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  1. #5326
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    you guys are selling me a bit on Hayes, but he's nowhere the attacking PG that Melo is. Melo gets to his spots on the court with far more ease and creativity.

  2. #5327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Yeah my big board is (1) LaMelo, (2) Edwards, (3) Hayes . . . We're on the same page.
    Agree..

    After that gets tough

  3. #5328
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Yup Hayes also may end up a better 3 point shooter than LaMelo overall and I wouldnít be surprised if heís the better defender as well.

    Ultimately Iíd be shocked if he falls past 5 or 6 in this draft and Iím guessing weíll be drafting 7th or 8th most likely so we may not have the chance to pick him anyway, but weíll see how it shakes out.
    Agreed, thatís why I would take Hayes 8th in that Athletic mock draft. That would be a dream scenario after falling that far.

  4. #5329
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    https://www.nbadraft.net/players/killian-hayes/
    Weaknesses: Good, but not an elite athlete Ö Lacks an explosive first step Ö He needs to bulk up his body
    That doesnít mean he has no burst. And they have him listed at 195 lbs, but Iíve seen him listed as high as 215 lbs. I suppose weíll find out at the combine, but Iíve seen him finish through contact many times.

  5. #5330
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    LaMelo does it far more often than Hayes. I've rarely seen a clip where Hayes' defender wasn't on his hip. Even in his highlight reels.

    I'm not ready to concede that Hayes is the better finisher, but he's definitely got the better mid-range game and I'd expect him to be a better three-point shooter than LaMelo early on. Also, Hayes has him beat on defense for sure.

    I'm pretty high on Hayes, but I just think LaMelo is on another level.
    Hayes shot 58% from inside the arc this season. I believe he was in the top percentile finishing around the basket. LaMelo has struggled finishing at the rim and settled for far too many inefficient floaters.

    So Hayes is the better finisher, shooter, and defender while still being a good passer with good (not great) handle himself.

    I can see why people can be higher on LaMelo, but I donít see how heís on another level. He hasnít done enough to warrant that IMO.

  6. #5331
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Thereís no evidence that these flashy, high IQ plays translate to more wins. At the end of the day, LaMeloís game outside of his passing and handles is weak. Heís not a good finisher or shooter. In a league where there are so many solid-good PGs, only becoming a Rubio would be a major let-down. He was a FA who signed for under $20M/per season.

    Iím not suggesting Edwardsís playstyle translates to wins either. But heís shown that heís a much more difficult shot-maker on the college level. His %s are poor because he was really doing way too much and playing in a role that wasnít suited to his abilities. His efficiency when he did drive to the basket was also very good. He can finish on NBA bigs today.

    With Edwards, his struggles on defense is mostly due to effort. But I donít see him as a lazy player, he just has some bad habits that needs to be coached out. He has all the tools to be an excellent defender and he showed plenty of flashes.

    Iím not sure what Edwards has in common with Waiters or Wiggins btw. Waiters was 21 in his first season while Edwards will be 19. Edwards is a physical specimen, something Wiggins never was. Wiggins isnít even a bad player, so if thatís Edwardsís downside, then sign me up.
    I mean his team was definitely better with him on the court than off. What did Edwards do in college to make you think that his game would translate to wins? It just seems like something youíre just putting into the world regarding Ballís game not translating to wins or making others better. He was the best player on a pro team at 18 and also performed like one of the best players overall in that league. Go back and look at other players who skipped college to play overseas and tell me how they performed in comparison.

    Ball and Edwards both had terrible efficiency overall, but the one thing I think most of us can agree on is that Ballís numbers wouldíve been at least slightly better against college competition. Comparing Ballís stats to Edwardsí isnít an apples to apples comparison. Ball wasnít in the best pro league, but it was still better than college.

    Iím going to overstate this purposely just so you get the idea. What does Edwards have in common with Waiters? He basically just did his best Waiters impression this season.

    As far as Wiggins, they are both gifted athletes who can score in bunches, but have the same exact perceived weaknesses (motor and IQ) which have hampered Wiggins throughout his NBA career so far. While at Kansas, Wiggins was a low effort player that didnít seem to have great feel or care all that much. I overstated the Waiters comparison, but this one 100% applies to Edwards so far. You can probably take a scouting report of Wiggins at Kansas and substitute Edwardsí name and itíll be almost identical. The warning signs were there for Wiggins as they currently are for Edwards. It doesnít mean heíll bust. I donít consider Wiggins a bust for that matter. Maybe in comparison to top overall picks, but not as an NBA player.

