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  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I honestly would be surprised if they were involved in many bench-clearing brawls. As long as the HBPs aren't in the head or neck area, I think they'll take their licks and walk to first base, knowing this was probably always going to be a part of the backlash.

    If guys start throwing at their heads, though, all bets are off. And I'm sure MLB won't tolerate it, either. It will be funny/ironic the first time a pitcher gets suspended for throwing at the head of a player who cheated and faced no punishment. But that's the reality of the situation, and if pitchers don't want to be punished, they won't do it.
    Same. Cheaters usually aren't the confrontational type.

    If head hunting ensues then yes, suspensions should be handed out. There's never an excuse to throw at somebody's head.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #812
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Same. Cheaters usually aren't the confrontational type.

    If head hunting ensues then yes, suspensions should be handed out. There's never an excuse to throw at somebody's head.
    Very true.

  3. #813
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    Lol

  4. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Ah, I gave you to much credit. You WERE just being a snarky POS after all.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Rookie Mistake happens to the best of us.

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Do you have the numbers for the rest of the league?
    https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/sta...pitch-per-game
    Mets lead the league last year with 0.59 batters HBP per game.

    https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/sta...pitch-per-game
    Marlins lead the league last year with 0.55 opponents HBP per game.

  6. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Same. Cheaters usually aren't the confrontational type.

    If head hunting ensues then yes, suspensions should be handed out. There's never an excuse to throw at somebody's head.
    I don't think there's any correlation between those two things really. Not sure how you drew that conclusion.

  7. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I don't think there's any correlation between those two things really. Not sure how you drew that conclusion.
    Cheaters are confrontational?

  8. #818
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    Jan 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Cheaters are confrontational?
    It's not like the Astros could have asked the pitchers which pitch was coming and decided to be underhanded so I'm with the other guy.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Cheaters are confrontational?
    I don't think there's any real connection between whether someone cheats or is or isn't confrontational. Everybody's different. Take Bregman—he's constantly going out of his way to egg on the other team and be confrontational. He seems like the kind of guy who would throw a punch in a bar for the slightest insult. Altuve, on the other hand, seems incredibly soft-spoken, and I'd be surprised if he's ever been in a fistfight in his life.

    I'm not really sure how you can draw a blanket statement out like "Cheaters aren't confrontational," when people's personalities and behaviors vary so wildly. If anything, I would actually think that in society, cheaters would be more likely to be confrontational. Cheating and fighting are two pretty bold, potentially law-breaking actions.


  10. #820
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    I haven't seen people make a huge deal out of this in this thread yet, but I've seen a couple of posts and have certainly seen articles in the media about it. But before anyone gets too far into the "pitchers are throwing at Astros hitters in spring training" discussions, I just wanted to post this: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...pitches-spring

    The media has made a much bigger deal out of this then it should be. Only two of the seven Astros hitters struck by pitches were on the 2017 team, and only three of the pitchers who threw those pitchers even played on MLB squads in 2019. There's nothing to suggest that any of this has been intentional... yet.

    But like the article points out, I don't think it will stay that way for long. Once the regular season starts and maybe even later in spring training when things start feeling more like real games, we might see some questionable pitches thrown. But let's not take every single HBP and assume there's intention behind it.


  11. #821
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    Dusty Baker put out his pre-emptive notice requesting the league protect Astros players from this.
    Good luck with that....tho it also wouldn't totally surprise me if pitchers get warnings after hitting Astro players, even IF there was no intent.

    A few HBPs isn't going to make up for the BS they got away with......
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #822
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    119
    I wanted to write about a couple of things that have scarcely been discussed. I wanted to mention these things because the discussion veered into "will the Astros be as good with or without the cheating" and "will players retaliate by throwing at them". In my opinion, the Astros were not better than the Yankees/Dodgers in 2017. I believe their cheating didn't make a huge difference in terms of season win totals, but it did make a difference in terms of a 7 game series. I recently listened to the R2C2 podcast and CC Sabathia spoke about how he saw Astros personnel in areas of Yankee stadium that no other team visited. Sonny Gray spoke about how the Astros had more video cameras in the opposing dugout and how players would sometimes throw towels over the camera so as to not be spied on. There is so much shady behavior that the Astros have lost credibility and anything they say should be questioned. The "everyone else was doing it" argument is crap. Players spoke about watching video before or after games, but other teams were not watching live feeds and relaying signs in real time. Players are not stupid enough to speak out about this if their teams were doing something similar. Too many players have spoken out. Reports and players alike have mentioned that they've never seen players be this vocal about something. They've also been very vocal about how huge an advantage it is to know whats coming. I'll believe their word over anyone else. It's no shock why tipping pitches is such a problem. When hitters know what's coming, they can do serious damage.

    Now that I've let some of that out (I have more to say based on all the reading, listening, and watching I've done, but I wanted to get to my main point). Whether or not their cheating affected their win totals during the season and post season is not the worst aspect. The worst aspect is the affect their cheating had on others. Players potentially lost a chance at making the show and earning money for their families. Pitchers might have been sent down and their reputations might have been ruined because of a rough outing against hitters who knew what was coming. Their were also pitchers (relievers in particular) who may have had to pitch multiple days/innings in a row because the starters got rocked. Those pitchers could've gotten injured (I don't know for sure because I haven't looked at all the game logs and injury statistics). Pitchers and catchers were so focused on trying to counter the sign stealing (i've read and heard plenty about how players knew something was up) that they focused less on pitching. They were affecting other players' lives in ways that haven't been discussed much in this forum. It would nice if we could all agree that players should have been punished. They're not toddlers. They participated in it and did so with a disgusting bravado that just adds to the awfulness of what they've done. Manfred screwed up by offering them immunity. The players should have been fined, suspended, or some other creative consequence should've been handed out. It sucks that those cheaters have an opportunity to continue playing and possibly continue cheating since there was no accountability for the players.

  13. #823
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Cheaters are confrontational?
    My guess is this experience -- coupled with the positively embarrassing interviews and apologies -- will make them a little more bashful now that they've been revealed as low-lifes, generally.

  14. #824
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    The immunity for honesty part was dumb from the start. Why even offer that? Just do your investigation and announce the findings when it was done.

  15. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    The immunity for honesty part was dumb from the start. Why even offer that? Just do your investigation and announce the findings when it was done.
    My guess is the investigation was too weak without the players to not offer them immunity. If all you have is a couple of emails among the tens of thousands you've read through and Mike Fiers' claims, that's not much of an investigation. You can't really do much with that.

    If they could have nailed the Astros without offering immunity to the players, don't you think they would have done it?


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