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  1. #3331
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    I'll stay in the camp that doesn't want to add long term salary or trade first rounders for short term gain. I just don't think we are good enough yet for those decisions to be as impactful as we'd hope they'd be.

  2. #3332
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I'll stay in the camp that doesn't want to add long term salary or trade first rounders for short term gain. I just don't think we are good enough yet for those decisions to be as impactful as we'd hope they'd be.
    I think thereís two windows at play.

    Thereís the window of FVV/Siakam who are 27 years old and in their prime respectively. I think itís fair to say they are the two most important pieces on this team after Barnes.

    Barnes being 20 obviously has a very long window, however whatís the guarantee that he remains a raptor? The pattern Iíve been noticing is most players sign their rookie ext. after that, if the team isnít competitive enough they will leave in free agency. So I think itís safe to say that Barnes will be here for 5-6 season. But beyond that point we donít know if he will stays. (Not saying he wonít, but itís not a forgone conclusion that he stays either). Both Vince and Bosh left or forced a trade after 6 seasons. I think that is a good barometer to work with.

    That 6 years falls right in Siakam & Freddyís window. ✅

    Another thing to consider: No one was expecting Barnes to be THIS NBA ready. Heís ready to contribute now. 14.6, 7.8, 3.4 1 & 1. Add that production to what we already have in Freddy, Siakam, OG and thatís a core that is ready to compete if they have the right supporting cast

    So why not? We have Siakam and Freddy under contract for another two years. Why not align the rest of the roster with that window to to evaluate what we have in this core?

    We can always reset in a few seasons when our all stars are set to become free agents. But until then what are we suppose to do? Tread water? Barnes is already producing and contributing. Why not capitalize on that when Freddy, Siakam, And to a lesser extent OG are playing at a high level?

    The best case scenario was for us to hit on our pick. We did just that. By the same token our core vets are playing at an all star level. Why not capitalize on that when Barnes came out of the gate ready and producing? And with continuity they will only get better.

    We have a nice core, a great coach, a stud rookie ready to contribute. Iím not really sure what the problem is? The future is now.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 01-24-2022 at 06:11 PM.

  3. #3333
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I'll stay in the camp that doesn't want to add long term salary or trade first rounders for short term gain. I just don't think we are good enough yet for those decisions to be as impactful as we'd hope they'd be.
    I agree. I wouldn't make a major move just to make a trade. I think they either need to rebuild their asset base by trading for picks and/or swapping our underwhelming prospects for another team's underwhelming prospect. Or consolidate our mish-mash of expiring assets and ill-fitting pieces into something more solid.

    I feel like being so close to the tax is limiting what they can do rn without making a trade.

  4. #3334
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post

    We have a nice core, a great coach, a stud rookie ready to contribute. Iím not really sure what the problem is? The future is now.
    im not speaking for pebloemer but personally I think

    a) it is unrealistic, given their past reluctance to commit to long term contracts. They will have to do a lot of financial maneuvering very soon.

    b) i don't really believe in this core. IMO, they're not one piece away, they're several pieces away.

    c) We don't have many assets. We had a far larger asset base in 2018, which we consolidated into several major pieces to great success. We will need to develop some players and re-evaluate.

    d) I don't think there are any available pieces that make us noticeably better.

  5. #3335
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    So stay the course and remain in no manís land? Weíre not bad enough to be a lottery team as we have all star caliber players. And weíre not good enough to compete with out a solid supporting cast & depth.

    So weíre gonna be in that 7-8 range? Aka NBA hell?

    I guess Iím having a hard time understanding our direction. Do we want to make the most of Freddy and Siakam while we have them? Or should we trade them to gain as many assets as possible while their value is high?

    Staying in the middle of the pack doesnít help either direction. Shouldnít we be choosing one?!

  6. #3336
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    So stay the course and remain in no manís land? Weíre not bad enough to be a lottery team as we have all star caliber players. And weíre not good enough to compete with out a solid supporting cast & depth.

    So weíre gonna be in that 7-8 range? Aka NBA hell?

    I guess Iím having a hard time understanding our direction. Do we want to make the most of Freddy and Siakam while we have them? Or should we trade them to gain as many assets as possible while their value is high?

