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  1. #4726
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    No, they arenít. The majority of them donít make the NBA and itís not like he was playing in the toughest conference. The G-BBL is not a scrub league at all. Iíd argue the defense is tougher than NCAA because of the difference in style of play. The spacing in the NBA will help Hayes for sure.

    D-Lo is a good shooter, but heís not some great 3PT shooter. Heís been a hair above league average from 3 on high volume the last two seasons, but heís not that efficient of a scorer because he hardly ever gets to the rim and takes a lot of pull-up mid range Js.

    Thatís why people compare Hayes to D-Lo because they are both crafty lefties with similar games. Hayes IMO is a better finisher/playmaker than D-Lo coming out while D-Lo was the better 3PT shooter/scorer.

    Hayes wouldnít be the first player to shoot 3s better as a pro than he did as an amateur. If you want to ignore all the indicators of him being a guy who can shoot 3s eventually then by all means.
    Hayes will also be a much much better defender than D Lo, you can take that to the bank.

    Weíll be fortunate if heís there for us at 6. Hopefully we win a top 4 spot but regardless Iíd be very happy if Hayes is who we end up with as our first pick.

  2. 06-25-2020, 10:49 AM
    Reason
    Disruptive

  3. 06-25-2020, 10:50 AM
    Reason
    Disruptive

  4. 06-25-2020, 12:04 PM
    Reason
    Seriously?

  5. #4727
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    Leon Rose isn't letting Ball get out of his grasp. He has close relationships with the Ball family he even had them signed tonCAA for a short period.

    Clearly he not afraid of the distraction part Lavar brings. I see Rose making LaMelo his 1st piece as a generation type player and will do whatever it takes to get him with his plethora of picks in his basket. Ball will open up the games of both RJ and Mitvh emensly regardless of the fact he's not the best shooter compared to other PG's in the 2020 draft.

  6. #4728
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    If by some wierd miracle the Knicks miss out on Ball I see Obi or Deni being the pick and will instead trade for a PG in come CP3.

  7. #4729
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    I would take Poku over Obi. Actually have a gut feeling Poku should go over most of this class but he wonít.

    Wonít be surprised in a redraft a few years down the line if heís a top 5 player from this class.

  8. #4730
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    Leon Rose will do whatever it takes to get Lonzo Ball. That's his guy. I hope he gets him, via draft or trade/swap.

  9. #4731
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  10. #4732
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  11. #4733
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    Wednesday, June 24, 2020
    2020 NBA draft projections: Ranking the top 30 prospects
    By Kevin Pelton
    ESPN Insider

    How many top prospects are there in the 2020 NBA draft?

    This was an unusual year even before the NCAA tournament and many conference tournaments were canceled because of the coronavirus pandemic because there was so little consensus about the top prospects, so few of whom played college basketball.

    That bears out statistically too. Historically, the best prospects have been those who rate in the top 10 of my stats-only projections and go among the top 10 picks. Typically, there's an average of about three such players from the college ranks, but this year only one NCAA player among ESPN's Jonathan Givony's top 10 prospects is also in my stats-only top 10: Iowa State guard Tyrese Haliburton.

    How much does an unusually strong crop of prospects playing overseas, including LaMelo Ball, help fill the void?

    Let's take a first look at my draft projections that combine statistics and scouting projections, including where players rank in Givony's top 100.

    My statistical projections start by translating NCAA or international performance to projected NBA rookie performance, also factoring in regression to the mean for outlier performance. I then calculate projected value over the player's first five NBA seasons by combining rookie projections with age. To that stats-only version, I also add each player's top-100 ranking to build the more accurate consensus projections.

    One note on this year's projections: While my projections have utilized translated performance in the Nike EYBL thanks to statistics compiled by Neil Johnson of ESPN Stats & Information, issues with the data collection during the 2018 EYBL meant they were no longer predictive of college performance as in past years. So I have not included EYBL stats from that year, when the bulk of this year's one-and-done prospects played AAU, though projections for players who participated in the 2017 EYBL (like James Wiseman) still incorporate that data.

    For more details and past projections, check out a more detailed explanation. Otherwise, let's get to my top 30.

    1. LaMelo Ball

    Illawarra Hawks
    PG
    Top 100: No. 2
    Stats: No. 1


    Consensus: 4.8 WARP

    In a draft that is wide open at the top, Ball's performance in the Australian NBL stands out. While the level of competition was low, Ball rated as the fourth-best player in the league at age 18 -- ahead of NBA veterans Bryce Cotton and Scott Machado, among others.

    Ball's inefficient shooting (he made just 25% of his 3-point attempts) is a concern, but his playmaking and rebounding are both preternaturally strong. As a result, the gap between his consensus projection and anyone else's is larger than the difference between No. 2 and No. 9 in the rankings.

