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  1. #12541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Yeah Hayes reminds me more of a (Drew Holiday) type of point guard that can play either guard position like Haliburton (Brogdon), good but will never be great... Ball (Luka), Cole (Lillard), Kira (Ja), Terry (Trae Young) and maybe even Malachi (Kemba) are all better than Hayes will be.
    Hayes is probably the second best passer in the draft. And already has offensive game. Hayes will likely go before all those players not named Ball, so that would say NBA teams donít agree. And youíre kidding yourself if you think even half those guys wind up near as good as Jrue. Injuries have kept him from being the consistent all-star caliber guy he could have been
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 11-01-2020 at 09:05 AM.

  2. #12542
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Hayes is probably the second best passer in the draft. And already has offensive game. Hayes will likely go before all those players not named Ball, so that would say NBA teams donít agree. And youíre kidding yourself if you think even half those guys wind up near as good as Jrue. Injuries have kept him from being the consistent all-star caliber guy he could have been
    Frank, Fox, DSJ and Ball all went ahead of Donovan Mitchell as well so whether NBA teams agree is irrelevant. They are wrong too often and the Knicks need to get this one right. Hayes looks a step slow to me and a little more size doesn't make up for speed. Knicks already have size with Frank. If the Knicks new FO like Kira's speed the better than Killian's size I'm all in because if you look at the film, Kira is dominating in just about every game. I haven't seen film of Killian doing anything to pass the eye test yet.

  3. #12543
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    A lot of scenarios to consider...the Knicks can trade up to get Ball but if they stand pat to draft Hayes and then find a way to get Kira Lewis Jr does that constitute as a better move?

    In no way do I see Killian Hayes as a point guard. Turns the ball over waaaay too much. He's a shooting guard with play making ability. I do like the fact, he can create his own shot. The Knicks badly need a shooter.

    So let's say the Knicks get their back court of Kira Lewis Jr who can drive like a Mclaren and Hayes who is a high volume scorer alongside RJ Barrett who is a slasher and Kevin Knox who is a jack of all trades....

    Then you have something...but is at least a year or two off.

  4. #12544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Frank, Fox, DSJ and Ball all went ahead of Donovan Mitchell as well so whether NBA teams agree is irrelevant. They are wrong too often and the Knicks need to get this one right. Hayes looks a step slow to me and a little more size doesn't make up for speed. Knicks already have size with Frank. If the Knicks new FO like Kira's speed the better than Killian's size I'm all in because if you look at the film, Kira is dominating in just about every game. I haven't seen film of Killian doing anything to pass the eye test yet.
    I dont know about that but what you have to like about Kira is that he seemed to get better as the yr went on. His last 16 games vs the first 16 number are drastically different. He shows great upside but I'm not sold on his ability to make others better. I would need to see more but he definitely turns it over a lot, more than Randle actually. Thats tough to take from a lead guard.

  5. #12545
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    I'm cool with lewis
    Same. I personally wouldn't take him ahead of some other guys but I won't be upset. He has the skills and playing style to thrive in the NBA. And Thibs has done well for smaller PGs.

  6. #12546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Frank, Fox, DSJ and Ball all went ahead of Donovan Mitchell as well so whether NBA teams agree is irrelevant. They are wrong too often and the Knicks need to get this one right. Hayes looks a step slow to me and a little more size doesn't make up for speed. Knicks already have size with Frank. If the Knicks new FO like Kira's speed the better than Killian's size I'm all in because if you look at the film, Kira is dominating in just about every game. I haven't seen film of Killian doing anything to pass the eye test yet.
    Itís not irrelevant though. Yes, sometimes players go later than are better. But a lot of times better players go first. Go look. If your argument is based on one or 2 guys every year out of 60 that end up being steals, then I donít think thatís good odds. So we have one shot to guess right, we donít have the opportunity of picking 6 to get it right. So whoís it gonna be? And yes, there are great players picked late. But a majority of them are drafted top 5. So while teams get it wrong, thereís a better chance of getting it right

    And Hayes plays nothing like Frank, so I donít see how he has any bearing on anything. Frank has 0% influence on any roster moves we make.

  7. #12547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    A lot of scenarios to consider...the Knicks can trade up to get Ball but if they stand pat to draft Hayes and then find a way to get Kira Lewis Jr does that constitute as a better move?

    In no way do I see Killian Hayes as a point guard. Turns the ball over waaaay too much. He's a shooting guard with play making ability. I do like the fact, he can create his own shot. The Knicks badly need a shooter.

    So let's say the Knicks get their back court of Kira Lewis Jr who can drive like a Mclaren and Hayes who is a high volume scorer alongside RJ Barrett who is a slasher and Kevin Knox who is a jack of all trades....

    Then you have something...but is at least a year or two off.
    No way hayes Is a sg he is ball dominant and he has no long range game hayes is a left handed Shaun Livingston

  8. #12548
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Itís not irrelevant though. Yes, sometimes players go later than are better. But a lot of times better players go first. Go look. If your argument is based on one or 2 guys every year out of 60 that end up being steals, then I donít think thatís good odds. So we have one shot to guess right, we donít have the opportunity of picking 6 to get it right. So whoís it gonna be? And yes, there are great players picked late. But a majority of them are drafted top 5. So while teams get it wrong, thereís a better chance of getting it right

    And Hayes plays nothing like Frank, so I donít see how he has any bearing on anything. Frank has 0% influence on any roster moves we make.
    You missed the point... there are many point guards in this draft that NBA teams like and probably more in the first round than any of the past 10 drafts. Ball, Cole, Kira, Haliburton, Hayes, Maxey, Terry, Flynn, Hampton, Maledon, Riller, Nico, Jones and maybe Cassius Winston go first round. That's almost half of the first round. What's important to the Knicks this draft is choosing the PG who passes the eye test among them because none of them...even Lamelo shooting 25% from 3 separates themselves from the rest statistically. Actually looking at the stats... Cole, Kira and Riller would be the clear best players out of the pg pool but no one thinks that.

