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  1. #5341
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Just because his first step isnít explosive, doesnít mean heís slow. Thereís varying degrees of this. His first step is average.
    Never said he was slow just pointing out he rarely blows by his guy which is pretty significant for a pg with no shot

    But whatever you have your opinion and I have mine

  2. #5342
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Hayes shot 58% from inside the arc this season. I believe he was in the top percentile finishing around the basket. LaMelo has struggled finishing at the rim and settled for far too many inefficient floaters.

    So Hayes is the better finisher, shooter, and defender while still being a good passer with good (not great) handle himself.

    I can see why people can be higher on LaMelo, but I donít see how heís on another level. He hasnít done enough to warrant that IMO.
    Again, I think you're overselling Hayes, despite me being very high on him. I don't think Hayes is going to be a great finisher at the rim, especially when he struggles so much at getting separation and the difficulty of the shots he takes as a result.

    LaMelo is just so natural with the ball in his hands. He rises up and finishes with either hand. He makes difficult shots at the rim look easy. I can overlook the inefficiency because everything looks so natural with him.

    And you're overstating Hayes' handles. It's really nothing special. Maybe among him, Cole, Hali, and Kira, he mighttt have the best handle, but I'm not even sure that's the case. LaMelo is head and shoulders above him in that regard.

  3. #5343
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Agree to disagree. Hayes is a much more skilled scorer by far. LaMeloís game at this time is one-dimensional unless you highly value grabbing rebounds.
    I'm beyond confused by this post.

  4. #5344
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    Melo is simply the most skilled PG, and has the best size also.

  5. #5345
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Again, I think you're overselling Hayes, despite me being very high on him. I don't think Hayes is going to be a great finisher at the rim, especially when he struggles so much at getting separation and the difficulty of the shots he takes as a result.

    LaMelo is just so natural with the ball in his hands. He rises up and finishes with either hand. He makes difficult shots at the rim look easy. I can overlook the inefficiency because everything looks so natural with him.

    And you're overstating Hayes' handles. It's really nothing special. Maybe among him, Cole, Hali, and Kira, he mighttt have the best handle, but I'm not even sure that's the case. LaMelo is head and shoulders above him in that regard.
    If anything, Hayes is going to draw a lot more fouls in the NBA if thereís going to be bodies around him constantly. Thereís no hand-checking in the NBA and this plays to Hayesís favor as heís an excellent FT shooter. This will increase his overall efficiency right away. Making difficult finishes is more important than looking natural and missing.

    Hayes is definitely a very creative and savvy ball-handler, his right-hand just needs to improve for him to be completely natural in this regard. Iím not worried about him improving that when heís so young and has years to master this. His left hand is pretty elite and he has the more important skills already.

  6. #5346
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I'm beyond confused by this post.
    What is LaMelo great at outside of passing, dribbling, and rebounding? Donít say IQ or feel because that goes into passing.

    Heís not a shooter or scorer and his defense is below average despite his size right now. Hence why he is one-dimensional right now.

  7. #5347
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    If anything, Hayes is going to draw a lot more fouls in the NBA if thereís going to be bodies around him constantly. Thereís no hand-checking in the NBA and this plays to Hayesís favor as heís an excellent FT shooter. This will increase his overall efficiency right away. Making difficult finishes is more important than looking natural and missing.

    Hayes is definitely a very creative and savvy ball-handler, his right-hand just needs to improve for him to be completely natural in this regard. Iím not worried about him improving that when heís so young and has years to master this. His left hand is pretty elite and he has the more important skills already.
    Plenty of right handed guards go right way more often than left too, itís just more noticeable when the player is a leftie. Iím not pressed over that with Hayes at all.

    If he can get close to 36% from 3 in the NBA Hayes will be very very good.

  8. #5348
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Plenty of right handed guards go right way more often than left too, itís just more noticeable when the player is a leftie. Iím not pressed over that with Hayes at all.

    If he can get close to 36% from 3 in the NBA Hayes will be very very good.
    Agreed. And if Hayes gets to 36%, he could be an all-star eventually. I believe the rest of his game is that good. He has the potential to be an efficient 20+ PPG scorer with 7+ APG and versatile good defense.

    I think early on he could be similar to what Dinwiddie was doing in the two years before this season numbers-wise.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 07-15-2020 at 03:23 PM.

  9. #5349
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Unless Deni & Kira bust
    The media has everyone drunk on LaMelo Ball hype but I would say that both Deni and Kira are safer NBA picks than LaMelo who is not consistent with anything he does. His biggest asset is his height at his position which you can't teach. Kira has amazing speed with the ball at 6'3" which you also can't teach and some NBA scouts are comparing Deni to Ben Simmons with a 3 point shot.

    If Deni is anywhere near that comparison Knicks win the draft.

  10. #5350
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    What is LaMelo great at outside of passing, dribbling, and rebounding? Donít say IQ or feel because that goes into passing.

    Heís not a shooter or scorer and his defense is below average despite his size right now. Hence why he is one-dimensional right now.
    The thing is, heís elite at all of those things whereas no one else has an elite skill.

    Also he does project to be a scorer. Iím not sure where you get that heís not a scorer. He averaged 22/9/8 his last 6 games and 17/7/7 overall. That doesnít say heís not a scorer or that heís one dimensional. How efficient heíll be is obviously the big question, but itís the same question for guys like Edwards and Cole as well. Heís not his brother and heís not Haliburton when it comes to scoring the ball. Also, what does that stat line look like in college?

    Besides his shot, the other main question is his defense. Again, itís the same questions about literally all of the top prospects.

    Letís rephrase your question and change the names. What is Edwards great at? What is Hayes great at? What is Lewis great at? What is Toppin great at besides scoring? What is Haliburton great at? What is Deni great at? What is Cole great at?

    Remember great not good. You were at least able to mention some things with LaMelo on your own. Outside of Toppinís scoring, I donít know what youíre going to mention about the others.
    Last edited by smood999; 07-15-2020 at 06:53 PM.

  11. #5351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    The media has everyone drunk on LaMelo Ball hype but I would say that both Deni and Kira are safer NBA picks than LaMelo who is not consistent with anything he does. His biggest asset is his height at his position which you can't teach. Kira has amazing speed with the ball at 6'3" which you also can't teach and some NBA scouts are comparing Deni to Ben Simmons with a 3 point shot.

    If Deni is anywhere near that comparison Knicks win the draft.
    Deni is not Simmons, not even close. Iím not sure where you saw that, but itís probably not a good source of information if thatís the comparison that they put out there.

    Most of us have been on the Deni train and you were criticizing us for it. None of us have forgotten him.

  12. #5352
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  13. #5353
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    Itís just hard for me to see us not going guard with that top pick. Whether itís Ball, Edwards, Hayes, Cole, or Haliburton Iím not sure Iíd pass on any of them for someone else right now, theyíre basically my top 5 for us and at least Cole and Hali should be there at 6 or 7.

    After that group I do like Deni but I just feel like the guards make more sense for us there. Nesmith or Saddiq Bey are ďreachĒ picks I could personally justify early if weíre not sold on Cole or Hali.

  14. #5354
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Itís just hard for me to see us not going guard with that top pick. Whether itís Ball, Edwards, Hayes, Cole, or Haliburton Iím not sure Iíd pass on any of them for someone else right now, theyíre basically my top 5 for us and at least Cole and Hali should be there at 6 or 7.

    After that group I do like Deni but I just feel like the guards make more sense for us there. Nesmith or Saddiq Bey are ďreachĒ picks I could personally justify early if weíre not sold on Cole or Hali.
    Weíll have a better idea in a little over a month.

  15. #5355
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