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  1. #5161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Maybe but they may also believe that guys like Ayton and Wiseman have more of a chance to be elite than do their PG counterparts.I think Ayton is going to be a beast and I would've likely taken him over Trae due to Trae being so bad on D.

    I think if we were comparing 2 guys who have equal potential, then an argument for the PG is there but Wiseman seems to have more potential than all of these PG's imo except LaMelo.

    If you had the choice or any PG in the draft not named LaMelo would you take him over Wiseman if you're the Knicks or could trading Mitch or trading Wiseman get you a better PG? I say take Wiseman and trade for the PG you know is the guy as opposed to risking it on the unknown pg.

    BTW, this is what happens when there's no sports. I start thinking of ridic scenarios like Lamelo being gone and Wiseman there when Knicks pick. Likely that they'll both be gone.
    That’s fair. I guess it just comes down to whether or not you think he can become elite.

  2. #5162
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    That’s fair. I guess it just comes down to whether or not you think he can become elite.
    I think Wiseman has a better chance of being elite than does Hayes, Hali, and even Cole although Cole could be a really good scorer and Hali could surprise us. You can't teach what Wiseman brings to the table at 7 1' with athleticism, a mid-range J, and 70% from the line on 9 attempts a game.

  3. #5163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Yes, I like players and yes, i like alfa dogs like Cole, Iggy, and Harper, our new PG. If you were paying attention, we were taking about the impact of a good big vs a mediocre PG. I think Wiseman is going to be a good big whereas I look at Hayes as a guy who'll be in the league a long time and possibly be an average starter but Wiseman looks like he could impact a game much greater... That's my point. Knicks need to stick with "best player available" strategy.
    BPA should be who the Knicks draft no matter the position.

    Most of these kids being drafted are not going to be starters in the league and if you get a starter in the draft you're far better off than drafting based on need and getting a bench piece.

    Knicks are lucky though that there are a few good point guard prospects in this draft.

    Still BPA every time. A player that has a high impact on the game is better than a player with low to little impact on the game.

  4. #5164
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    The problem with drafting Wiseman is once you do it, everyone knows we can’t keep both him and Mitch. So the trade value of both goes down considerably. If we draft Wiseman, you need a trade for Mitch already done and signed for.

    Frankly, I don’t see Wiseman being a better defensive player than Mitch. So it’s really not worth it to me. The fact that Wiseman has a little mid-range jumper he can develop is irrelevant. It’s an inefficient shot, and it doesn’t even provide spacing. If he could hit 3s at a good clip, then that might be worth a discussion. But he doesn’t.

  5. #5165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    The problem with drafting Wiseman is once you do it, everyone knows we can’t keep both him and Mitch. So the trade value of both goes down considerably. If we draft Wiseman, you need a trade for Mitch already done and signed for.

    Frankly, I don’t see Wiseman being a better defensive player than Mitch. So it’s really not worth it to me. The fact that Wiseman has a little mid-range jumper he can develop is irrelevant. It’s an inefficient shot, and it doesn’t even provide spacing. If he could hit 3s at a good clip, then that might be worth a discussion. But he doesn’t.
    agreed, so then it comes down to, will his offense make up for it? and make up for not being able to draft a PG.

    Now it would be interesting if we could get a Lewis, or Nico at #27, there might be a good PG that drops to us, but we wouldn't know that ahead of time.

  6. #5166
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    agreed, so then it comes down to, will his offense make up for it? and make up for not being able to draft a PG.

    Now it would be interesting if we could get a Lewis, or Nico at #27, there might be a good PG that drops to us, but we wouldn't know that ahead of time.
    Mitch is not a good post defender and gets abused down there. You will say " no one plays like that anymore and etc" but drafting a PG" is all about our ability to recognize one. Half of us thought it looked like Frank and the other half thought it looked like DSjr and we were all wrong..lmao

    Why not take the 2 valuable pieces in Wiseman and Mitch, and trade one for that pg we KNOW can do the job as opposed to trying to predict the future again. If a middle of the road PG will do, why use a top 10 pick on one unless you see something elite in one of them. Not being a jerk but do you see one of the PG's becoming elite more than you do Wiseman? He wil immediately become the most athletic big man in the game and im not sure if you've looked at his body but the kid is kinda diesel. LMAO...cant believe we're still talking about this. If Knicks get a top 4 pick, then I guess we can have this convo although I still see Wiseman going top 2 or 3 at worst.

  7. #5167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Mitch is not a good post defender and gets abused down there. You will say " no one plays like that anymore and etc" but drafting a PG" is all about our ability to recognize one. Half of us thought it looked like Frank and the other half thought it looked like DSjr and we were all wrong..lmao

    Why not take the 2 valuable pieces in Wiseman and Mitch, and trade one for that pg we KNOW can do the job as opposed to trying to predict the future again. If a middle of the road PG will do, why use a top 10 pick on one unless you see something elite in one of them. Not being a jerk but do you see one of the PG's becoming elite more than you do Wiseman? He wil immediately become the most athletic big man in the game and im not sure if you've looked at his body but the kid is kinda diesel. LMAO...cant believe we're still talking about this. If Knicks get a top 4 pick, then I guess we can have this convo although I still see Wiseman going top 2 or 3 at worst.
    i will because it's true. Mitch makes a defense overall MUCH better, that's what ultimately matters.

