Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





View Poll Results: Who would YOU vote for the Hall of Fame?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Barry Bonds

    9 69.23%
  • Roger Clemens

    8 61.54%
  • Curt Schilling

    8 61.54%
  • Larry Walker

    10 76.92%
  • Derek Jeter

    12 92.31%
  • Scott Rolen

    5 38.46%
  • Manny Ramirez

    7 53.85%
  • Andruw Jones

    4 30.77%
  • Todd Helton

    2 15.38%
  • Gary Sheffield

    1 7.69%
  • Andy Pettitte

    2 15.38%
  • Bobby Abreu

    2 15.38%
  • Sammy Sosa

    1 7.69%
  • Jeff Kent

    3 23.08%
  • Jason Giambi

    0 0%
  • Omar Vizquel

    2 15.38%
  • Cliff Lee

    4 30.77%
  • Rafael Furcal

    1 7.69%
  • Eric Chavez

    1 7.69%
  • Josh Beckett

    1 7.69%
  • Brian Roberts

    0 0%
  • Alfonso Soriano

    0 0%
  • Billy Wagner

    3 23.08%
  • Paul Konerko

    1 7.69%
  • Carlos Pena

    0 0%
  • Chone Figgins

    0 0%
  • Raul Ibanez

    0 0%
  • Brady Penny

    0 0%
  • Adam Dunn

    0 0%
  • JJ Putz

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 79
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    57,088
    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I think the hall is a joke now, but I'll play.

    No roiders or suspected roiders for me. Not because I fully believe that doing roids was why they were great. But because they are cheaters. Having some in there now doesn't mean the cheaters not in, should be put in. The hall has to have at least a little integrity.

    Shilling
    Jeter
    Rolen

    It's tough not to suspect most players when a lot of these guy played right in the wheel house of steroids.
    How do you know Rolen, Jeter, and Schilling didn't use?

    For those that might not realize it, Jeter's best years of his career were in the middle of the steroid era, with the best season of his career coming in 1999, and his career plateaued when steroid testing was implemented.

    That's also the timeline of when a player of his caliber would age, so it's not a sign that he did use. Just it's very odd how people just assume he's innocent.

    The magical line in the sand that so many use for players to determine they used or didn't use is odd, arbitrary, and compares to the Salem Witch Trials, where basically the likable people are presumed innocent, and the unlikable people are considered guilty.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    9,078
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    How do you know Rolen, Jeter, and Schilling didn't use?

    For those that might not realize it, Jeter's best years of his career were in the middle of the steroid era, with the best season of his career coming in 1999, and his career plateaued when steroid testing was implemented.

    That's also the timeline of when a player of his caliber would age, so it's not a sign that he did use. Just it's very odd how people just assume he's innocent.

    The magical line in the sand that so many use for players to determine they used or didn't use is odd, arbitrary, and compares to the Salem Witch Trials, where basically the likable people are presumed innocent, and the unlikable people are considered guilty.
    I'll be honest with you. I think they did use.

    As much as I would love to see the hall get it's credibility back, it's not realistic to just keep everybody out for a 15-20 span. But if I had any say so, I would assume they all did it. Especially the players with gaudy numbers.

    For the record, the three guys I would vote in, have never even been mentioned as far as I know. But I would also bet that they did use. Without a doubt in my mind.

    So, I'm gonna man up and change my vote to none of them.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    9,078
    I think it all started in around 1989. I think Larussa was a big player with them. It started to get big with the Phillies in 93. I think the Astros were biggest users in the mid 90's. It blew up for about 10-12 years, where I would say virtually everybody that was productive was using. Insane tell tail signs to not see it.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    34,172
    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    By that logic, you may as well not vote in anyone whose prime was in the 90's or early 00's.
    I'd vote them all in

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    44,486
    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I actually agree with this theory
    Doesn't surprise me.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Posts
    40,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    150 wRC+ Phillie career with RISP
    including a .325 batting average, so it's not like he just hunted walks there either.

    He had a 32.91 WPA as a Phillie

    Next closest was Rolen with 18.02 during that time frame.

    If Phillies fans thought he didn't hit in the clutch, they were blind and biased for no reason.