    Again, I like Edwards but there are certain things you canít just overlook that have proven to be red flags in the past particularly the combination of playing like he doesnít care a lot of times and not seeming to have a great feel overall. Edwards is more gifted but weíre going through something similar with Knox right now. Those issues are much more concerning than shooting and letís not pretend like he was a good shooter either. He was pretty bad.

    Last thing - Ballís strengths completely align with the top young guards today and what makes them special. Morant, Young, and Doncic all play a similar brand in terms of the creativity and playmaking. Morant has the athleticism, Young has the shot, and Ball and Doncic have the size. Heís not Doncic, but you can see similarities in their games as well. They are all cut from a similar cloth.

  7. #5332
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    you guys are selling me a bit on Hayes, but he's nowhere the attacking PG that Melo is. Melo gets to his spots on the court with far more ease and creativity.
    Yeah I believe thatís mostly because Hayes struggles with his right hand. If he can improve that, heís going to be extremely dangerous. LaMelo also played in a weaker league IMO.

    Hayes has great touch (floaters, mid-range, FT%, pullup 3s) he literally just struggled with C&S 3PTs and not having the greatest burst or athleticism. I believe he has enough skill to compensate.

  8. #5333
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Yeah I believe thatís mostly because Hayes struggles with his right hand. If he can improve that, heís going to be extremely dangerous. LaMelo also played in a weaker league IMO.

    Hayes has great touch (floaters, mid-range, FT%, pullup 3s) he literally just struggled with C&S 3PTs and not having the greatest burst or athleticism. I believe he has enough skill to compensate.
    Melo is just much more skilled and athletic and has much better size. I'm ok with Hayes if we feel he's our guy, but Melo is on another tier for sure.

  9. #5334
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    That doesnít mean he has no burst. And they have him listed at 195 lbs, but Iíve seen him listed as high as 215 lbs. I suppose weíll find out at the combine, but Iíve seen him finish through contact many times.
    I mean what else does lack of first step mean

    But let me stop stating fax before I get any more infractions

  10. #5335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    I dont think he's a pg though. Kind of a tweener i think but he's the quickest guy in this draft imo.
    Quick but nowhere near as quick as Kira... Dude might be quicker than Fox.

    I really want him over LaMelo I just know if we have a high enough pick Knicks will want Ball. At this point I'm hoping for Deni so that we will be in position to get Kira by trading up that 2nd pick... 2 for 1... Deni + Kira > Ball + whoever at 27th pick.

  11. #5336
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    Donít confuse my long post about Edwards and Ball as me being anti-Edwards. I would gladly take him on this team. Heís my second choice. That post was just me explaining why I prefer one over the other but I prefer both over everyone.

  12. #5337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Quick but nowhere near as quick as Kira... Dude might be quicker than Fox.

    I really want him over LaMelo I just know if we have a high enough pick Knicks will want Ball. At this point I'm hoping for Deni so that we will be in position to get Kira by trading up that 2nd pick... 2 for 1... Deni + Kira > Ball + whoever at 27th pick.
    Unless Deni & Kira bust

  13. #5338
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Melo is just much more skilled and athletic and has much better size. I'm ok with Hayes if we feel he's our guy, but Melo is on another tier for sure.
    Agree to disagree. Hayes is a much more skilled scorer by far. LaMeloís game at this time is one-dimensional unless you highly value grabbing rebounds.

  14. #5339
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    I mean what else does lack of first step mean

    But let me stop stating fax before I get any more infractions
    Just because his first step isnít explosive, doesnít mean heís slow. Thereís varying degrees of this. His first step is average.

  15. #5340
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Donít confuse my long post about Edwards and Ball as me being anti-Edwards. I would gladly take him on this team. Heís my second choice. That post was just me explaining why I prefer one over the other but I prefer both over everyone.
    Itís a good post and I completely understand why one would prefer LaMelo over Edwards. But unlike others, I donít see a future superstar in LaMelo. I think he could be a good player in the future, but I donít see this special player that you guys see. If we didnít need a PG so badly, I donít think you guys would be as enamored with him.

    Edwards makes the game very difficult for himself. Most of the shots he takes are extremely difficult. But taking these tough shots and handling a ton of responsibility at 18 years old is impressive. Put him at the 2 and heíll have more energy to play better defense.

    Heíll be able to focus on driving to finish more and his shot should continue to improve in time. Heís got a nice shooting stroke and is a pretty good FT shooter for someone whoís built like him. I think he could be a shorter, but better version of Jaylen Brown in the future due to his ability to create shots off the dribble. Heíll be able to dominate with his physicality and creativity eventually.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 07-15-2020 at 02:52 PM.

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