Rumor Mill/ Trade Ideas Thread

[smith&wesson]

This is a good discussion. One that will carry on to the dead line

[ChongInc.]

Agreed. I find it interesting that we always focus on the “hits” when we’ve had plenty of misses.

Picking outside the lottery is a crap shoot. I don’t think it’s something you hang your hat on if you’re infact trying to build through the draft. So focusing on FVV and Siakam because they were undrafted or picked later in the draft is not exactly what we can expect as those were gems. Thinking that we’re gonna hit every time on late picks or undrafted picks is wishfull to say the least. It’s not a game plan.

Because the hit rate matters and the miss rate doesn’t.

[ChongInc.]

Since 2015 we’ve drafted 10 players and hit on 5 of them. 50% is pretty dam good but like
I said later picks are a crap shoot. You gotta consider the David Johnson’s, Jalen Harris’, Flynn’s, Hernandes’…. We don’t hit on every pick like some people seem to think and it does matter where we draft as I see a clear advantage in the first round (which makes sense)

I actually like Wright, but was he a hit or miss at pick 20? I can go either way on that. There was a time I really believed in his development but he’s quickly become a journey man.

50% is ****ing insane considering the draft position and NBA title.

Probably among the best stretches of drafting for any team in any sport. We have also traded multiple 1sts in that stretch, and hit on undrafted talent to supplement those numbers.

Shocked at the negative vibe of the above comment smith.

[ChongInc.]

I think they've missed on players that have been in their system as well like Gary Payton II, Cameron Payne etc. I'm not saying theyre bad at scouting, just feels like they have tunnel vision, lack of resources and/or their models are only good for certain types of players.

Brisette… boucher, FVV. but that is the scouting department and development system flexing. We cannot keep guys that we don’t have roster spots or minutes for. Cutting guys with guaranties has cap consequences. Expect a lot more of this feeling if the scouting and development keeps doing what they’re doing. But also don’t expect these guys to have long and prosperous careers. I’d say we kept the best of the bunch (best = longest and most impactful nba careers) in boucher and FVV.

[ecart]

Brisette… boucher, FVV. but that is the scouting department and development system flexing. We cannot keep guys that we don’t have roster spots or minutes for. Cutting guys with guaranties has cap consequences. Expect a lot more of this feeling if the scouting and development keeps doing what they’re doing. But also don’t expect these guys to have long and prosperous careers. I’d say we kept the best of the bunch on boucher and FVV.

Had nothing to do with that. They just weren't interested and whiffed. I think you're kinda missing the point. The point isn't that they're bad at scouting, the point is that as we move forward because they've had big hits, they need to do better winning on the margins, because that is an area they need to improve in. Since it is one of the few avenues we have to improve this team going forward.

[ChongInc.]

That’s what I’m saying we need to pick a direction and stick with it. Getting FVV to the asg is nice but also meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It also indicates that we have two all stars and a budding star in Barnes. What else does a core need?

As for the cleaveland trade, I was hoping for a similar deal for Turner, but those greedy bastards want two picks.

I see Cleveland and the Raptors in a similar light. The difference is we already had FVV/Siakam/OG where as they had to add Allen and Markennin etc. Both teams landed a stud that will be the corner stone of their franchises. Both guys already playing at a high level. So it wouldn’t shock me to see us add the same way they have. We’re kinda ready to compete with this core.

I know you guys have your doubts about the core. But I’m Fairly confident that Masai believes in FVV/Siakam/OG and now Barnes. They are all his picks and guys he chose. It’s his core.

I don’t think they will get 2 1sts for turner with his injury. I see a very similar thing developing like what happened with Ibaka. Ultimately our 1st was the best offer on the table. He will go to a team like ours that is planning for a more serious run next season.

As far as this core - I definitely believe in them. Great little 2-way core we have. But we are still missing that superstar. So I believe in them to an extent.

[ChongInc.]

Had nothing to do with that. They just weren't interested and whiffed. I think you're kinda missing the point. The point isn't that they're bad at scouting, the point is that as we move forward because they've had big hits, they need to do better winning on the margins, because that is an area they need to improve in. Since it is one of the few avenues we have to improve this team going forward.

Yeah but what I’m saying is we have been operating in the margins for years and we have done an absolutely astonishing job at it. Those few guys carving out a minor role for themselves after a year in our development system is not highlighting what you think it is.

[ecart]

Yeah but what I’m saying is we have been operating in the margins for years and we have done an absolutely astonishing job at it. Those few guys carving out a minor role for themselves after a year in our development system is not highlighting what you think it is.

How so? Teams that win on the margins don't give up those gimmes for free.

"a year in our development system" lol. Really winning on the margins when we're developing players for free.

Fyi, they have been successful in the past, but I'm talking about the situation now. We certainly haven't done a good job lately and it is why we have the problems that we do.

[bartron_44]

I don't know why Powell is considered just a jump shooter, but do you know what you can get against pretty much any defense... A jump shot. Why do you think he always seems to show up in the playoffs when defenses tighten up? It isn't because he's a one trick pony.

I would argue Powell is also great in transition, and at finishing above the rim for a SG. He just doesnt have above average handles to break people down 1-on-1. Get him the ball on the move though and he pretty darn good at completing that play in our system.

