalty to anyone on the roster, heís literally just getting started over there. Morey will flip that roster every season until he feels he has a winner. Thatís exactly what he did in Houston, making big splash after big splash year after year after year. I donít remember two seasons in a row where we had the same core in the Harden era. It was a revolving door. When I say gun slinger I mean exactly that. Itís just his style. Does that mean that a deal is inevitable? No of course not. A deal between Masai and Morey would be interesting but I have yet seen Masai lose in a trade where as Morey has made more than one questionable move to say the least. So I feel comfortable atleast knowing Masai is at that table.
    lol the only time Morey has made significant moves at the deadline in the Harden era was the Capela trade because they were playing like ****. The guy makes waves, but he also values chemistry and understands that it takes time. It's simply not his style to make a move at the deadline. It took us a whole year to get used to Kawhi who was basically the most perfect fit and even then our chemistry was wonky up until the finals.

    Guys that make moves at the deadline are fighting for their jobs or make trades off their gut feelings. Morey doesn't do that ****. I don't think you know Morey as well as you think you do if you think Morey changes **** on the fly. Everything he does is calculated.


    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I donít know that Green is a part of their long term plans. Heís an expiring contract. Heís not even a player we want. The idea was simply to make salaries closer to matching. My guess is that green will continue to be a journey man and will sign small deals with contenders in the final few years of his career.

    Ferguson was never in my proposed trade. I quoted you with my own trade proposal if you recall and you said that Green, and Thybulle would be deal breakers for them. I think we would be conservative in asking for that trade package tbh
    I never mentioned Ferguson lol. FRP = first round pick.

    Nah they need Green for salaries to match, but he's not going to decimate their wing depth in one swoop. Like I said earlier, he'll give you one but not both. He's going to need Thybulle for the run.

    You do realize we have little to no leverage, right? None of the other contenders have **** to give and they have the home town advantage. Lowry is gonna be in Philly one way or another, just depends when.
    Last edited by ecart; 02-25-2021 at 03:13 PM.

  6. #741
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    If this happens I hope it is a 3 or 4 team trade. We are already crowded at SG and don't really need Curry or Green cutting into Norm's minutes at the 2. I would literally rather get Andre Drummond and a pick than Seth Curry, Danny Green, Tony Bradley and a pick. At least Drummond would give us something we desperately need (defensive rebounding) while not overcrowding our back court again.

  7. #742
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    Drummond is literally a negative asset...lol. Cavs got him from a heavily protected second rounder. You're high if you want Drummond over a pick bare minimum. Doesn't matter what you think about the other guys, even if it is a late first round pick that **** is worth way more than anything Drummond can muster up.
    Last edited by ecart; 02-25-2021 at 04:14 PM.

  8. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Drummond is literally a negative asset...lol. Cavs got him from a heavily protected second rounder. You're high if you want Drummond over a pick bare minimum. Doesn't matter what you think about the other guys, even if it is a late first round pick that **** is worth way more than anything Drummond can muster up.
    +1

  9. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Drummond is literally a negative asset...lol. Cavs got him from a heavily protected second rounder. You're high if you want Drummond over a pick bare minimum. Doesn't matter what you think about the other guys, even if it is a late first round pick that **** is worth way more than anything Drummond can muster up.
    I actually said Drummond and a pick vs the crap from philly and a pick. So I didn't give up the pick, just the salary fillers Philly needs to include in order to get Lowry. I would rather just have a large expiring in Drummond that helps us (imo) this season than the packages rumored from Philly. It isn't my love for Drummond, just my dislike for any package Philly can offer.

    This team needs help on the glass....BAD!!! Over the last 6 weeks, they have been rolling. After their 2-8 start they have gone 14-9. Which for a team without a true home court is actually very impressive. Drummond is one of the best in the NBA at vacuuming up rebounds. Also, the guy has never been on a good team. He was stuck rolling with Greg Monroe and Reggie Jackson for years...and then with a has been Blake Griffin. The Pistons haven't gotten better after getting rid of him this year and replacing him with a very good Jerami Grant. Cleveland didn't get better after sitting him down this year. Jarrett Allen has played really well and they still getting waxed on a regular basis. So I don't think them losing was on Drummond.


    He isn't worth his contract, but not many 30M dollar players who are actually become available. I think in this environment under a coach like Nick Nurse and surrounded by shooters like FVV, Powell and OG spacing the floor he can be a different player than the guy we have seen in Detroit. He prob isn't someone they can play at the end of close games (just like Baynes) because of his FT%, but it would allow them to stop relying on their small ball lineup so much.



    He isn't the ideal return for losing the heart of your franchise, but I like him better than the packages being rumored from Philly to go with our current roster. If you make that trade with Philly straight up, you are still stuck playing small the rest of the season...unless they trade someone else for a better C than Bradley.

    I am open to other ideas, Drummond was just the extreme example of how much I don't want Green and Curry crowding up the SG position for Powell.

