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  1. #361
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    57,170
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    The fact that 2 managers willingly vacated their jobs really leads me to believe that there's more to come.
    Player's Union may stop that from ever happening, I think this was it.

  2. #362
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3,373
    Once Beltran starts singing like a canary I can feel more coming from this.


    No Cryin' In Baseball - Please Read and Follow -

    https://nocryininbaseball.blogspot.com/

    https://twitter.com/nocryinbball

  3. #363
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    220
    Another good article about the tentacles of this investigation...

    https://www.prosportsdaily.com/artic...em-609761.html

  4. #364
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    BX, New York
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    6,834
    MLB are definitely hiding more of this report.
    Last edited by DJYankee; 01-17-2020 at 06:48 AM.

  5. #365
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
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    21,386
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Player's Union may stop that from ever happening, I think this was it.
    The internet wonít be resting on this anytime soon. Public opinion holds a lot more weight now than it has in the past.

  6. #366
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Phanland
    Posts
    7,222
    Whoís to say owners didnít know what was going on? If they do, should they be forced to sell?

  7. #367
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Whoís to say owners didnít know what was going on? If they do, should they be forced to sell?
    The extent of the cheating makes it hard to believe that anyone in the organization was unaware. I don't know how involved or hands on the owner in Houston is, but he had close relationship with Luhnow, from what I understand, and whether he witnessed it or not, you know he had to hear chirping about it. My guess is that he would've wanted to know as few details as possible.

    Another thing to add here... I am the CTO for a company with about 450 employees. I know a lot more than I want to know, and I choose to stay away from rumor and innuendo as much as possible. Anything major going on that has an impact on so many members of the staff, I absolutely am aware. Considering the fact that our company doesn't have the added impact of social media and public scrutiny, it is nearly impossible to think that he knew nothing about it.
    Last edited by sonofdad; 01-17-2020 at 08:04 AM.

  8. #368
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    2

    WHy are not players at bats at home removed from their stats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/a...n-report-says/

    You can jump to 2:55 to see Farquar pitching. The Astros banged a trash can whenever a breaking ball would be called for. You can see Farquar call his catcher out at 2:58 when it happened again to change the signs.

    The issue here isn't the players stealing signs by a catcher not showing them. It's that they are using a centerfield camera to do it.
    Wy are not players at bats at home removed from their stats?

  9. #369
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    31,208
    https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/...n-14983667.php

    I'm curious to see how much attention this will get and if any more former or current players will come forward to implicate their current or former teams. The fact that he's claiming this happened in the 80s really makes you think whether this whole supposed trend of technology impacting the integrity of the sport the last 3-5 years is actually bogus. What if teams have been doing this for decades, but we're just now finding out about it in 2020?


  10. #370
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
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    10,496
    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    The extent of the cheating makes it hard to believe that anyone in the organization was unaware. I don't know how involved or hands on the owner in Houston is, but he had close relationship with Luhnow, from what I understand, and whether he witnessed it or not, you know he had to hear chirping about it. My guess is that he would've wanted to know as few details as possible.

    Another thing to add here... I am the CTO for a company with about 450 employees. I know a lot more than I want to know, and I choose to stay away from rumor and innuendo as much as possible. Anything major going on that has an impact on so many members of the staff, I absolutely am aware. Considering the fact that our company doesn't have the added impact of social media and public scrutiny, it is nearly impossible to think that he knew nothing about it.
    whether he knew nothing or knew everything, it's bad either way.....but it's just flat irritating that the owner is getting little more than a hand slap....5mil to a guy worth 2.5bil is 2 tenths of 1 percent...that's only $2,000 even to a millionaire
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  11. #371
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    198
    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/...n-14983667.php

    I'm curious to see how much attention this will get and if any more former or current players will come forward to implicate their current or former teams. The fact that he's claiming this happened in the 80s really makes you think whether this whole supposed trend of technology impacting the integrity of the sport the last 3-5 years is actually bogus. What if teams have been doing this for decades, but we're just now finding out about it in 2020?
    I really do appreciate and empathize with where you're coming from. It must be awful to be seeing this about a team you love and follow closely. I mean that sincerely, no sarcasm. When A-Rod got busted the third time, I wanted him banished for life. I am deeply uncomfortable with his impact on that 09 championship team, knowing the extent to which he was and is a liar and cheater of the highest order, and utterly without shame. I also hate that my kids are in the position where they are forced to root for Chapman, and now German, who is loathsome in my eyes for raising a hand to a woman. It sucks to be put in this position.

