Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 21 of 56 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 315 of 829
  1. #301
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    2,307
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I understand stealing signs in the traditional sense is widely accepted. I feel differently but I understand i'm in the minority.

    That said, it doesn't deter from my point. If a ****** team did this, no one would care. I'm not sold that teams, players, are playing it by the book. I'm not trying to be a jerk but I think i've said something like this a good 10 times in this thread already. I've been pretty consistent even if I know its an unpopular opinion.
    Even if 29 teams are doing this (my dodgers would never do such a thing) that doesn't make it OK, just like PED's.

  2. #302
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    36,140
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
    One of them is on the field and the other is not. If you're a player on the field and can pick up on things then its fair game. Once technology is involved then it takes away the human element and changes the game. It's clear your baseball knowledge is not up to snuff to add much to this discussion. It's been pages and you still don't understand sign-stealing in the traditional sense is not cheating, nor illegal.



    Obviously this is a bigger story because its the Astros. If it's the Mets than the story gets less views. That's pretty basic. If it's the Yankees then it gets even more views. Basic stuff.
    I'm not talking about the Mets, Astros, Red Sox, Cubs Dodgers, Yankees in regards to fandom or market size. My point was in regards to how good or bad the on the field results were when these teams cheated. No one is giving a **** about the Tigers or Marlins stealing signs electronically (for example) because those teams aren't any good.

  3. #303
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    36,140
    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    Even if 29 teams are doing this (my dodgers would never do such a thing) that doesn't make it OK, just like PED's.
    Never said it was. Again, I don't know how many times I need to say the Astros deserved a stiffer punishment. Crane wipes his *** with 5 million dollars. Its nothing. Even the draft picks are weak punishment imo.

  4. #304
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    780
    I think it's really telling that teams didn't seem to make a big deal about it while it was happening. If you can clearly hear it it TV broadcasts the players and visiting benches should have been able to easily notice it during the game, so if they weren't constantly complaining to the league office or complaining to the press in press conferences (if the league wasn't doing anything about it) I don't think it was a huge issue to them...And I have to figure that if it wasn't much of an issue to anyone else, it's likely that their team was also breaking rules in some way and didn't want the league looking into things too closely.

  5. #305
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,769
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I'm not talking about the Mets, Astros, Red Sox, Cubs Dodgers, Yankees in regards to fandom or market size. My point was in regards to how good or bad the on the field results were when these teams cheated. No one is giving a **** about the Tigers or Marlins stealing signs electronically (for example) because those teams aren't any good.
    Well, its obviously going to get even more attention when the team won the World Series while cheating! It would still be a big deal no matter who the team was, but its pointless to bring up those hypotheticals and what ifs.

  6. #306
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,769
    Quote Originally Posted by jawjr13 View Post
    I think it's really telling that teams didn't seem to make a big deal about it while it was happening. If you can clearly hear it it TV broadcasts the players and visiting benches should have been able to easily notice it during the game, so if they weren't constantly complaining to the league office or complaining to the press in press conferences (if the league wasn't doing anything about it) I don't think it was a huge issue to them...And I have to figure that if it wasn't much of an issue to anyone else, it's likely that their team was also breaking rules in some way and didn't want the league looking into things too closely.
    There were numerous complaints made about the Astros by other teams. You didn't know this? It's easier to see how obvious it was now in hindsight. It was shocking to find out the system they developed. There's a lot of banging going on during a game, but for whatever reason Farquhar picked up on it at the time and nothing was done. A lot of times with something so elaborate you need a whistleblower which they found with Fiers.

  7. #307
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    36,140
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
    Well, its obviously going to get even more attention when the team won the World Series while cheating! It would still be a big deal no matter who the team was, but its pointless to bring up those hypotheticals and what ifs.
    That wasn't my point. You're not reading correctly. It wouldn't matter if an awful team was doing this because fans would dismiss it as "well that's a last place team anyway". It only gets this much play because the team in question has been successful.

  8. #308
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,950
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    But using your eyes to see a screen is? I see them both as cheating.
    It's like I tell my 5 year old when we play cards. Yes, the polite thing for her big brother to do is look away or pretend not to see her cards but we can't exactly call it cheating if she isn't careful with how she holds them.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 01-16-2020 at 01:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  9. #309
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,950
    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    The difference was the level they were doing it if a runner on second picks up the signs and relays a message to the hitter, that's one thing, change up your signs, but when a team is using high definition camera to track catchers signs and then someone in the dugout relays that information, what are you supposed to do as a catcher.
    Exactly. I would have viewed it as a failure on my part as a catcher if the other team had caught onto our signs. It didnt happen often but when it did I called time and went out to see the pitcher, and we discussed what our new plan was.

    but there is no defense against what the Astros did.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  10. #310
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,950
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I'm not talking about the Mets, Astros, Red Sox, Cubs Dodgers, Yankees in regards to fandom or market size. My point was in regards to how good or bad the on the field results were when these teams cheated. No one is giving a **** about the Tigers or Marlins stealing signs electronically (for example) because those teams aren't any good.
    The counterpoint to that of course is how good would they be without the cheating. Or how good would a good but not great team be with that type of advantage.

    The problem is that it's almost impossible to rule out anything with regards to how far an organization might go when they've already been caught doing THAT. If fairness isnt a consideration for you the possibilities are endless.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #311
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,769
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    That wasn't my point. You're not reading correctly. It wouldn't matter if an awful team was doing this because fans would dismiss it as "well that's a last place team anyway". It only gets this much play because the team in question has been successful.
    I'm reading it correctly. You say you're making a point but you haven't made any point. You're just making assumptions about what fans reactions would be. I'm really not sure what point those assumptions are even supposed to be making. Bottom line is it wasn't the Marlins or the Tigers. It was the Astros, who won the World Series while cheating.

  12. #312
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    36,140
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
    I'm reading it correctly. You say you're making a point but you haven't made any point. You're just making assumptions about what fans reactions would be. I'm really not sure what point those assumptions are even supposed to be making. Bottom line is it wasn't the Marlins or the Tigers. It was the Astros, who won the World Series while cheating.
    Its certainly not something I could say definitively but common sense would dictate that this isn't nearly the deal it has become if it involves a team with ****** results. Its a media circus because two of the last 3 WS champions have been caught cheating to various extents. The Astros having committed the bigger crime.

    But that's not what people want it to be either. Its not strictly about winning while cheating, its fans wanting to believe they won because they cheated. You, I, no one can prove or disprove that but its constantly mentioned.

  13. #313
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    35,072
    I look forward to seeing how badly they get booed on the road all season. It's gonna be really bad imo. And hilarious. I'm sure fans will come up with some clever signs, chants etc. Can't wait.

  14. #314
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    6,025
    LA Times sports columnist says that the WS should be taken away from Houston:

    https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodge...ill-feel-empty

  15. #315
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
    Posts
    21,527
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    It's like I tell my 5 year old when we play cards. Yes, the polite thing for her big brother to do is look away or pretend not to see her cards but we can't exactly call it cheating if she isn't careful with how she holds them.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    But teams go to great lengths to hide their signs. Are you saying that the teams who are trying to cheat should police themselves and cheat in a way thatís fair? You want people to gain an unfair advantage in a way thatís deemed ethical?

Page 21 of 56 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •