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  1. #1831
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    May 2009
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    The Knicks first order of duty is completing the tank... they cannot continue to be a pick or two away from generational talent... they must finish with the worst record possible while playing the young players... Randle and co. Should get no more than 20 mins a game with limited 4th quarter minutes

  2. #1832
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    Dec 2014
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    Yeah I mean if they do tank and decide to lose the rest of their games then they end up with 60 plus losses again but either way it is a step in the right direction depending on how the Lottery goes

  3. #1833
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    Dec 2008
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    11,081
    That isnít happening. Seems thereís some opinion winning some games makes sense.

    I donít see why, as probably half this roster wonít be here next season.

  4. #1834
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    Dec 2014
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    Which is why it makes more sense or it behooves you to lose the rest of your games this season to guarantee yourself the most ping pong balls in the lottery to give you the best chance at the #1 pick

  5. #1835
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    Jul 2009
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    Why would we tank? We have to focus on developing Randle and securing Gibson as our big of the future

  6. #1836
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    Feb 2010
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    13,512
    Right now, the odds have the Knicks picking 7 or 8.

    Cole and the rest of the top names will probably be gone by then.

  7. #1837
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett2010 View Post
    Right now, the odds have the Knicks picking 7 or 8.

    Cole and the rest of the top names will probably be gone by then.
    Might as well keep winning games, guarantee a nice pick between 8 and 10

    Team canít even lose right

  8. #1838
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Might as well keep winning games, guarantee a nice pick between 8 and 10

    Team canít even lose right
    Payton is the best PG on the team and that's all that matters.

  9. #1839
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    Jul 2008
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    NJ
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    Eh...itíll be another year of fans saying it doesnít matter and that a good player can be found anywhere, while at the same time hoping for free agents that other teams drafted themselves.

    Also, those that point to last yearís lottery as a reason why it doesnít matter donít understand probability. Even in the old system, the 9th and even 11th worst team won it or moved up on occasion. There was a less than 1% chance of it playing out the way it did last year.
    Last edited by smood999; 03-10-2020 at 01:18 PM.

  10. #1840
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    Jun 2008
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    Queenz
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Eh...itíll be another year of fans saying it doesnít matter and that a good player can be found anywhere, while at the same time hoping for free agents that other teams drafted themselves.

    Also, those that point to last yearís lottery as a reason why it doesnít matter donít understand probability. Even in the old system, the 9th and even 11th worst team won it or moved up on occasion. There was a less than 1% chance of it playing out the way it did last year.
    We're exactly 1 game away from the 2nd worst record in the league with 18 games still left.

    What's the practical suggestion, that's what I never get out of these conversations. Rose needs to fire Mike Miller and instruct the interim to bench Ellington, Taj & Portis. That's the only way it works. And that might not be the easiest thing to do optics wise. Beyond that Mike will continue to try to win, as he should.

    Although he does have to make a decision on Payton so I think he continues to play and start, but maybe Randle can be given an injury.

  11. #1841
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Payton is the best PG on the team and that's all that matters.
    I think you're better off having Frank's minute's be where they are. Otherwise you'll have to contend with the fact that he's strictly average even over more minutes. Delay that scenario till we have our next coach and squad figured out. My early money is on his roster spot being pretty safe.

    I can stomach the Dennis argument more if the goal is strictly to up his trade value. But in one man's humble opinion, that is a lost cause. No GMs will be impressed with anything he does over 20 garbage games, when it's pretty clear what he's done for the last 200. If we had an option on him, I'd 100% decline it. He'd be a vet min signing for someone and maybe that humbles him enough to try.

    The gleague people i don't care about. Think Iggy will be here next year, and probably some to end the season.
    Last edited by Shawn2timer; 03-10-2020 at 01:54 PM.

  12. #1842
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn2timer View Post
    We're exactly 1 game away from the 2nd worst record in the league with 18 games still left.

    What's the practical suggestion, that's what I never get out of these conversations. Rose needs to fire Mike Miller and instruct the interim to bench Ellington, Taj & Portis. That's the only way it works. And that might not be the easiest thing to do optics wise. Beyond that Mike will continue to try to win, as he should.

    Although he does have to make a decision on Payton so I think he continues to play and start, but maybe Randle can be given an injury.
    DET bought out Reggie Jackson & Morris, traded Dre, and have Rose, Kennard, & Blake all injured and not coming back.

    is it really crazy to just buy out Payton and another vet like Ellington? Or release them? and bench Taj or Portis?

    what are we gaining long term from playing these guys so many minutes? no other horrible team is out there playing guys like Payton, Randle, ellington and Portis over the young guys... it's always just us, and fans always excuse it.

    yes Rose can simply instruct Miller to let the youngins play.