    That said, it does seem you are doing everything possible to frame this as a baseball problem when, at least for now, it is an Astros (and Red Sox) problem. I understand why you need to do this. But I think it would help you process the disappointment better if you turned your fire on those who, at least for now, deserve it most, regardless if it's your team or anyone else's.

  12. #372
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    31,208
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeMeNot View Post
    I really do appreciate and empathize with where you're coming from. It must be awful to be seeing this about a team you love and follow closely. I mean that sincerely, no sarcasm. When A-Rod got busted the third time, I wanted him banished for life. I am deeply uncomfortable with his impact on that 09 championship team, knowing the extent to which he was and is a liar and cheater of the highest order, and utterly without shame. I also hate that my kids are in the position where they are forced to root for Chapman, and now German, who is loathsome in my eyes for raising a hand to a woman. It sucks to be put in this position.

    That said, it does seem you are doing everything possible to frame this as a baseball problem when, at least for now, it is an Astros (and Red Sox) problem. I understand why you need to do this. But I think it would help you process the disappointment better if you turned your fire on those who, at least for now, deserve it most, regardless if it's your team or anyone else's.
    I appreciate the empathy, but you can keep your advice to yourself, chief.

    I'm frustrated with everyone, the Astros included. But I'm not going to stand outside Minute Maid Park with a torch and a pitchfork and shout expletives at the best professional sports team in our city's history when they play in an era in which this stuff appears to be pretty rampant. Just because nothing has come out officially confirming anything about the other 28 teams in the league doesn't make them innocent.

    I'll wait to totally pass judgment until I see how the whole thing unfolds over time. If in 10 years it honestly looks like it was just the Astros, maybe I'll feel differently. But I think it's unfair to ridicule one team based on the results of an incredibly narrow investigation, especially when other sources now seem to be coming out to say "Yeah, I saw my team do this, too."

    Think about it as a Yankees fan for a minute... Beltran played with the Yankees for three full seasons from 2014-16 and then came back to the organization in 2018 as a consultant. Do you honestly think he was the ringleader for this system in Houston, but brought NONE of this stuff to the Yankees organization in his time with them? Are you so naive to think the Astros and Red Sox are the only two organizations in all of baseball who are guilty of something and that the Yankees are 100% clean? How could you?

    I guess you can go ahead and play the "ignorance is bliss" and "innocent until proven guilty" cards, but that's not for me.
    Last edited by mightybosstone; 01-17-2020 at 04:26 PM.


  13. #373
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    472
    Well with the Yankees missing the playoffs 2 or 3 times and not winning more than a wc while he was playing for the yanks leads me to believe the sign stealing scheme didnít really start up until he was with Houston . Which leads me to believe Cora was the mastermind and Beltran was the veteran player who implemented it on the younger players . As for Beltran bringing it 2 years ago , itís obvious they had mixed results with it if they did . I mean the Red Sox won the ws with their ďamazingĒ offense that season . Even more proof that Cora was at least one of the masterminds of the Astros cheating the year before .

  14. #374
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Rogers Centre
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    21,386
    Part of the punishment should be that they have to change their team name to the Houston Asterisks for the 2020 season.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  15. #375
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    198
    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I appreciate the empathy, but you can keep your advice to yourself, chief.

    I'm frustrated with everyone, the Astros included. But I'm not going to stand outside Minute Maid Park with a torch and a pitchfork and shout expletives at the best professional sports team in our city's history just because they play in an era in which this stuff appears to be pretty rampant. Just because nothing has come out officially confirming anything about the other 28 teams in the league doesn't make them innocent.

    I'll wait to totally pass judgment until I see how the whole thing unfolds over time. If in 10 years it honestly looks like it was just the Astros, maybe I'll feel differently. But I think it's unfair to ridicule one team based on the results of an incredibly narrow investigation, especially when other sources now seem to be coming out to say "Yeah, I saw my team do this, too."

    Think about it as a Yankees fan for a minute... Beltran played with the Yankees for three full seasons from 2014-16 and then came back to the organization in 2018 as a consultant. Do you honestly think he was the ringleader for this system in Houston, but brought NONE of this stuff to the Yankees organization in his time with them? Are you so naive to think the Astros and Red Sox are the only two organizations in all of baseball who are guilty of something and that the Yankees are 100% clean? How could you?

    I guess you can go ahead and play the "ignorance is bliss" and "innocent until proven guilty" cards, but that's not for me.
    If the Yankees did any of this, I'll be the loudest one with the pitch fork. I raise my kids to believe cheating is for losers, and I don't want them being impacted negatively by their heroes. Any speck of this in the Yankees would have to go.

    Sound good, chief?

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