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  1. #3256
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    his play style and the traditional PF is just a dying breed. There is a lot for guys like him to overcome to really be big positives. We've seen it time and time again with guys like Parker, Randle, and even Bagley who was a MUCH better prospect coming in yet hasn't been much of a factor despite their offensive capabilities.

    I see a lot of bust potential there, maybe he ends up contributing and being effective but he's not what we need. PG's can impact the game much easier these days and we need a PG 100x more than another PF with questionable defense and shot.

    if there's one big I like it's Okongwu but even then I think we gotta take the PG.
    Yeah I mean again I want a guard with our lotto pick. Only guy I might consider outside of a guard is Deni but even heís like 5th or 6th on my board for us with that pick.

  2. #3257
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Yeah I mean again I want a guard with our lotto pick. Only guy I might consider outside of a guard is Deni but even heís like 5th or 6th on my board for us with that pick.
    I agree but I take Deni over Cole. Ball, Hayes, Haliburton should all considered for our top pick. I pass on Toppin all together. If none of those guards are available and Deni is then he is the pick and get a PG with the late first. I have a feeling we will be drafting in the top three. Just a feeling.

  3. #3258
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    OBI is nowhere the talent Blake was, even post injury Blake is a much better passer, rebounder and 3pt shooter.
    Definitely not a better shooter but yeah young blake was a generational talent

  4. #3259
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Ingram netted AD? No he definitely did not lol

    They traded Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, and THREE 1st round picks (including a 4th overall selection). Ingram was just part of a package.

    If Ingram was the player he has shown to be on the Pelicans, they would have been able to give up MUCH less for AD and they would have been able to retain much more of their overall assets.

    Yes I think they definitely would have preferred picking Hield who would have been an amazing fit with LeBron.

    Youíre last point is true, but if said player has translatable skills and the elite production to match, then they will most likely be good.
    Ingram was the centerpiece of a trade for a top 5 player. Lonzo was thought of much worse than Ingram at that point, and Hart was nothing special. The fact that 3 1sts were added to the pot takes nothing away from the fact that Ingram was the main selling point in a trade for a really, really, really good player. And the Kings would rather keep Bogdanovic over Buddy Hield, so what does that tell you?

    But we're off topic at this point. Everyone has basically responded with the same argument as I did regarding Obi. He just shouldn't be a target for us.

  5. #3260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Ingram was the centerpiece of a trade for a top 5 player. Lonzo was thought of much worse than Ingram at that point, and Hart was nothing special. The fact that 3 1sts were added to the pot takes nothing away from the fact that Ingram was the main selling point in a trade for a really, really, really good player. And the Kings would rather keep Bogdanovic over Buddy Hield, so what does that tell you?

    But we're off topic at this point. Everyone has basically responded with the same argument as I did regarding Obi. He just shouldn't be a target for us.
    Ingram may have been the centerpiece, but the point is that sold low on him. His season was decent for a 2nd pick and 3rd year player, but nothing special. Lonzo was one draft class behind and still had solid value, but they sold low on him as well. The 4th pick was probably the most valuable piece of the package honestly.

    If Ingram had this kind of season for the Lakers, they honestly could have just dealt Ingram and maybe a pick for Davis. The Pelicans didnít have any leverage and they would be hard-pressed to get more than a star like Ingram for a guy who isnít going to re-sign.

    The Kings arenít exactly the best run franchise by means, so that doesnít really tell me anything. Buddy needs a change of scenery.

    My point is that Iím not married to drafting a PG with our lottery pick because we can find a good PG later if weíre smart, or even trade up into the low-20s if the opportunity presents itself. So if we picked someone like Toppin, Okongwu, etc with our lottery pick (assuming weíre not Top 5) I would get it because thereís a good chance they are BPA.

  6. #3261
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    Give me RJ Hampton. Deni if weíre lcuky enough to pick top 5 then trade up for RJ
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

  7. #3262
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Ingram may have been the centerpiece, but the point is that sold low on him. His season was decent for a 2nd pick and 3rd year player, but nothing special. Lonzo was one draft class behind and still had solid value, but they sold low on him as well. The 4th pick was probably the most valuable piece of the package honestly.

    If Ingram had this kind of season for the Lakers, they honestly could have just dealt Ingram and maybe a pick for Davis. The Pelicans didnít have any leverage and they would be hard-pressed to get more than a star like Ingram for a guy who isnít going to re-sign.

    The Kings arenít exactly the best run franchise by means, so that doesnít really tell me anything. Buddy needs a change of scenery.

    My point is that Iím not married to drafting a PG with our lottery pick because we can find a good PG later if weíre smart, or even trade up into the low-20s if the opportunity presents itself. So if we picked someone like Toppin, Okongwu, etc with our lottery pick (assuming weíre not Top 5) I would get it because thereís a good chance they are BPA.
    A "good chance they are BPA"? Let's chill with the broad proclamations. There are ton of draft experts that have Hayes, Cole, and Deni above both Toppin and Okongwu.