  10. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    I actually said Drummond and a pick vs the crap from philly and a pick. So I didn't give up the pick, just the salary fillers Philly needs to include in order to get Lowry. I would rather just have a large expiring in Drummond that helps us (imo) this season than the packages rumored from Philly. It isn't my love for Drummond, just my dislike for any package Philly can offer.

    This team needs help on the glass....BAD!!! Over the last 6 weeks, they have been rolling. After their 2-8 start they have gone 14-9. Which for a team without a true home court is actually very impressive. Drummond is one of the best in the NBA at vacuuming up rebounds. Also, the guy has never been on a good team. He was stuck rolling with Greg Monroe and Reggie Jackson for years...and then with a has been Blake Griffin. The Pistons haven't gotten better after getting rid of him this year and replacing him with a very good Jerami Grant. Cleveland didn't get better after sitting him down this year. Jarrett Allen has played really well and they still getting waxed on a regular basis. So I don't think them losing was on Drummond.


    He isn't worth his contract, but not many 30M dollar players who are actually become available. I think in this environment under a coach like Nick Nurse and surrounded by shooters like FVV, Powell and OG spacing the floor he can be a different player than the guy we have seen in Detroit. He prob isn't someone they can play at the end of close games (just like Baynes) because of his FT%, but it would allow them to stop relying on their small ball lineup so much.



    He isn't the ideal return for losing the heart of your franchise, but I like him better than the packages being rumored from Philly to go with our current roster. If you make that trade with Philly straight up, you are still stuck playing small the rest of the season...unless they trade someone else for a better C than Bradley.

    I am open to other ideas, Drummond was just the extreme example of how much I don't want Green and Curry crowding up the SG position for Powell.
    Drummond has some of the worst advanced stats in the league. You don't actually want him to do more lol. He's okay if he just catches lobs and rebounds but once his ego kicks in, he's deadweight.

    Well, they're not going to give you Curry. They have him for the next 2 years and they need all the shooting they can get. He would be very hard to replace for them.

    Green is an expiring so shouldn't really be a problem. I don't really want to pay Powell, so getting someone like Maxey is pretty enticing.

    Jarrett Allen would have been nice for us but we prob didnt want to pay him.

  11. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Can I get a rough idea of the type of pick and type of player you'd expect? I just want to know what you're afraid to miss out on.
    I firmly believe Lowry is going to sign with a Contender in the off-season. Given this is a deep draft, any first round pick would do at this point. Given how well MU does with late picks, I don't think we would need a lotto pick. Plus lowry would be traded to a contender, so the pick is not going to be high unless there is a 3rd team involved. I rather get something than lose him for absolutely nothing given Lowry is not a useless expiring contract.

  12. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    I firmly believe Lowry is going to sign with a Contender in the off-season. Given this is a deep draft, any first round pick would do at this point. Given how well MU does with late picks, I don't think we would need a lotto pick. Plus lowry would be traded to a contender, so the pick is not going to be high unless there is a 3rd team involved. I rather get something than lose him for absolutely nothing given Lowry is not a useless expiring contract.
    Letís estimate the pick ends up landing a player between Caboclo or Siakam in quality.

  13. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Letís estimate the pick ends up landing a player between Caboclo or Siakam in quality.
    Remember when Caboclo was two years away from being two years away? Well I did the math and I think heís only about a year and a half away now lol

  14. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Mid to late 1st rounder in a very exciting draft. Expiring contracts. Recently drafted prospect that still has some ceiling.

    Resigning may be an option, but 30 million in cap space could be spent on younger options.

    If he wants to stay for the Raptors legacy, then that is fine, but this core got expensive quick and we have traded a lot of young talent and picks the past few years. Time to bring some youth into this culture and cultivate it.

    I donít love the idea of 100 million annually on a Lowry/Powell/FVV/Siakam/Anunoby core.
    We traded JV, Delon and CJ for Gasol. Lowry is better but I'd be expecting something more like that return. A 1st and a promising young prospect would be hard to fathom. I'm not interested in Thybulle like others are.

    My guess is he re-signs at a discount. This is his team. You see the way he interacts with everyone out there. He's not ready to leave especially knowing there's a young core in place. If Lowry signs at a discount and Masai maxes John Collins then we're a contender to come out of the East.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  15. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    I firmly believe Lowry is going to sign with a Contender in the off-season. Given this is a deep draft, any first round pick would do at this point. Given how well MU does with late picks, I don't think we would need a lotto pick. Plus lowry would be traded to a contender, so the pick is not going to be high unless there is a 3rd team involved. I rather get something than lose him for absolutely nothing given Lowry is not a useless expiring contract.
    I just think Lowry can bring a lot more to the table over the next 2 seasons than a young prospect would. I'm not denying that Masai is great at drafting in the 20's. He has the track record. I just don't think trading the heart and soul of a team is a good idea unless it's being blown up. This team is clearly not being blown up.

    Who's the leader if Lowry leaves?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

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