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  1. #3346
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Which non core pieces net us picks? Id love that lol problem is outside of our core we have straight up 💩

    But youre probably right, I guess these guys dont move the needle unless you get like 3-4 of them and really have a potent bench but thats not realistic either.
    I mean we got 46/47 overall last year for Terence Davis and Matt Thomas. Sometimes other teams identify a player on your team they want an extra look at (SAC with Davis), other times a contender wants to make sure they have a specialist that can help for certain situations in a playoff run (Thomas with Utah).

    Svi, Watanabe, Boucher, Flynn could all have teams interested. I don't consider Trent or Achiuwa as core pieces necessarily either and they definitely would have value. I don't expect either to be dealt though. It would have to be a strong offer for the team to part with either right now.

  2. #3347
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    He's not really an inside scorer idk.
    Hes shooting 51% while almost half his shots come from beyond the arc at a 33% clip. Id say that makes him fairly automatic when hes inside the arc. Indiana just has him spending a lot of time in the corners leaving the paint open for Sabonis.

  3. #3348
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    Gonna throw some ideas out there:

    Boucher and Flynn for Coby White and Tony Bradley.
    (White hasn't quite blossomed like his pedigree suggests it could have. Lonzo is there now. Chicago wants to compete now and with Patrick Williams down, could use PF help. Flynn gives a cheap controllable option as backup PG to replace White for the interim).

    Lonne Walker IV and 2nd round pick for Malachi Flynn and Svi Mykhailuik
    (Walker will be an RFA this summer but hasn't quite turned into the player his could have. Some injury issues have something to do with it, but SAS have also had lots of guards. Spurs get a look at Svi and two cheap years of Malachi to try to develop him. Walker might not be in the long term picture anyways).

    Chris Boucher for Dario Saric and 2024 first rounder.
    (Boucher could be seen as an upgrade over Saric. His advanced numbers are certainly much better. Saric has an extra year at 9 million left on his deal after this one before expiring. Bridges contract jumps next year and Ayton will need a new one. We take 1 extra year at 9 million, get a useful piece in Saric and take a future first rounder).

  4. #3349
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Gonna throw some ideas out there:

    Boucher and Flynn for Coby White and Tony Bradley.
    (White hasn't quite blossomed like his pedigree suggests it could have. Lonzo is there now. Chicago wants to compete now and with Patrick Williams down, could use PF help. Flynn gives a cheap controllable option as backup PG to replace White for the interim).

    Lonne Walker IV and 2nd round pick for Malachi Flynn and Svi Mykhailuik
    (Walker will be an RFA this summer but hasn't quite turned into the player his could have. Some injury issues have something to do with it, but SAS have also had lots of guards. Spurs get a look at Svi and two cheap years of Malachi to try to develop him. Walker might not be in the long term picture anyways).

    Chris Boucher for Dario Saric and 2024 first rounder.
    (Boucher could be seen as an upgrade over Saric. His advanced numbers are certainly much better. Saric has an extra year at 9 million left on his deal after this one before expiring. Bridges contract jumps next year and Ayton will need a new one. We take 1 extra year at 9 million, get a useful piece in Saric and take a future first rounder).
    Co sign on all on all those if we can manage to pull any of them off.

  5. #3350
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I mean we got 46/47 overall last year for Terence Davis and Matt Thomas. Sometimes other teams identify a player on your team they want an extra look at (SAC with Davis), other times a contender wants to make sure they have a specialist that can help for certain situations in a playoff run (Thomas with Utah).

    Svi, Watanabe, Boucher, Flynn could all have teams interested. I don't consider Trent or Achiuwa as core pieces necessarily either and they definitely would have value. I don't expect either to be dealt though. It would have to be a strong offer for the team to part with either right now.
    I would trade Flynn, Yuta, Svi for second rounders. In a heart beat

  6. #3351
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    He was playing with the starters while being the 3rd or 4th option. If hes coming off the bench hell be the 1st option with no PG.
    Not sure how much bubble play you watched, but he was our only option at times.

  7. #3352
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    So stay the course and remain in no mans land? Were not bad enough to be a lottery team as we have all star caliber players. And were not good enough to compete with out a solid supporting cast & depth.

    So were gonna be in that 7-8 range? Aka NBA hell?

    I guess Im having a hard time understanding our direction. Do we want to make the most of Freddy and Siakam while we have them? Or should we trade them to gain as many assets as possible while their value is high?

    Staying in the middle of the pack doesnt help either direction. Shouldnt we be choosing one?!
    I hear what you are saying, but I think we are stuck at the moment. Getting guys like powell or Turner won't move the needle much, unless you are getting both. But we don't have the assets for that. I wouldn't trade away our draft picks. If the team ends up in 7/8 spot and get bounced in round 1, can't do much. Next 2 years are going to be painful/interesting.