    It may not be as easy as trade one for an established PG. what young, above average PG is out there for that sort of trade?

    A middle of the road, young PG is a HUGE upgrade.

  8. #5168
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    This isn’t that complicated to me. Wiseman overall impact wise likely isn’t an upgrade over Mitch or if he is it’s small. Mitch may end up the best defensive big in the league sooner than later.

    Draft either Ball or Hayes up top, and if you want a big with star potential trade up from 27 to get Poku. That would be a huge draft night for us imo.

  9. #5169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Mitch is not a good post defender and gets abused down there. You will say " no one plays like that anymore and etc" but drafting a PG" is all about our ability to recognize one. Half of us thought it looked like Frank and the other half thought it looked like DSjr and we were all wrong..lmao

    Why not take the 2 valuable pieces in Wiseman and Mitch, and trade one for that pg we KNOW can do the job as opposed to trying to predict the future again. If a middle of the road PG will do, why use a top 10 pick on one unless you see something elite in one of them. Not being a jerk but do you see one of the PG's becoming elite more than you do Wiseman? He wil immediately become the most athletic big man in the game and im not sure if you've looked at his body but the kid is kinda diesel. LMAO...cant believe we're still talking about this. If Knicks get a top 4 pick, then I guess we can have this convo although I still see Wiseman going top 2 or 3 at worst.
    Because no one is trading any of the young, good PGs that we’d be looking for in a trade. Are the Kings trading Wiseman for Fox? Wiseman for Trae? Wiseman for Mitchell? Not a chance.

    If we’re sitting at 4 and Lamelo and Edwards have been taken but Wiseman is on the board, then I’d be fine with trading back with a team who values Wiseman highly. But taking Weisman immediately lowers both his and Mitch’s trade value. And we’re not going to get anything special in a trade post-draft.

  10. #5170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Because no one is trading any of the young, good PGs that we’d be looking for in a trade. Are the Kings trading Wiseman for Fox? Wiseman for Trae? Wiseman for Mitchell? Not a chance.

    If we’re sitting at 4 and Lamelo and Edwards have been taken but Wiseman is on the board, then I’d be fine with trading back with a team who values Wiseman highly. But taking Weisman immediately lowers both his and Mitch’s trade value. And we’re not going to get anything special in a trade post-draft.
    Wiseman to Pels for Lonzo & #13 (Nesmith)... Lonzo’s due for a big contract soon tho and not sure they’d do that but maybe...Or could do Wiseman for Nesmith and some more picks from them.

    Or Wiseman to Charlotte for #8 and Devonte Graham?

    Wish this draft was happening tonight lol

  11. #5171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Because no one is trading any of the young, good PGs that we’d be looking for in a trade. Are the Kings trading Wiseman for Fox? Wiseman for Trae? Wiseman for Mitchell? Not a chance.

    If we’re sitting at 4 and Lamelo and Edwards have been taken but Wiseman is on the board, then I’d be fine with trading back with a team who values Wiseman highly. But taking Weisman immediately lowers both his and Mitch’s trade value. And we’re not going to get anything special in a trade post-draft.
    Yeah, but which of the PG's after Melo in this draft do you see becoming Fox, Trae, or Mitchell? and is having another force in the middle more valuable as a trade piece than having a mediocre PG?

  12. #5172
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Wiseman to Pels for Lonzo & #13 (Nesmith)... Lonzo’s due for a big contract soon tho and not sure they’d do that but maybe...Or could do Wiseman for Nesmith and some more picks from them.

    Or Wiseman to Charlotte for #8 and Devonte Graham?

    Wish this draft was happening tonight lol
    I would be fine with either of those trades. But again, that’s something that would have to go down on draft night. Once those teams make their picks at #8 and #13, they’re going to want to stick with the players they drafted.

    I’m also not sure NO entertains that becuse they already have Hayes.

  13. #5173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I would be fine with either of those trades. But again, that’s something that would have to go down on draft night. Once those teams make their picks at #8 and #13, they’re going to want to stick with the players they drafted.

    I’m also not sure NO entertains that becuse they already have Hayes.
    Yeah New Orleans I doubt trades with us, but who knows. That team is so absurdly stacked with talent and picks it’s unfair haha

  14. #5174
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    I'm hoping Harper can be our Devonte Graham. Good backup plan if Lamelo falls through.

  15. #5175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Maybe but they may also believe that guys like Ayton and Wiseman have more of a chance to be elite than do their PG counterparts. I think Ayton is going to be a beast and I would've likely taken him over Trae due to Trae being so bad on D.

    I think if we were comparing 2 guys who have equal potential, then an argument for the PG is there but Wiseman seems to have more potential than all of these PG's imo except LaMelo.

    If you had the choice or any PG in the draft not named LaMelo would you take him over Wiseman if you're the Knicks or could trading Mitch or trading Wiseman get you a better PG? I say take Wiseman and trade for the PG you know is the guy as opposed to risking it on the unknown pg.

    BTW, this is what happens when there's no sports. I start thinking of ridic scenarios like Lamelo being gone and Wiseman there when Knicks pick. Likely that they'll both be gone.
    Ayton doesn’t jump out to me at all. Not huge on wiseman either he’s good don’t see him as a star
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