    Staying in the middle of the pack doesnít help either direction. Shouldnít we be choosing one?!
    Does trading for Powell or Turner take us out of that 7-8 range? I think they need another year or two to build up their assets. They needed Barnes, Precious/Dragic and Flynn to pan out, if they wanted to make a move this season. Only Barnes pick has worked out for them.
    Last edited by ecart; 01-24-2022 at 06:24 PM.

  7. #3337
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Does trading for Powell or Turner take us out of that 7-8 range?
    Yes. I donít see how it couldnít when weve only been getting production out of Boucher off the bench.

    How many close games have we lost? How many of those games were ones where we got nothing from the 2nd unit. Like youíve said before if our starters arenít perfect we will lose most nights. So yes depth will def help.

    Also Turner would make us a better defensive team, someone from the starting unit would go to the bench so that gives us some depth. Yes I think he would make a difference. Would we be favs? No but we could compete with the top 6 and get out of the play in.

    And if not then thatís ok too, but why not trade some of these guys for draft assets and prospects? Why remain a 8th seeded team? There no benefit to that.

  8. #3338
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I think thereís two windows at play.

    Thereís the window of FVV/Siakam who are 27 years old and in their prime respectively. I think itís fair to say they are the two most important pieces on this team after Barnes.

    Barnes being 20 obviously has a very long window, however whatís the guarantee that he remains a raptor? The pattern Iíve been noticing is most players sign their rookie ext. after that, if the team isnít competitive enough they will leave in free agency. So I think itís safe to say that Barnes will be here for 5-6 season. But beyond that point we donít know if he will stays. (Not saying he wonít, but itís not a forgone conclusion that he stays either). Both Vince and Bosh left or forced a trade after 6 seasons. I think that is a good barometer to work with.

    That 6 years falls right in Siakam & Freddyís window. ✅

    Another thing to consider: No one was expecting Barnes to be THIS NBA ready. Heís ready to contribute now. 14.6, 7.8, 3.4 1 & 1. Add that production to what we already have in Freddy, Siakam, OG and thatís a core that is ready to compete if they have the right supporting cast

    So why not? We have Siakam and Freddy under contract for another two years. Why not align the rest of the roster with that window to to evaluate what we have in this core?

    We can always reset in a few seasons when our all stars are set to become free agents. But until then what are we suppose to do? Tread water? Barnes is already producing and contributing. Why not capitalize on that when Freddy, Siakam, And to a lesser extent OG are playing at a high level?

    The best case scenario was for us to hit on our pick. We did just that. By the same token our core vets are playing at an all star level. Why not capitalize on that when Barnes came out of the gate ready and producing? And with continuity they will only get better.

    We have a nice core, a great coach, a stud rookie ready to contribute. Iím not really sure what the problem is? The future is now.
    The ďwhy notĒ is simple in my mind. You could be trading away our next Anunoby or Siakam but dealing those picks. You lose your ability to be competitive in FA if you are stuck in the tax.

    At 27, FVV and Siakam have a ton of prime basketball ahead of them. Lowry won as the second best player on the team at age 34?

    Barnes is locked in 4 years rookie scale, then he will be an RFA, and eligible for a max extension. That is 8+ Years of control.

    I donít understand how all the old folks (Powell aside) named in this thread for first round picks align with our young core.
    Last edited by pebloemer; 01-24-2022 at 06:26 PM.

  9. #3339
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Yes. I donít see how it couldnít when weve only been getting production out of Boucher off the bench.

    How many close games have we lost? How many of those games were ones where we got nothing from the 2nd unit. Like youíve said before if our starters arenít perfect we will lose most nights. So yes depth will def help.

    Also Turner would make us a better defensive team, someone from the starting unit would go to the bench so that gives us some depth. Yes I think he would make a difference. Would we be favs? No but we could compete with the top 6 and get out of the play in.

    And if not then thatís ok too, but why not trade some of these guys for draft assets and prospects? Why remain a 8th seeded team? There no benefit to that.
    thats what I would want but I don't think Masai/Bobby are gonna do that

    I think they made several mistakes which will prevent us from growing as quickly and it is going to take them some time to catch up again.
    Last edited by ecart; 01-24-2022 at 06:29 PM.

  10. #3340
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    The ďwhy notĒ is simple in my mind. You could be trading away our next Anunoby or Siakam but dealing those picks. You lose your ability to be competitive in FA if you are stuck in the tax.