  8. #3353
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Hes shooting 51% while almost half his shots come from beyond the arc at a 33% clip. Id say that makes him fairly automatic when hes inside the arc. Indiana just has him spending a lot of time in the corners leaving the paint open for Sabonis.
    I mean he can finish easy baskets inside. I just don't really think of that as being able to score inside.

  9. #3354
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    Dosunmu and H. Jones are absolute studs from the second round of this draft. Would love more chances to hit on late picks. Many of them are creating massive boosts for the teams that draft them. No shortage in depth in the NBA draft these days. Need scouting and development, but I believe NBA drafts are collectively better than they've ever been historically. So many prospects have access to coaching and performance departments early in life that they never had before. Raptors have drafted and development better than most NBA teams. Now is the time to leverage those strengths.

    The immediacy bias wants us to take plays we know can produce now, but players like Gordon and Powell for example are what they are and won't get better. Strike the right pick and you get someone who is better in the first 1-2 years than they will be with loads of upside and cheap controllability moving forward. Trusting scouting and development is the key forward IMO.
    Last edited by pebloemer; 01-24-2022 at 10:54 PM.

  10. #3355
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    If Indiana is actually looking to sell off and not just re-tool then Masai should be all over TJ McConnell.

    Dragic + Flynn + 1st

    for

    McConnell and Warren.
    Warren is expiring

  11. #3356
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    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    I hear what you are saying, but I think we are stuck at the moment. Getting guys like powell or Turner won't move the needle much, unless you are getting both. But we don't have the assets for that. I wouldn't trade away our draft picks. If the team ends up in 7/8 spot and get bounced in round 1, can't do much. Next 2 years are going to be painful/interesting.
    Fair enough. I get what you guys are saying.

    Like I said I dont really understand the direction then. If were not looking to compete in the post season, and were not positioning ourselves for the draft. Im not really sure what were doing. Confusing to say the least

  12. #3357
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Dosunmu and H. Jones are absolute studs from the second round of this draft. Would love more chances to hit on late picks. Many of them are creating massive boosts for the teams that draft them. No shortage in depth in the NBA draft these days. Need scouting and development, but I believe NBA drafts are collectively better than they've ever been historically. So many prospects have access to coaching and performance departments early in life that they never had before. Raptors have drafted and development better than most NBA teams. Now is the time to leverage those strengths.

    The immediacy bias wants us to take plays we know can produce now, but players like Gordon and Powell for example are what they are and won't get better. Strike the right pick and you get someone who is better in the first 1-2 years than they will be with loads of upside and cheap controllability moving forward. Trusting scouting and development is the key forward IMO.
    I feel like our scouts have tunnel vision about certain players. If they fit a certain mold they hit, if not I feel like they miss a lot.

  13. #3358
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Fair enough. I get what you guys are saying.

    Like I said I dont really understand the direction then. If were not looking to compete in the post season, and were not positioning ourselves for the draft. Im not really sure what were doing. Confusing to say the least
    Yeah, it is not ideal for sure. We are a middling team at this point. May be the trade deadline gives us an idea on the direction of the team?

  14. #3359
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Fair enough. I get what you guys are saying.

    Like I said I dont really understand the direction then. If were not looking to compete in the post season, and were not positioning ourselves for the draft. Im not really sure what were doing. Confusing to say the least
    I'm either guessing based on their actions or taking them for what they said preseason, but this year is all about development. Barnes Achiuwa and Banton seem like the 3 they like a lot. Malachi looks to be outside the organization's plans to me. Haven't seen David Johnson at all. My assumption has been that they don't want to develop players in a losing environment. I also don't think they want their young leaders to develop a losing mindset.

    The way I make sense of the priority is: Development > Draft Position.

    When you consider where the core 3 of Anunoby/Siakam/FVV were drafted and the fact that they won a championship without a single lottery pick on the roster, it makes sense. But when you look at the tank job last year is makes less sense . Masai has said he doesn't want to be stuck in the middle (at least he did when he got the job years back), but that roster he decided to stay with was kind of a "stuck in the middle" roster. He was very patient with that group before the big Kawhi deal.

    Maybe we see a post deadline shift in how the deploy their players and they accept some losses to improve the draft position. I think the danger in looking at the record or how they've played against strong competition is that there opponents are playing far more bench players more minutes. Those rotations we are playing against will shrink when other teams decide to player their own best player 40+ minutes per game in the playoffs. I think the success they've found needs to be tempered with how it was achieved.
    Last edited by pebloemer; 01-25-2022 at 11:19 AM.

  15. #3360
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I feel like our scouts have tunnel vision about certain players. If they fit a certain mold they hit, if not I feel like they miss a lot.
    I feel like they've had more hits than misses. Bruno and Malachi stand out as misses, but as a collective they've done well given their draft positions. It hurts a bit considering how awesome Desmond Bane would look on this roster though. Could have taken him over Malachi. At least Boston also made the blunder of trading that pick away to dump Kanter's deal (and get a couple future 2nds).

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