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  1. #12241
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    I just hope ATL drafts Hali, he is a good fit for that team. He wonít have the pressure of having to run an offense, heís gets to play a secondary role.

    The draft ainít bad, itís just doesnít have any clear cut star. This is one of those drafts that you hope someone can become a star, but itís filled with a lot of glue/role guys. For a team like the Knicks while they need a star they also need to build a team first that is sustainable.

    People looking for stars, Iím just hoping for a competitive team even without a star.

    People should just give up on the PG with the 8th pick, shouldnít use a high pick on a PG that will drop. It seems all wings and center are moving up while the PG and SG are dropping. Itís shaking out for positional need, we need another wing player and if they are moving up in the draft thatís who should be taken with the 8th pick than a PG.

    I know we need a PG just not desperate enough to reach for someone who could be had in the middle to bottom of the draft.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  2. #12242
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    He didnít shoot them because he isnít good at it. Similar to Lonzo, itís difficult for him to get into his shot off the dribble. We have a two year sample size as well as the USA U19 team which he was by far the oldest player, considering he was playing with a bunch of HS juniors and Kira Lewis. Heís not good off the dribble and he doesnít get to the basket.

    Iím not sure why youíre fighting this fight. Maybe heíll become good at it one day, but he isnít now. You canít find a single scouting report that says otherwise. Also, 1 FT attempt per game over two years kinda says he canít get to the basket.

    Heís a nice safe player and itís possible he could be one of the best in this class considering the lack of overall upside in this draft, but heís not who youíre trying to make him out to be. Transition and catch and shoot. Thatís his game. Heís also a very good passer. Simply put, heís Lonzo Ball, which I am fine with.
    No one is trying to convince you that Hali is great going to the basket. But his pu up game is better than you think. I said he's good enough at going to the hoop. Btw, Hali took 2 FTs a game last yr and that's equal to how many Devin Vassell takes and you like him. Here's the point. If Hali were great going to the basket also, HE WOULD BE THE NUMBER ONE PICK and we wouldn't have a shot at him.

    Hali is GREAT at everything the Knicks need most. A smart leader, shooter, and facilitator.. There's no ifs ands or butts about it. He is by far the best fit for this rag tag bunch of players running around with their heads cut off. They need a leader and Hali is the best in class when it comes to that.

  3. #12243
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    Iíd also like to point out this idea that we need to go for a high-risk, Star potential guy doesnít really have history backing that up. Scanning back 20 years, looking at guys that went 6-10 in the draft, thereís a small amount of guys that were even borderline-star level. A lot of busts though. Like so bad, they were awful and out of the league. Getting a good starter for years from that pick is far from a bad thing

  4. #12244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    No one is trying to convince you that Hali is great going to the basket. But his pu up game is better than you think. I said he's good enough at going to the hoop. Btw, Hali took 2 FTs a game last yr and that's equal to how many Devin Vassell takes and you like him. Here's the point. If Hali were great going to the basket also, HE WOULD BE THE NUMBER ONE PICK and we wouldn't have a shot at him.

    Hali is GREAT at everything the Knicks need most. A smart leader, shooter, and facilitator.. There's no ifs ands or butts about it. He is by far the best fit for this rag tag bunch of players running around with their heads cut off. They need a leader and Hali is the best in class when it comes to that.
    I really donít think he is a good fit for the Knicks, Iím sorry I just donít see it.

    People want someone who can get to the paint with ease, can create his own shot if needed and also can get in transition fast enough to get easy buckets. I just donít get the need for someone who will be piss poor in the half court game with the ball in his hands just because he can facilitate, Iíll be damned if I have to watch the team slow down to continuously run some half court BS.

    While he has those traits you want I doubt very much he sticks at PG in the NBA, the way he plays he is better off as a 2 guard. He isnít fast, creative(for himself) and crafty enough to be a lead guard in this league. If he does stick at PG it will take him a couple of years to figure it out.

    Itís just facts there have been very few PG that come into the league and can hit the ground running, itís why I donít give **** about drafting a PG with the 8th pick. At this point itís a waste of a pick, I prefer the wing player. At first I was about getting a PG with the 8th pick, now itís just reaching when they can be had in the lower half of the draft.

    We have 4-5 PG staggered between 14-27 and most are dropping, Iím not reaching for a PG first. If the wings are being rated higher then take a wing which we need also.

  5. #12245
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Iíd also like to point out this idea that we need to go for a high-risk, Star potential guy doesnít really have history backing that up. Scanning back 20 years, looking at guys that went 6-10 in the draft, thereís a small amount of guys that were even borderline-star level. A lot of busts though. Like so bad, they were awful and out of the league. Getting a good starter for years from that pick is far from a bad thing
    All the more reason to trade up.