    Also, most of these draft prospects are really close together, so it would make sense to spend our pick on a good fit rather than just taking whoever we *think* is best regardless of fit with RJ and Mitch. That's how you end up with a prospect who doesn't reach his potential (and stops RJ/Mitch from reaching theirs).

  8. #3263
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    Okongwu is an elite rim protector, with potential to be able to guard 4 positions. he makes more sense than Obi if we went that route because he can play C. in that scenario we'd have to move Mitch for a PG.

  9. #3264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    A "good chance they are BPA"? Let's chill with the broad proclamations. There are ton of draft experts that have Hayes, Cole, and Deni above both Toppin and Okongwu.

    Also, most of these draft prospects are really close together, so it would make sense to spend our pick on a good fit rather than just taking whoever we *think* is best regardless of fit with RJ and Mitch. That's how you end up with a prospect who doesn't reach his potential (and stops RJ/Mitch from reaching theirs).
    Agreed

  10. #3265
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    A "good chance they are BPA"? Let's chill with the broad proclamations. There are ton of draft experts that have Hayes, Cole, and Deni above both Toppin and Okongwu.

    Also, most of these draft prospects are really close together, so it would make sense to spend our pick on a good fit rather than just taking whoever we *think* is best regardless of fit with RJ and Mitch. That's how you end up with a prospect who doesn't reach his potential (and stops RJ/Mitch from reaching theirs).
    Okay well I donít see Cole as BPA. If the Top 5 was: Edwards, LaMelo, Wiseman, Deni, and Hayes, I would have to strongly consider Toppin or Okongwu if weíre drafting in the 6-8 range. Thatís all Iím saying.

  11. #3266
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Okongwu is an elite rim protector, with potential to be able to guard 4 positions. he makes more sense than Obi if we went that route because he can play C. in that scenario we'd have to move Mitch for a PG.
    Yeah I like him a lot. Toppin is way more polished offensively, but Okongwu looks like an elite defender and heís got potential offensively. I think his shot definitely has some potential long term and heís only 19 with a manís body.

    I just donít see the Knicks trading Mitch though which is why the odds of drafting Okongwu are slim to none. Toppin is a much better fit next to Mitch as he brings offense while Mitch brings defense.

  12. #3267
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Yeah I like him a lot. Toppin is way more polished offensively, but Okongwu looks like an elite defender and heís got potential offensively. I think his shot definitely has some potential long term and heís only 19 with a manís body.

    I just donít see the Knicks trading Mitch though which is why the odds of drafting Okongwu are slim to none. Toppin is a much better fit next to Mitch as he brings offense while Mitch brings defense.
    if it was that simple Randle would be a good fit, we need spacing and to get smaller, we've needed it for a long time. the last time we actually played modern ball with 3's and Melo at PF we won 54 games and that's no coincidence. the deeper issue is we have an old school FO and we don't really believe in analytics.

  13. #3268
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    Yea Toppin needs to bring offense and defense. We already have Knox who is lost on defense we do not need another forward with the same issue. Sounds like a way to get a foul prone Mitchell in foul trouble even quicker. We need guys that can defend their man so Mitch can stay on the floor

  14. #3269
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    if it was that simple Randle would be a good fit, we need spacing and to get smaller, we've needed it for a long time. the last time we actually played modern ball with 3's and Melo at PF we won 54 games and that's no coincidence. the deeper issue is we have an old school FO and we don't really believe in analytics.
    Toppin is going to be way better than Randle offensively. Heís dunking machine and he projects to be a much better shooter. Heís also a monster in transition while Randle really isnít.

    Toppin is a good teammate who doesnít look to force offense like Randle does. Iíve underrated Toppinís dribble too actually, I watched him do a behind-the-back with a step-back 3 in the corner. Thatís really impressive shot creation for a man his size.

    Obi is simply a late bloomer with much more upside left. How else would he go from a mid-2nd round/UDFA to a potential Top 5 pick? He was a guard in high school as a junior and you can definitely see those skills, with his passing especially.

    Lastly, I think his defense can definitely improve in the pros. I have a feeling that Dayton didnít want Obi to foul out so they told him not to foul and that might have impacted his defense in a negative way. He only averaged 1.6 fouls a game which seems very low for a big. Heís rumored to have a 7-2 wingspan which helps with his projection as a rim protector, and with his high shoulders (and no neck lol) he definitely has a very good standing reach for his height.

    If Obi can add another 10-15 lbs to maybe his lower half, he could definitely play some center when Mitch is out of the game.

  15. #3270
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    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    Yea Toppin needs to bring offense and defense. We already have Knox who is lost on defense we do not need another forward with the same issue. Sounds like a way to get a foul prone Mitchell in foul trouble even quicker. We need guys that can defend their man so Mitch can stay on the floor
    it's surprisingly hard to find a PF who can shoot AND defend. Gallinairi fits that bill. but we need a PF to at least do ONE of those well. another non defender who can't space the floor is the last thing we need at PF.

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