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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds637 View Post
    I'm a Chicago sports fan. Also a realist. The Sox don't spend like top teams. The cost won't be negligible with this team. This will be 15% of their payroll likely in a best case of them spending. The saving grace, he likely won't regress defensively as fast as he will offensively. I just feel you could add a defensive catcher to supplement McCann and use the money elsewhere on players that aren't 31. Maybe on players that will be successful and worth their salary in years 3-4-5 of the rebuild.
    Next year a catcher with less talent will get paid more, and this deal will look like a bargain, count on it. Everybody here knows how the White Sox spend or mostly don't spend their money so save us all the lecture. McCann had a career half-season, it's 50-50 at best he comes anywhere near those stats in 2020. My point - any you are just the latest to prove it is No matter what move _______ (pick your team) makes a certain segment of the fanbase is going to ***** about it.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    Nobody here expects them to be top 5 in payroll. 5th last year was over 170 million. 10th was about 160. Not sure if you realize how high payrolls have gotten recently.

    Even with this move we're in the middle 20s in regards to league spending, with what I'd estimate to have about 30-35 left to spend.

    Plus we have 4+ years until our best players will hit FA, giving us plenty of flexibility the next few years. Eloy and TA are locked in cheap and guys like Gio, Yoan, Robert, Madrigal, Cease will be making very little for the duration of any 4 year contracts we give out


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    You're right on those numbers and I understand what teams are paying players now. I also understand that even if the Sox get to the top 10, Grandal will be 10-15% of their salary.

    I also understand that Grandal is 31 coming off a contract year. Regardless of contract year statistics and how prevalent they are, he is 31. He is going to start his decline either this year or next.

    You're acting like the money doesn't matter because the young guys aren't up yet. It does matter man. Once the arbitration hits, even though they are under control, they still make good money for a mid market team.

    Just to reiterate how big of a deal this is..... It's the largest contract in White Sox history.

    I 100% think it will help them next year. I 100% think it will be a burden in years 2-4 when their window is open.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73 View Post
    Next year a catcher with less talent will get paid more, and this deal will look like a bargain, count on it. Everybody here knows how the White Sox spend or mostly don't spend their money so save us all the lecture. McCann had a career half-season, it's 50-50 at best he comes anywhere near those stats in 2020. My point - any you are just the latest to prove it is No matter what move _______ (pick your team) makes a certain segment of the fanbase is going to ***** about it.
    Next year a catcher will get paid more with less talent. You can easily look at catcher contracts and see likely you will be wrong. Teams don't pay that for catchers. Yadier Molina, one of the best catchers in history and basically the face of the Cards yes for a lot of reasons. Buster Posey was on pace to be one of the best historical catchers ever when he got his money. Russel Martin got his money and everyone thought that was an overpay. Then there's Grandal 8 million over the next guy at age 31.

    There's a reason people don't pay catchers, especially old ones. All those contracts look bad now. Molina is injured all the time, same with Posey. Martin was injured and underperformed.

    Yes, no matter the move someone will be annoyed. That is an awful argument. Argue in facts not feelings.

  4. #19
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    DS637...just curious, are you a cubs or Sox fan? Only asking because I havenít seen you post in this forum before. Not that it matters at all. This contract is only 4 years, it will never be an issue to this teams payroll as most of our guys arenít even approaching arbitration yet and the big contracts are still 4-6 years away

  5. #20
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    You are honestly the only person I have seen in here, or in the baseball industry, that feels Grandal will start declining this year or next and that itís a bad deal....