    Knicks hired all the top talent scouts and development gurus available so if they think Kira brings something that makes the team better over the other PG's then I'm all for it because Kira definitely passes the eye test!

  9. #12549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    A lot of scenarios to consider...the Knicks can trade up to get Ball but if they stand pat to draft Hayes and then find a way to get Kira Lewis Jr does that constitute as a better move?

    In no way do I see Killian Hayes as a point guard. Turns the ball over waaaay too much. He's a shooting guard with play making ability. I do like the fact, he can create his own shot. The Knicks badly need a shooter.

    So let's say the Knicks get their back court of Kira Lewis Jr who can drive like a Mclaren and Hayes who is a high volume scorer alongside RJ Barrett who is a slasher and Kevin Knox who is a jack of all trades....

    Then you have something...but is at least a year or two off.
    I would prefer a backcourt of Lewis and Cole. Put Cole at SG

  10. #12550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    You missed the point... there are many point guards in this draft that NBA teams like and probably more in the first round than any of the past 10 drafts. Ball, Cole, Kira, Haliburton, Hayes, Maxey, Terry, Flynn, Hampton, Maledon, Riller, Nico, Jones and maybe Cassius Winston go first round. That's almost half of the first round. What's important to the Knicks this draft is choosing the PG who passes the eye test among them because none of them...even Lamelo shooting 25% from 3 separates themselves from the rest statistically. Actually looking at the stats... Cole, Kira and Riller would be the clear best players out of the pg pool but no one thinks that.

    Knicks hired all the top talent scouts and development gurus available so if they think Kira brings something that makes the team better over the other PG's then I'm all for it because Kira definitely passes the eye test!
    Thinking Kira makes the team better when we pick, and thinking heís better than Hayes are 2 different things. Weíll see when we pick, if heís there, do we pass. Itís like us talking up Ball or Edwards. No point, they wonít be there.

    Hayes is mostly predicted to go before 8. While Lewis is anywhere from us, to mid first
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 11-01-2020 at 01:33 PM.

  11. #12551
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    Since most Knicks fans believe what the media tells them the most popular mock draft out has the Knicks drafting Kira Lewis but at #27. Okoro at #8. If Leon Rose can pull that off he would instantly be the best POO the Knicks have had in 20 years

    https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts

  12. #12552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Since most Knicks fans believe what the media tells them the most popular mock draft out has the Knicks drafting Kira Lewis but at #27. Okoro at #8. If Leon Rose can pull that off he would instantly be the best POO the Knicks have had in 20 years

    https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts
    Always with that ďbelieve the mediaĒ BS.

    So right now, give me your big board. Whoís going to be the best out of this draft?

    I have Ball, Deni, Hayes, Hali as the best. Lewis, Nesmith, and Terry in the next tier. But who knows. Obviously everyone gets it wrong some of the time, but typically thereís a reason most agree some guys are just better than the rest. Was it you last year that kept saying not to believe the hype, and RJ should go #1?
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 11-01-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  13. #12553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Yeah Hayes reminds me more of a (Drew Holiday) type of point guard that can play either guard position like Haliburton (Brogdon), good but will never be great... Ball (Luka), Cole (Lillard), Kira (Ja), Terry (Trae Young) and maybe even Malachi (Kemba) are all better than Hayes will be.
    Thatís a bold prediction, weíll see. Thereís zero chance these guys reach those comps you gave them. I guess if all of them hit their absolute ceilings maybe theyíre close to those guys but realistically we should be looking more at who their comp floors are (Terry - Seth Curry, LaMelo - Lonzo etc).

    Hayes reminds me most of Dragic. And Kira is much more Dennis Schroeder than Ja. But even those are ceilings lol. This is not a good draft, we need to temper expectations here imo.

  14. #12554
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    I like Vessel over Okoro because his game is more complete and isn't a project out the gate. The Knicks guys that can shoot now!

    Besides Vassell is an excellent defender and has a high motor and is very energetic. He can create his on offense and will explode in the NBA wide open.

  15. #12555
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Thatís a bold prediction, weíll see. Thereís zero chance these guys reach those comps you gave them. I guess if all of them hit their absolute ceilings maybe theyíre close to those guys but realistically we should be looking more at who their comp floors are (Terry - Seth Curry, LaMelo - Lonzo etc).

    Hayes reminds me most of Dragic. And Kira is much more Dennis Schroeder than Ja. But even those are ceilings lol. This is not a good draft, we need to temper expectations here imo.
    Stop comparing hayes to guys like dlo and dragic lol your setting yourself up for a huge disappointment

    Hayes reminds me of when we drafted frank who supposedly was going to be some great player too

    I remember people saying frank has good form his shot will come around just like theyare saying about hayes
    The comps for frank were crazy also

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