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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    Everybody did steroids. Every team.

    It looks like one team cheated to win a World Series and then a guy left and brought the cheating to another team that won the World Series a year later. That's what it looks like.

    Not at all comparable to steroids.
    Sounds like an overly simplistic take on the situation.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeMeNot View Post
    Wouldn't renounce it forever. But I would until all those involved in the scheme are removed. That's how you make change. But not compromising values and taking stands.
    How can you be sure everyone involved is removed? Look at the Astros report, and the list of actual names included in the report is pretty freaking short. How can I be sure that ANYONE on the team was or wasn't involved? Should I basically go down the entire roster and wait until every single player from that roster is no longer part of the team? What about the coaches and staff? Pete Putila has been part of Lunhow's staff for a long time—he's likely to be the next GM and he's only 30 years old! What if he's the GM for the next 30 years? Should I not support the team until he's gone?

    After all the steroids scandals, have you been double checking to make sure anyone who possibly could have been involved in that scandal is no longer part of the organization? I kinda doubt it.

    You can look forward to posts about that, should that be true. I also understand how a win-at-all-costs 21st century mentality has a hard time understanding things like values.
    Values are important. But you're watching a sport in which guys get paid millions of dollars to swing a wooden stick at a ball and run around in a circle. And cheating has been a part of the sport since... forever. There was a guy I listened to on sports talk radio this morning who talked about how he was a little league coach of a team that won a title years ago, and he taught his pitchers how to rough up baseballs to throw better breaking pitches.

    You're in love with a sport that has ALWAYS been about finding little ways to get a competitive edge. If the sign-stealing scandal shocks you or you disagree with that previous sentence, then you need to open your eyes.


  3. #393
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I can't tell you how happy I was to see Osuna get dealt. Amazing pitcher but I can't cheer for a guy who slugs women.

    Technically he was never charged. The reason being because his ex was no longer in Canada and never showed up for the court date. She went back to Mexico and had a restraining order put in place instead. Rumours were circulating that police had pictures of her after the attack though.
    Absolutely man. The thrill of winning is less important and less meaningful than upholding values. Always was and always will be. I'd rather lose a championship rooting for a team of non-wife beaters than win one with wife beaters closing out the game.

  4. #394
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    How can you be sure everyone involved is removed? Look at the Astros report, and the list of actual names included in the report is pretty freaking short. How can I be sure that ANYONE on the team was or wasn't involved? Should I basically go down the entire roster and wait until every single player from that roster is no longer part of the team? What about the coaches and staff? Pete Putila has been part of Lunhow's staff for a long time—he's likely to be the next GM and he's only 30 years old! What if he's the GM for the next 30 years? Should I not support the team until he's gone?

    After all the steroids scandals, have you been double checking to make sure anyone who possibly could have been involved in that scandal is no longer part of the organization? I kinda doubt it.


    Values are important. But you're watching a sport in which guys get paid millions of dollars to swing a wooden stick at a ball and run around in a circle. And cheating has been a part of the sport since... forever. There was a guy I listened to on sports talk radio this morning who talked about how he was a little league coach of a team that won a title years ago, and he taught his pitchers how to rough up baseballs to throw better breaking pitches.

    You're in love with a sport that has ALWAYS been about finding little ways to get a competitive edge. If the sign-stealing scandal shocks you or you disagree with that previous sentence, then you need to open your eyes.
    I cant wait until we see the full scope of this scandal and how many people and teams are involved. I hope all of those that are attacking the Astros and RedSox fan base and demanding that they renounce their team will be willing to do so when it comes out that their favorite team or player is also involved. Like Mightybosstone said..... we are in love with a sport that has a long history of "cheating" to try and get a competitive edge. At the end of the day these are professional athletes that are paid to win by any means necessary. Lets try to remember that this is a game.

    Blood, Sweat and Beards!!!!!

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeMeNot View Post
    Absolutely man. The thrill of winning is less important and less meaningful than upholding values. Always was and always will be. I'd rather lose a championship rooting for a team of non-wife beaters than win one with wife beaters closing out the game.
    Well then you might wanna stop cheering for the Yanks?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeMeNot View Post
    Absolutely man. The thrill of winning is less important and less meaningful than upholding values. Always was and always will be. I'd rather lose a championship rooting for a team of non-wife beaters than win one with wife beaters closing out the game.
    I think there is a major difference between a guy that wears some device under his jersey so someone can relay signs to him, and a guy that goes home after the game and beats his wife....... There is zero comparison. If people cant see that then in my opinion your morales and values are just as screwed up as the person that defends that kind of behaviour. One scenario affects the outcome of a game..... the other potential puts someone's life in danger.

    Blood, Sweat and Beards!!!!!