    Go troll another forum bud

  6. #21
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    Almost all of us wanted to see the Sox sign Grandal and for several reasons which we thrashed out here ...LH bat, power numbers, catching /framing ability, the ability to pinch hit or DH, allowing the Sox to get value in return for a trade of Collins or McCann, and the fact that Grandy can DH in the last year or two of his contract ...if his catching skills deteriorate. I am sure that Kenny and Rick had financial and other considerations (like boosting the talent level during a time window they want to win).
    It's all good men. ...no, it's great.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73 View Post
    Next year a catcher with less talent will get paid more, and this deal will look like a bargain, count on it. Everybody here knows how the White Sox spend or mostly don't spend their money so save us all the lecture. McCann had a career half-season, it's 50-50 at best he comes anywhere near those stats in 2020. My point - any you are just the latest to prove it is No matter what move _______ (pick your team) makes a certain segment of the fanbase is going to ***** about it.
    There will be no catcher next year that averages 18 million..... No one worth half that is up for a deal.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorvath721 View Post
    DS637...just curious, are you a cubs or Sox fan? Only asking because I havenít seen you post in this forum before. Not that it matters at all. This contract is only 4 years, it will never be an issue to this teams payroll as most of our guys arenít even approaching arbitration yet and the big contracts are still 4-6 years away
    I am a Cubs fan first. I am a Sox fan 2nd. One of those rare, I want both to win Chicago fans. I only watch games with Chicago teams. I love the Sox as long as they aren't playing the Cubs. I was really happy that the Sox got Eloy, despite the fact that the Cubs totally blew that trade. That was the only saving grace as a Cubs first fan for me. Still get to watch Eloy.

    I also just understand Reinsdorf as a Bulls fan as well. Payroll won't be what the Cubs is, ever. Grandals value today is the highest it will ever be. Sure, Grandal might not decline this year. But the next 2-3-4 years, he will. You're being ignorant if you don't want to admit a 32-33-34 year old player is going to produce like he did at 30-31.

    You brought up the contract expiring and contracts being far away. I agree, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that the team won't spend like the Cubs or other top spenders. This is significant money for this team. I think they are probably a year away. If I'm right on that, every historically statistic on MLB players says Grandal won't be worth near that money in a year or 2. That's money that a small market operating team can't use to buy relief pitching, or a deadline big money acquisition. I just don't feel like this is money well spent for the long term. I do agree it will help immediately.


    There are a lot of other holes in this team right now. Hopefully, the minors can help fill them. IF not, this money will make it hard unless Jerry opens his pocketbooks.

  9. #24
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    Go back and look at historical payrolls of the whitesox when they have been competitive. Plenty of years in the top 7. Please donít come into this forum and explain how people in here are ignorant about not realizing the flaws of this deal. It is a good deal for the Sox and Grandal.

  10. #25
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  11. #26
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    I havenít posted in a while, but am thrilled with this signing. We are talking about a top 5 free agent, top 2 catcher since 2012 joining the White Sox. Other teams were interested and he already turned down a 4 year deal last year.

    To see what he was saying about the Sox was a breath of fresh air and I am hoping this will influence some other FA (starting pitching and a RF) to hop on as well.

    And it is only a 4 year deal not one of that will tie us up for a decade.

    Amazing defense, switch hitter, consistency for SP. I canít see why anyone would be against this.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmartin80 View Post
    I havenít posted in a while, but am thrilled with this signing. We are talking about a top 5 free agent, top 2 catcher since 2012 joining the White Sox. Other teams were interested and he already turned down a 4 year deal last year.

    To see what he was saying about the Sox was a breath of fresh air and I am hoping this will influence some other FA (starting pitching and a RF) to hop on as well.

    And it is only a 4 year deal not one of that will tie us up for a decade.

    Amazing defense, switch hitter, consistency for SP. I canít see why anyone would be against this.
    Apparently one Cub fan is..........And that means its a great deal for the Sox!!!

  13. #28
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    Hoping this is just the start to the off-season....I hope this deal helps bring in Madison Bumgarner next. I prefer him over Wheeler!

  14. #29
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    https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/catcher/

    FWIW - Grandal sits at #3 right now, a notch above the famous Salvador Perez. Posey is 32, Molina is 37. Grandal will be 35 when is contract expires.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bainsy View Post
    Apparently one Cub fan is..........And that means its a great deal for the Sox!!!
    I hope it works long term. Just because I am a Cubs fan first, doesn't mean I don't like the Sox.

    Think the Cubs screwed up their compete window and are near a point of needing to rebuild. Don't want the same for the Sox. They're my hope for a Chicago team competing for a title in the near future. I think Hahn has been waiting for years and years to finally get his chance to spend and build a team and I believe he is a good executive, while Kenny may be an idiot.

    My main point is that, unless Jerry decides not to be a tightass, this isn't how I would use such a significant portion of payroll.

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