    But with that said, I'd be fine taking guys like Hali, Okoro or Vassell (if jumper isn't broken) at #8, even if their ceilings are somewhat lower than taking a guy like RJ Hampton. I think you know what you're getting from those three, and there still is some upside there to tap.

    I'm all aboard the Maxey train though. I think he provides a good mix of NBA-readiness and high upside for #8.

  6. #12246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    All the more reason to trade up.

    But with that said, I'd be fine taking guys like Hali, Okoro or Vassell (if jumper isn't broken) at #8, even if their ceilings are somewhat lower than taking a guy like RJ Hampton. I think you know what you're getting from those three, and there still is some upside there to tap.

    I'm all aboard the Maxey train though. I think he provides a good mix of NBA-readiness and high upside for #8.
    No disagreements with any of that. We need good players, star or not. Iíd rather a guy whoís likely to be a solid or better player, than a guy whoís possibly a complete bum

    Continuing to use lottery picks on guys that canít even crack our awful rotation sets us back way more than not having a star

    I dont know how sold I am on the star potential of the top 5 this year either. I think Ball has the best chance. I like the odds Deni is a really good player. And I think Hayes is going to be good
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 10-26-2020 at 10:04 AM.

  7. #12247
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    I really donít think he is a good fit for the Knicks, Iím sorry I just donít see it.

    People want someone who can get to the paint with ease, can create his own shot if needed and also can get in transition fast enough to get easy buckets. I just donít get the need for someone who will be piss poor in the half court game with the ball in his hands just because he can facilitate, Iíll be damned if I have to watch the team slow down to continuously run some half court BS.

    While he has those traits you want I doubt very much he sticks at PG in the NBA, the way he plays he is better off as a 2 guard. He isnít fast, creative(for himself) and crafty enough to be a lead guard in this league. If he does stick at PG it will take him a couple of years to figure it out.

    Itís just facts there have been very few PG that come into the league and can hit the ground running, itís why I donít give **** about drafting a PG with the 8th pick. At this point itís a waste of a pick, I prefer the wing player. At first I was about getting a PG with the 8th pick, now itís just reaching when they can be had in the lower half of the draft.

    We have 4-5 PG staggered between 14-27 and most are dropping, Iím not reaching for a PG first. If the wings are being rated higher then take a wing which we need also.

    We have guys like RJ who get in the paint, Randle gets into the paint, Cole and DSjr get into the paint, but what do they do once they get there that will helps the Knicks win? Btw, just about everyone gets in the paint via pick and roll in the NBA and who better to be making team decisions than Hali? He's may not be a star but he's exactly the basketball player the Knicks could use. Btw, shot makers are NEVER piss poor in the half court offense.

  8. #12248
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    Look at Kevin Martin highlights hali imo should play the 2 and he might end up being the best sg in this draft alot of mocks have him as high as 4 so idk where all of this hate is coming from we'd be lucky if he was even still there at 8
    He probably won't be there at 8, he is the perfect fit next to Trae Young in ATL and he does remind me of Kevin Martin or Kerry Kittles who both had similar builds and goofy form on their shots although their shots were effective. Hali is probably a better defender than both, but I'm not drafting him at #8 over Obi, Vassell, Okoro or Kira who all have a higher ceiling.

  9. #12249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    We have guys like RJ who get in the paint, Randle gets into the paint, Cole and DSjr get into the paint, but what do they do once they get there that will helps the Knicks win? Btw, just about everyone gets in the paint via pick and roll in the NBA and who better to be making team decisions than Hali? He's may not be a star but he's exactly the basketball player the Knicks could use. Btw, shot makers are NEVER piss poor in the half court offense.
    I like Hali too, so don't get me wrong.

    It's just interesting that you're so high on Hali when he's basically a rich man's Frank, who you've not been the biggest fan of in the past.

  10. #12250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I like Hali too, so don't get me wrong.

    It's just interesting that you're so high on Hali when he's basically a rich man's Frank, who you've not been the biggest fan of in the past.
    A rich mans Frank is a damn good player. You're so high on Frank, how do you not see the value in a major upgrade? The upgrade in shooting alone is tremendous and valuable for this team, not to mention his unselfishness and facilitation. Im high on Hali being the best fit for the Knicks. I think he could be an all-star one day because he doesn't make many mistakes and as he gets bigger and stronger, I think he'll be that much more lethal in the paint vs smaller guards of which there are plenty these days.

    He's projected to be a solid pro ready player who does things the Knicks need badly. Not a super star, but a steady leader that every building franchise needs. Why do you think they want to drop 90mill and give up assets for CP3?

  11. #12251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    We have guys like RJ who get in the paint, Randle gets into the paint, Cole and DSjr get into the paint, but what do they do once they get there that will helps the Knicks win? Btw, just about everyone gets in the paint via pick and roll in the NBA and who better to be making team decisions than Hali? He's may not be a star but he's exactly the basketball player the Knicks could use. Btw, shot makers are NEVER piss poor in the half court offense.
    I understand your reasoning, but history the last 20 years proves PG taken high is hit or miss, especially when drafting 8th.