  7. #397
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Well then you might wanna stop cheering for the Yanks?
    I felt nothing when Chapman gave up the homer to Altuve. He deserved it.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    I think there is a major difference between a guy that wears some device under his jersey so someone can relay signs to him, and a guy that goes home after the game and beats his wife....... There is zero comparison. If people cant see that then in my opinion your morales and values are just as screwed up as the person that defends that kind of behaviour. One scenario affects the outcome of a game..... the other potential puts someone's life in danger.
    This. So much this.

    I had a much harder time coming to terms with Osuna on the baseball team and watching him pitch in an Astros uniform and everything involving Taubman's comments a few months back than I've had with the sign-stealing scandal. I would love to see Osuna off the team and don't especially enjoy watching him close games. I don't think guys like he and Chapman should be allowed to play in a sport making millions of dollars after being convicted of committing violent crimes.


  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    It's going to be great when the veil is lifted from everyone's eyes.
    I dont think I have every agreed with a post more in my life! I would be very careful about criticizing the Astros or RedSox at the moment. Anyone who is taking that "holier than thou" outlook on this better be pretty confident that their team is not involved because I would be very surprised if in the next year or so we arent looking back and realizing that this is one of those things are numerous if not all teams are involved with in some sort of way. All it takes is for one member of those Astros and RedSox teams to move to your team (player, coach or front office staff) and you will never be able to be confident that your team is not doing something similar.

    Blood, Sweat and Beards!!!!!

  10. #400
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    This. So much this.

    I had a much harder time coming to terms with Osuna on the baseball team and watching him pitch in an Astros uniform and everything involving Taubman's comments a few months back than I've had with the sign-stealing scandal. I would love to see Osuna off the team and don't especially enjoy watching him close games. I don't think guys like he and Chapman should be allowed to play in a sport making millions of dollars after being convicted of committing violent crimes.
    Actually agree with this completely.

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I appreciate the empathy, but you can keep your advice to yourself, chief.

    I'm frustrated with everyone, the Astros included. But I'm not going to stand outside Minute Maid Park with a torch and a pitchfork and shout expletives at the best professional sports team in our city's history when they play in an era in which this stuff appears to be pretty rampant. Just because nothing has come out officially confirming anything about the other 28 teams in the league doesn't make them innocent.

    I'll wait to totally pass judgment until I see how the whole thing unfolds over time. If in 10 years it honestly looks like it was just the Astros, maybe I'll feel differently. But I think it's unfair to ridicule one team based on the results of an incredibly narrow investigation, especially when other sources now seem to be coming out to say "Yeah, I saw my team do this, too."

    Think about it as a Yankees fan for a minute... Beltran played with the Yankees for three full seasons from 2014-16 and then came back to the organization in 2018 as a consultant. Do you honestly think he was the ringleader for this system in Houston, but brought NONE of this stuff to the Yankees organization in his time with them? Are you so naive to think the Astros and Red Sox are the only two organizations in all of baseball who are guilty of something and that the Yankees are 100% clean? How could you?

    I guess you can go ahead and play the "ignorance is bliss" and "innocent until proven guilty" cards, but that's not for me.
    It seems you are blissfully ignoring most of the facts in the hopes that rumor and theory manifest themselves into a larger issue. The Astros are the story. It may grow to be bigger than that, but it is overwhelmingly piling up against the Astros right now.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    It seems you are blissfully ignoring most of the facts in the hopes that rumor and theory manifest themselves into a larger issue. The Astros are the story. It may grow to be bigger than that, but it is overwhelmingly piling up against the Astros right now.
    This is the point. It may balloon out, and many more teams may be implicated, including many of our favorites. But as of today, this is an Astros/Red Sox story. It's not about some equivalency to other types of cheating or other cheaters. We are today discussing one particular story.

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeMeNot View Post
    I really do appreciate and empathize with where you're coming from. It must be awful to be seeing this about a team you love and follow closely. I mean that sincerely, no sarcasm. When A-Rod got busted the third time, I wanted him banished for life. I am deeply uncomfortable with his impact on that 09 championship team, knowing the extent to which he was and is a liar and cheater of the highest order, and utterly without shame. I also hate that my kids are in the position where they are forced to root for Chapman, and now German, who is loathsome in my eyes for raising a hand to a woman. It sucks to be put in this position.

    That said, it does seem you are doing everything possible to frame this as a baseball problem when, at least for now, it is an Astros (and Red Sox) problem. I understand why you need to do this. But I think it would help you process the disappointment better if you turned your fire on those who, at least for now, deserve it most, regardless if it's your team or anyone else's.
    Lol ********. You know damn well you loved every second of Arod's 2009 postseason just like every other fan did. It's easy to look the other way when it's a player on the team you root for, and that player is helping the team win.

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeMeNot View Post
    Absolutely man. The thrill of winning is less important and less meaningful than upholding values. Always was and always will be. I'd rather lose a championship rooting for a team of non-wife beaters than win one with wife beaters closing out the game.
    Can't wait to watch you be ecstatic when Chapman gets the final out of the 2020 WS.

  15. #405
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    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

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