    At 27, FVV and Siakam have a ton of prime basketball ahead of them. Lowry won as the second best player on the team at age 34?

    Barnes is locked in 4 years rookie scale, then he will be an RFA, and eligible for a max extension. That is 8+ Years of control.

    I donít understand how all the old folks (Powell aside) named in this thread for first round picks align with our young core.
    Lowry is a special case. Not everyone flourishes late in their career. And Lowry has declined since. So if 34 is the barometer weíre using and Freddy & Siakam are 27, that falls directly in line with the 6 year window we are talking about. Why wait until these guys are 33? And whoís to say they sign another contract? Further, whoís to say Barnes stays that long?

  11. #3341
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    thats what I would want but I don't think Masai/Bobby are gonna do that

    I think they made several mistakes which will prevent us from growing as quickly and it is going to take them some time to catch up again.
    Yeah thatís what Iím thinking too. Freddy and Siakams value has to be at its highest they Ďbe been. If weíre not gonna do anything for the next 2 years while theyíre under contract, maybe itís best to cash out and get the most while we can, while also giving our selves a better chance in the draft.

    If youíre gonna keep Ďem then you gotta try to get them some help because playing 6-7 guys is grinding them in to the ground. Itís what Thibs does and it always results in injuries. And honestly you canít hang your hat on what we have outside of 6-7 players. (If that)

    I donít like the idea of being a middle of the back tread mill we all know thatís the worst place to be.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 01-24-2022 at 06:42 PM.

  12. #3342
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Does trading for Powell or Turner take us out of that 7-8 range? I think they need another year or two to build up their assets. They needed Barnes, Precious/Dragic and Flynn to pan out, if they wanted to make a move this season. Only Barnes pick has worked out for them.
    Powell no
    Turner yes.

    Powell gives us more of what we already have, jump shooters. Mind you heís quite the bucket getter. Turner gives us something we donít have, an inside scoring presence and defensive anchor.

    The way this team is built now theyíre going to have to shoot themselves out of any slumps. The only inside scoring we have at the moment is Barnes who is still pretty raw and canít be relied on to grab points in the paint on a nightly basis. With Turner, you could get that.

  13. #3343
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Yeah thatís what Iím thinking too. Freddy and Siakams value has to be at its highest they Ďbe been. If weíre not gonna do anything for the next 2 years while theyíre under contract, maybe itís best to cash out and get the most while we can, while also giving our selves a better chance in the draft.

    If youíre gonna keep Ďem then you gotta try to get them some help because playing 6-7 guys is grinding them in to the ground. Itís what Thibs does and it always results in injuries. And honestly you canít hang your hat on what we have outside of 6-7 players. (If that)

    I donít like the idea of being a middle of the back tread mill we all know thatís the worst place to be.
    I think most deals suggested keep us in the treadmill range anyways. Bledsoe, Ibaka, Powell, etc donít put us in any type of contention against the better Eastern teams IMO.

    Similar to e-cart, I would prefer unloading non-core pieces for picks or other young assets. If they can get an actual core player who is in the competitive window, I would have no issue with dealing picks or taking on salary. Powell isnít that though IMO. I do really love Turner though, but I could understand the argument if someone felt he wasnít a core piece either

  14. #3344
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I think most deals suggested keep us in the treadmill range anyways. Bledsoe, Ibaka, Powell, etc donít put us in any type of contention against the better Eastern teams IMO.

    Similar to e-cart, I would prefer unloading non-core pieces for picks or other young assets. If they can get an actual core player who is in the competitive window, I would have no issue with dealing picks or taking on salary. Powell isnít that though IMO. I do really love Turner though, but I could understand the argument if someone felt he wasnít a core piece either
    Which non core pieces net us picks? Iíd love that lol problem is outside of our core we have straight up 💩

    But youíre probably right, I guess these guys donít move the needle unless you get like 3-4 of them and really have a potent bench but thatís not realistic either.

  15. #3345
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Powell no
    Turner yes.

    Powell gives us more of what we already have, jump shooters. Mind you heís quite the bucket getter. Turner gives us something we donít have, an inside scoring presence and defensive anchor.

    The way this team is built now theyíre going to have to shoot themselves out of any slumps. The only inside scoring we have at the moment is Barnes who is still pretty raw and canít be relied on to grab points in the paint on a nightly basis. With Turner, you could get that.
    He's not really an inside scorer idk.

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