  13. #1843
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    DET bought out Reggie Jackson & Morris, traded Dre, and have Rose, Kennard, & Blake all injured and not coming back.

    is it really crazy to just buy out Payton and another vet like Ellington? Or release them? and bench Taj or Portis?

    what are we gaining long term from playing these guys so many minutes? no other horrible team is out there playing guys like Payton, Randle, ellington and Portis over the young guys... it's always just us, and fans always excuse it.

    yes Rose can simply instruct Miller to let the youngins play.
    Come on you ignored the point, I asked for the practical solution. You are stuck in debating abstracts. See Mike Budenholzer. Was fired after ignoring those instructions. Mike has 0 incentive to tank unless given an extension, he's auditioning for a new job, and Leon doesn't have enough clout yet. So either he has to be very convincing or he has to Fire Mike. This is another reason why the Fizdale firing as usual was poorly timed.

    PS: I also just said those are the things they should do. Bench Ellington Portis & Taj. Randle should get an injury. But I don't know what Leon is thinking. Maybe he's still deciding on how hard he wants to try to trade Randle this summer. And I'm assuming he cares way more about that then getting a look at Peters or the other junk you brought up
    Last edited by Shawn2timer; 03-10-2020 at 02:09 PM.

  14. #1844
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    Jun 2007
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    1,506
    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Eh...itíll be another year of fans saying it doesnít matter and that a good player can be found anywhere, while at the same time hoping for free agents that other teams drafted themselves.

    Also, those that point to last yearís lottery as a reason why it doesnít matter donít understand probability. Even in the old system, the 9th and even 11th worst team won it or moved up on occasion. There was a less than 1% chance of it playing out the way it did last year.
    As far as I can tell the #s tell a different story:

    1. 55.9% of All Stars drafted between 2010-2019 were taken after the 8th pick!!
    2. If you remove 2018 (because it is still too early for those guys) then the # jumps to 59%

    3. Finally only 2 out of 34 All Stars in the last 10 years were drafted in positions 4-8!!!

    In comparison, between 2010 & 2019 ONLY 50% of #1 picks were All Stars (33% of #2 picks and 50% of #3 picks). If you remove data from 2018/2019 (because its early and Zion was injured) then it becomes only 62.5% (37.5% for 2nd pick and 40% for 3rd pick)

    Another bit of perspective is that the #9 pick has faired just as well as the #2 pick in that span and leaps and bounds better than the #4 pick (1 All Star from 9).

    Here are the players:

    9) Gordon Hayward
    10) Paul Gorge
    9) Kemba Walker
    11) Klay Thompson
    15) Kawhi Leonard
    16) Nikola Vucevic
    30) Jimmy Butler
    60) Isaiah Thomas
    9) Andre Drummond
    35) Draymond Green
    39) Khris Middleton
    15) Giannis Antetokounpo
    27) Rudy Gobert
    41) Nikola Jokic
    13) Devin Booker
    11) Domantis Sabonis
    27) Pascal Siakam
    13) Donovan Mitchell
    14) Bam Adebayo

    So the moral of the story is draft well, develop well and you can do very well regardless of your draft position. You might even end up w/a Greek Freak type player! If you aren't drafting 1,2,3 then forget tanking period. Because drafting at 9, 11, 15 can be just as fruitful depending on your scouting and who is available.
    Last edited by oballers; 03-10-2020 at 02:14 PM.

  15. #1845
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    Jun 2008
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    4,285
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn2timer View Post
    We're exactly 1 game away from the 2nd worst record in the league with 18 games still left.

    What's the practical suggestion, that's what I never get out of these conversations. Rose needs to fire Mike Miller and instruct the interim to bench Ellington, Taj & Portis. That's the only way it works. And that might not be the easiest thing to do optics wise. Beyond that Mike will continue to try to win, as he should.

    Although he does have to make a decision on Payton so I think he continues to play and start, but maybe Randle can be given an injury.
    I said this pages and pages ago: Mike Millerís interests and the franchiseís long term interests are not aligned. Thatís why the FO should have stepped in long ago and dictated the approach (i.e., playing the young guys, tanking, whatever you want to call it).

    The fact is you can live with the wins if itís the young guys playing major minutes and leading us. If weíre winning with Ellington, Bullock, Taj, and to a lesser extent, Payton, Randle, and Portis leading the way, and that ultimately costs us a chance to draft Lamelo or Edwards, thatís unacceptable.

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