    If this was 10-15 years ago I would agree with your need for a dedicated PG, but Iíve watched enough Euro ball and then the olympics and qualifiers to see that anyone can be a playmaker.

    While Randle shouldnít be pushing on break, but if itís your 1-3 positional players grab the board I expect all 3 to be more than qualified to be able to make the correct basketball play. That means being a playmaker, creating for either yourself or others, especially in transition.

    Iím not one about having 1 player control the whole tempo and pace, there are good and bad that go with that. Unless the 1 player is an undeniable star your team is better served with multiple player who can all create and be a playmaker also.

    The ďpiss poorĒ is at the moment his weakness when he reaches the NBA. I donít think without enough distance from the defender he will be able to get good consistent looks or makes. I can be wrong but history has proved those with quirky forms has struggled to a degree at the next level. Unless your Kevin Martin and he was a SG, why I keep saying he would be better served as a secondary playmaker so you can use him to get easy open looks and let him concentrate on shooting more than playing the point. Still say he will be best served going to ATL

  12. #12252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    He probably won't be there at 8, he is the perfect fit next to Trae Young in ATL and he does remind me of Kevin Martin or Kerry Kittles who both had similar builds and goofy form on their shots although their shots were effective. Hali is probably a better defender than both, but I'm not drafting him at #8 over Obi, Vassell, Okoro or Kira who all have a higher ceiling.
    I'd take hali over Vassell but if I take lewis I'd trade back

    My first choice would be to trade back to 14 or 15 and take lewis cole or maxey

  13. #12253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    All the more reason to trade up.

    But with that said, I'd be fine taking guys like Hali, Okoro or Vassell (if jumper isn't broken) at #8, even if their ceilings are somewhat lower than taking a guy like RJ Hampton. I think you know what you're getting from those three, and there still is some upside there to tap.

    I'm all aboard the Maxey train though. I think he provides a good mix of NBA-readiness and high upside for #8.
    I too really like Maxey but why talk about him because we would never pick him at #8 and he definitely wouldn't be there at #27. I'd take Maxey over Hali tho in a trade back and still pick up a good F like Nesmith, Bey or Williams.

    A draft where the Knicks trade back and walk away with Maxey and Nesmith would be a win.

    The realistic scenario is Rose trades Randle and DSJ for CP3. Knicks draft Okoro at 8 and Bane at #27, Cassius Winston at #38

  14. #12254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    A rich mans Frank is a damn good player. You're so high on Frank, how do you not see the value in a major upgrade? The upgrade in shooting alone is tremendous and valuable for this team, not to mention his unselfishness and facilitation. Im high on Hali being the best fit for the Knicks. I think he could be an all-star one day because he doesn't make many mistakes and as he gets bigger and stronger, I think he'll be that much more lethal in the paint vs smaller guards of which there are plenty these days.

    He's projected to be a solid pro ready player who does things the Knicks need badly. Not a super star, but a steady leader that every building franchise needs. Why do you think they want to drop 90mill and give up assets for CP3?
    Because CP3 is a HOF player, Leon Rose and Thibs knows that CP3 will step off in these young guys as if they aren't giving 100% effort on the floor with him, Knicks have more than enough cap to absorb his salary and still have room and the biggest reason the Knicks are getting CP3 is NOBODY ELSE WORTH TALKING ABOUT IS GOING TO THE KNICKS IN FREE AGENCY... very simple

    Also why I feel like the Knicks need Cassius Winston somehow to backup CP3... he is the closest player with a CP3 skill set in this draft. Kid was dynamic at MSU... He will be a steal in this draft.

  15. #12255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    I too really like Maxey but why talk about him because we would never pick him at #8 and he definitely wouldn't be there at #27. I'd take Maxey over Hali tho in a trade back and still pick up a good F like Nesmith, Bey or Williams.

    A draft where the Knicks trade back and walk away with Maxey and Nesmith would be a win.

    The realistic scenario is Rose trades Randle and DSJ for CP3. Knicks draft Okoro at 8 and Bane at #27, Cassius Winston at #38
    We could absolutely take Maxey at #8. And I'd bet on Maxey not being there if we dropped as far as #14.

    This is not the draft to drop back and take your chances that your guy will be there later. Kira could go #10 to the Suns. Maxey could go to the Spurs, Kings or Pelicans.

    You think you know how this draft is going to unfold but you don't. There was a report this morning that Pat Williams is likely going to be off the board before the Knicks pick. No one would've thought that a day ago.

    Get your guy. It's as simple as that. If Maxey or Okoro or Vassell are our guys, then just take them at #8. Don't play games.

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