I think Powell makes our starting lineup even better the way he excels in this system, and if they could bring a shot creator like GTJ off the bench that would make their bench a lot better too. The nice thing about adding him instead of Turner is that it gives them longer to keep adding finishing touches to this team. They would have FVV, Siakam, OG, Barnes, Powell and GTJ for more than just this season. ..and if they don't upgrade him at the deadline they will have Boucher's bird rights to be able to keep him whatever their cap situation is too. Not to mention Achiuwa who should only keep getting better too.

Im not ready to give up on Banton yet either. He's another 6'8\6'9 guy that can play PG or PF depending on how you want to use him, and another guy that is straight dominating in the G league as they develop him. He's averaging 27/7/5 while shooting over 50% from the field and 35% (on almost 6 attempts per game) from deep. I still think he has a chance to become a solid rotation piece in this new style they are trying to play.

If they can turn Dragic into another solid rotation piece this team is set up to keep growing together for years. Make it happen Masai!!

[ecart]

Powell would be great too since he is always injured and never plays and when he does we lose. We could add another lottery pick.

[pebloemer]

Since 2015 we’ve drafted 10 players and hit on 5 of them. 50% is pretty dam good but like
I said later picks are a crap shoot. You gotta consider the David Johnson’s, Jalen Harris’, Flynn’s, Hernandes’…. We don’t hit on every pick like some people seem to think and it does matter where we draft as I see a clear advantage in the first round (which makes sense)

I actually like Wright, but was he a hit or miss at pick 20? I can go either way on that. There was a time I really believed in his development but he’s quickly become a journey man.

One of the guys you mentioned hasn't played yet (Johnson). I don't have a lot of faith in him personally, but a bit early to call him a miss. Two of the names you mentioned were like 59th overall. That is about the same as undrafted territory. Which we can include but it would be fair to mention names like Terence Davis, FVV and Champagnie as well in the group.

[smith&wesson]

50% is ****ing insane considering the draft position and NBA title.

Probably among the best stretches of drafting for any team in any sport. We have also traded multiple 1sts in that stretch, and hit on undrafted talent to supplement those numbers.

Shocked at the negative vibe of the above comment smith.

My point is if we’re gonna build through the draft we should commit to it. Play the young players more, focus on developing, while improving our draft position. Maybe trade some guys for more draft assets like (GTJ/Boucher/Flynn,Dragic etc..)

Or stay with the core and add at the dead line to help them compete. Staying in the middle of the pack doesn’t help draft odds, nor does it help us compete. This is a discussion about direction. I’m not sure where you’re getting negative vibes. I feel like there’s two options here and we need to take one.

if you have ideas of how you’d like to see the team move fwd you’re welcome to share them.

[smith&wesson]

One of the guys you mentioned hasn't played yet (Johnson). I don't have a lot of faith in him personally, but a bit early to call him a miss. Two of the names you mentioned were like 59th overall. That is about the same as undrafted territory. Which we can include but it would be fair to mention names like Terence Davis, FVV and Champagnie as well in the group.

I know that’s why I mentioned FVV. He was undrafted right? My point is those are gems not the norm. And I’d prefer to get more picks like you suggested and try to improve our draft odds. Or there’s the other option like the Grange article you shared suggested, try to add at the tdl.

If we’re looking toward the draft then f it, sell off anyone not named Barnes, OG, FVV, Siakam.

[pebloemer]

My point is if we’re gonna build through the draft we should commit to it. Play the young players more, focus on developing, while improving our draft position. Maybe trade some guys for more draft assets like (GTJ/Boucher/Flynn,Dragic etc..)

Or stay with the core and add at the dead line to help them compete. Staying in the middle of the pack doesn’t help draft odds, nor does it help us compete. This is a discussion about direction. I’m not sure where you’re getting negative vibes. I feel like there’s two options here and we need to take one.

if you have ideas of how you’d like to see the team move fwd you’re welcome to share them.

I think part of our disagreement stems from me wanting Nurse to give some of the young guys more run. If they aren't ready, I think that chooses the direction for us and we get better draft position anyways. If they play well and improve, we suddenly don't need to go shopping as much and the direction looks clearer going forward. You mentioned earlier Masai lets the play of his team determine the direction (he has in the past). I feel like Nurse is putting the organization in an unclear spot by not playing more guys.

I have a ton of respect for Nurse and won't find myself coaching in the NBA at any point in my life, but these 6 man rotations have felt a little much.

[smith&wesson]

I think part of our disagreement stems from me wanting Nurse to give some of the young guys more run. If they aren't ready, I think that chooses the direction for us and we get better draft position anyways. If they play well and improve, we suddenly don't need to go shopping as much and the direction looks clearer going forward. You mentioned earlier Masai lets the play of his team determine the direction (he has in the past). I feel like Nurse is putting the organization in an unclear spot by not playing more guys.

I have a ton of respect for Nurse and won't find myself coaching in the NBA at any point in my life, but these 6 man rotations have felt a little much.

We’re not disagreeing at all. If that’s the direction we’re going to go in, I wanna lean harder towards it and do the things you’re suggesting. Play the young guys more, try do get more draft assets, and naturally with out tanking we will improve our draft position because let’s face it these young guys aren’t moving the needle this year. So yes that would determine the direction and have no issue with that direction if it’s the route we’re taking.

But I really think Nurse wants to win. I believe that Masai likes this core so yeah I kinda agree with Grange that if that’s the case we lean harder that way and try to get these guys help.

I’m ok with either one. Middle of the pack is what I don’t want. Play in for what?