    If Abreu reached free agency after his age 29 season (03) today, his free agent contract would be around whatever Rendon is about to sign for.

    A stud player, who would have actually received some MVP votes if 2003 was today.

    Look at his rWAR the 6 years prior to free agency

    98 - 6.4
    99 - 6.1
    00 - 6.2
    01 - 5.2
    02 - 5.8
    03 - 5.4

    02 was his best offensive season, but his worst offensive, thus the appearance of a decline, but he wasn't declining.
    I absolutely loved Abreu. One of my favorites of all time. Fans were just hard on him because of what MTM said. He was lazy and selfish. He refused to bat anywhere but 3rd or 4th in the lineup. He would’ve been a PERFECT lead off or number two.

    I think the Phillies could’ve been a lot better of a team with him lead off. 2000-2003 you had early and prime Rollins, Abreu, Rolen, Burrell, Polanco. Leiberthal was still a good catcher and Glanville was a solid CF. They had a terrific lineup potential. Rolen got his way out, Abreu followed. Their pitching was absolutely brutal.

    Abreu just encapsulated that time of disarray and poor play.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    37,329
    I assume every player in that time frame used steroids. I don't really care though. MLB turned a blind eye to it. Players in the 70s used greenies and whatever else they could to get an edge and make it thru the season.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Phanland
    Posts
    7,177
    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    yea like i stated phillies fans were really hard on this dude.... and i remember most of it was because he refused to run into the wall or run hard down first base... it was a joke
    I HATED that he didn’t play defense hard.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Phanland
    Posts
    7,177
    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I think it all started in around 1989. I think Larussa was a big player with them. It started to get big with the Phillies in 93. I think the Astros were biggest users in the mid 90's. It blew up for about 10-12 years, where I would say virtually everybody that was productive was using. Insane tell tail signs to not see it.
    Lenny Dykstra and his “special vitamins”.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    109,699
    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    I HATED that he didn’t play defense hard.
    i know and i was the same but now watching guys i get it.... he was a damn good defender tbh he just refused to take the smash into the wall maybe 3 times a year... as a kid it was annoying but now man were we dumb.... think about this... abreu would be our best player on our team right now in this era.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    109,699
    as for peds... that will always be the line for some of us... sorry and i know jeffy and others think guys would get into the hall like bonds and guess what i do as well... without roids bonds is still a top guy but he did them... anyone who did them can **** off... no trolling here either... clemens/sosa and so on... its not fair that these guys get in when a guy like Giffey JR gets in and is a lesser player because of roids... jr with roids... who knows.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Phanland
    Posts
    7,177
    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    i know and i was the same but now watching guys i get it.... he was a damn good defender tbh he just refused to take the smash into the wall maybe 3 times a year... as a kid it was annoying but now man were we dumb.... think about this... abreu would be our best player on our team right now in this era.
    Whether or not he was the “best player “ or not, the Phillies immediately did better the moment he was gone; .467 winning percentage with him and .631 without him in 2006.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    57,088
    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    as for peds... that will always be the line for some of us... sorry and i know jeffy and others think guys would get into the hall like bonds and guess what i do as well... without roids bonds is still a top guy but he did them... anyone who did them can **** off... no trolling here either... clemens/sosa and so on... its not fair that these guys get in when a guy like Giffey JR gets in and is a lesser player because of roids... jr with roids... who knows.
    I don't see why anyone would assume Junior didn't take PED's

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    57,088
    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Whether or not he was the “best player “ or not, the Phillies immediately did better the moment he was gone; .467 winning percentage with him and .631 without him in 2006.
    That's not a testament to him.

    Ryan Howard had a .954 OPS before he was traded, and a 1.281 OPS after
    Chase Utley went from a .865 OPS before he was traded, and a .942 OPS after
    Jimmy Rollins went from a .759 OPS, and a .891 OPS after

    The team ERA went from a 4.83 to a 4.36 after he was traded

    They replace Abreu with Dellucci who had a .849 OPS the rest of the year (Abreu for the Yankees had a .926)

    I refuse to believe that Abreu is the reason the team wasn't playing well until after he was traded.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    34,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I don't see why anyone would assume Junior didn't take PED's
    Was going to say the same thing. But he's "likable" so he gets a pass.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •