11/16 & 11/17 NBA Game Thread

[Dade County]

Since you clearly didn't take the time to really respond to my factual, data-based post and just threw out random opinion-based replies with zero evident to support your claims, I'm not going to take the time to respond to every point here, most of which is hot garbage. But I would like to address two things here that you bring up:

Point 1. That the Rockets have a poor offense and that this style of offense can't possibly be successful.

This is just just 100% inaccurate. Here are the Rockets' rankings leaguewide since D'Antoni took over as coach:

16-17: 2d in PPG, 2nd in ORtg
17-18: 2nd in PPG, 1st in ORtg
18-19: 11th in PPG, 2nd in ORtg
19-20: 2nd in PPG, 4th in ORtg

And before you say "but it didn't lead to a championship," let me point out two things that ought to be painfully obvious to you, but you're clearly overlooking:

A: 29 teams every year don't win the championship. If your sole barometer for "Did this offensive system work or not?" is whether or not a team won a title, then 29 teams every year have offensive schemes that don't work. Unless you're a team like the stacked Warriors, success of a season should never be judged solely by if you win a title or not, which brings me to my next point....

B: The Rockets lost the last two years to the freaking Warriors, and they were one Chris Paul hamstring injury away from likely winning the title in 17-18. So, no, I don't feel like those two seasons were failures by any stretch of the imagination.

Point 2. You just don't like Harden's playstyle or the way the Rockets' offense looks.

I bolded that statement in your post, because I ultimately believe every single point you've made in this thread really boils down to this fact. You conveniently overlook Harden's statistical dominance, his abilities, the Rockets' success (regular and postseason) for a convenient narrative that the offensive scheme doesn't work solely because of your own dislike for the guy and the way he plays the game.

But as saddletramp pointed out already, it doesn't sound like you watch a lot of the guy anyway. You clearly haven't watched him much this season, or else you wouldn't be crapping on a guy averaging nearly 40 points per game on a team with the second best record in a stacked Western Conference.

All of your weak, opinion-based takes ultimately boil down to "I just don't like James Harden." And that's fine if you don't like the guy or the way he plays the game. But don't try to pass your takes off as objective fact, when there's clearly nothing objective about it.

I just did some bible studying man... Tooo much. I'll be quick.

I already stated that the Warriors are not in the way anymore, so if the Rockets do not get it done with Harden play style then what?

I picked the Rockets to finish 1st in the West, so I don't know what more you want, in regrades what I think about the team.

Even if Cp3 didn't get hurt, they was never going to beat that cheat team. I don't get caught up in scripted prolong series.

Not really crapping on Harden, he's been doing the same thing for a couple of years; it's just that this season, he has decided to shoot more...etc
That type of play style doesn't work well in the playoffs, because when it's time to actually pass the ball to his teammates, as history has proven, they get COLD. 3-25 (just an example), type of COLD.

If you had a healthy offense all season long, then those games really wouldn't happen all that much when it counts.

Just google what Kobe and other former players have stated on Harden play style. Everyone sees it, we all know it.

He WILL NOT deliver in the big moments against the top teams, in a 7 game series. Remember the Spurs?

Lets see what happens when he goes up against either the Lakers or the Clippers in the 2nd rd. I don't want you to think I am a Rockets hater; I would actually like if Westbrook could get a ring.

All Harden has to do is prove that his style of playing can win it all. Simple.

& now i am going to go watch a scripture debate. Bless

[Chronz]

tbf bro, this aint that Harden no mos. Harden back then wasn't as developed as he is now, I remember articles wanting him to ditch his step back, now its one of the most lethal weapons in the game. His in between game is far better too. Give him some credit, he can still redeem himself this year.

[mightybosstone]

I just did some bible studying man... Tooo much. I'll be quick.

I already stated that the Warriors are not in the way anymore, so if the Rockets do not get it done with Harden play style then what?

Then nothing. They didn't win. The West is still stacked. No Warriors doesn't mean the West is suddenly a cakewalk. If anything, the West might actually be harder now, because instead of one unbeatable stacked team that no one aside Houston was willing to challenge, you have 4-5 stacked teams all duking it out.

Will I be disappointed if the Rockets don't win the championship? Absolutely, and the narrative of Harden as a playoff underperformer has admittedly been deserved. But you need separate Harden underperforming in the playoffs with the idea that this offensive system straight up doesn't work. Is isolation basketball a little more challenging in the postseason? Yes. But I watched the Rockets run their same offense the last two postseasons and just miss shots. Go back and watch the first half of the 0-27 game against the Warriors after Paul got hurt. The Rockets outplayed Golden State and got the looks they wanted, but they couldn't hit the same shots they hit all season long.

The Rockets offense works. Just because they didn't win a series against a great opponent doesn't completely negate it.

I picked the Rockets to finish 1st in the West, so I don't know what more you want, in regrades what I think about the team.

Even if Cp3 didn't get hurt, they was never going to beat that cheat team. I don't get caught up in scripted prolong series.

They were up 3-2 with a Game 7 left at home. Odds are in their favor that they're winning that series. But I'm not going to debate that, because I don't like debating hypotheticals. Let's move on.

Not really crapping on Harden, he's been doing the same thing for a couple of years; it's just that this season, he has decided to shoot more...etc

That type of play style doesn't work well in the playoffs, because when it's time to actually pass the ball to his teammates, as history has proven, they get COLD. 3-25 (just an example), type of COLD.

If you had a healthy offense all season long, then those games really wouldn't happen all that much when it counts.

Where is this assumption that the players are being asked to take different shots in the playoffs than in the regular season coming from? Where is this idea that Rockets players aren't getting any looks coming from? Also, look at the personnel around Harden. The personnel on this team were acquired to take specific shots. You want Eric Gordon to take long 3s, Tucker to sit in the corners and Capela to run the pick and roll to catch lobs. Those guys aren't suddenly being asked to become elite scorers in the playoffs and play different roles than they did in the regular season. They are who they are.

Just google what Kobe and other former players have stated on Harden play style. Everyone sees it, we all know it.

He WILL NOT deliver in the big moments against the top teams, in a 7 game series. Remember the Spurs?

Harden underperforming in a postseason series does not have anything to do with whether or not their offensive system works. Their offense works fine, but it's predicated on Harden hitting shots. When he doesn't hit shots, they're bad. MJ and Kobe were the same way. If your best player plays poorly, you're going to lose games. This isn't rocket science.

Lets see what happens when he goes up against either the Lakers or the Clippers in the 2nd rd. I don't want you to think I am a Rockets hater; I would actually like if Westbrook could get a ring.

All Harden has to do is prove that his style of playing can win it all. Simple.

Did you just totally miss my previous point about this? Winning a championship is not a good barometer of judging an offensive system's competency. A lot of great offensive systems lose the championship every year.

Also, I love how you keep moving around your argument so much to the point where you've completely lost track of your original criticism. What does Harden winning a championship in 5-6 months have ANYTHING to do with him taking too many shots in mid-November in a game in which the Rockets were completely undermanned? You've gone so off topic, you're just grasping at straws at this point.

& now i am going to go watch a scripture debate. Bless

I'm an Atheist, chief. Let's keep this on topic.

[mightybosstone]

Also, I think it's funny that this criticism of Harden continues on a night in which he scored 36 points on only 19 shots, every starter scored in double digits and Westbrook scored only 28 on 26 shots. It's unfortunate Harden chucked up those 19 shots tonight. If only he'd have let Westbrook take more shots, maybe they would have beaten Portland by 34 instead of 24.

[RaincyK]

Lakers displayed a brilliant teamwork against Hawks. LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Danny Green, Kyle Kuzma and Rajon Rondo played exceptionally well and helped Los Angeles out-score Atlanta in the first half, 69-41. Trae Young led Hawks with 31 points, three rebounds, seven assists and two steals.
Sports Lounge