    2. Tyrese Haliburton

    Iowa State
    PG
    Top 100: No. 8
    Stats: No. 2


    Consensus: 3.4 WARP

    Haliburton's freshman season stood out statistically, though he had a historically low usage rate for a prospect, finishing just 9% of the Cyclones' plays with a shot, trip to the free throw line or turnover. A strong performance at last summer's FIBA U19 World Cup put Haliburton firmly on the radar, and he backed it up by more than doubling his usage rate to 20% as a sophomore without sacrificing much efficiency.

    Haliburton's strong steal and block rates are key indicators of his ability to read plays on defense, and he projects as one of the better shooters in the draft after hitting 43% of his 3s in college.

    3. Anthony Edwards

    Georgia
    SG
    Top 100: No. 1
    Stats: No. 15


    Consensus: 3.1 WARP

    A decent but not spectacular freshman season marks Edwards as a relatively risky top pick. Other top-3 players with similar stats-only projections include hits (Victor Oladipo, Derrick Rose) but also big misses (Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Andrew Wiggins).

    Edwards' value as a pro probably will depend on his ability to become a consistent 3-point threat after hitting just 29% of his 7.7 attempts per game in 2019-20.

    4. Cole Anthony

    North Carolina
    PG
    Top 100: No. 13
    Stats: No. 3


    Consensus: 2.9 WARP

    Few top prospects have had such a big disparity between AAU and college performance as Anthony, who rated as the EYBL's best player both in 2017 as a rising junior (which is part of this projection) and again before his senior year of high school in 2018.

    Based strictly on his season at North Carolina, where he made a disappointing 40% of his 2-point attempts and was far less effective accumulating assists and steals, Anthony would rate as a late first-round prospect rather than on in the top 5.

    5. R.J. Hampton

    New Zealand Breakers
    G
    Top 100: No. 10
    Stats: No. 5


    Consensus: 2.6 WARP

    Hampton wasn't nearly as effective in the NBL as Ball was, ranking as the league's 45th-best player on a per-minute basis. He was almost equally inefficient without the kind of elite playmaking we saw from Ball, and his strong projection relies more heavily on his stats being regressed to the mean.

    As a result, I'd be wary of considering Hampton a top-5 prospect but would defer to those scouts who believe he belongs in the back part of the lottery.

    6. Deni Avdija

    Maccabi Tel Aviv
    F
    Top 100: No. 5
    Stats: No. 11


    Consensus: 2.4 WARP

    Unlike nearly all other prospects in this year's draft, Avdija will play competitive games before the draft as the Israeli Basketball Super League resumes play without fans.

    Playing in Israel, Avdija has been a high-percentage finisher -- he wasn't quite as strong in EuroLeague play this season -- with a strong assist rate for his size. Whether he can maintain 37.5% 3-point accuracy this year in the BSL (he shot 28% in EuroLeague) will help determine Avdija's upside.

    7. Devin Vassell

    Florida State
    W
    Top 100: No. 16
    Stats: No. 4


    Consensus: 2.4 WARP

    The strongest 3-and-D prospect in this year's draft, Vassell made 42% of his 3-point attempts over two seasons at Florida State and boasts a strong combination of steal and block rates that marks him as a plus wing defender.

    He compares well to Danny Green coming out of North Carolina.

    8. Killian Hayes

    Ratiopharm Ulm
    PG
    Top 100: No. 9
    Stats: No. 12


    Consensus: 2.1 WARP

    Expect growing pains if a team drafts the 18-year-old Hayes in the top 10 and gives him the keys to the offense right away. Only two NBA-bound players in my database (Kendall Marshall and David Stockton) have had higher projected turnover rates.

    Yet in time, Hayes' strong finishing for his size and court vision could make him a capable lead ball handler.

    9. Onyeka Okongwu

    USC
    PF
    Top 100: No. 6
    Stats: No. 18


    Consensus: 2.1 WARP

    The top-rated post player in my projections, Okongwu was productive enough as a freshman to offset the higher replacement level for big men. Okongwu has the third-best block projection among players in our top 100, along with an atypically strong steal rate for a post player. Okongwu was efficient offensively thanks to 62% shooting on 2s and 72% from the foul line.

    10. Isaac Okoro

    Auburn
    SF
    Top 100: No. 4
    Stats: No. 37


    Consensus: 1.8 WARP

    Okoro ranks in the top 10 largely on the strength of his position in the top 100, as he had an underwhelming freshman season for a top-10 pick.

    Only Okoro's solid block rate for a wing showcases the athletic potential scouts value, and he must improve on 29% 3-point shooting -- with 67% accuracy at the free throw line not encouraging in that regard.

    11. Aaron Nesmith

    Vanderbilt
    W
    Top 100: No. 12
    Stats: No. 17


    Consensus: 1.8 WARP

    Nesmith has apparently climbed draft boards, and understandably so given his potential as a shooter. He shot an incredible 52% on 115 3-point attempts during an abbreviated sophomore season, and while that's obviously not sustainable -- Nesmith shot just 34% from beyond the arc as a freshman -- 83% foul shooting does mark him as likely to show NBA 3-point range.

    12. Theo Maledon

    ASVEL
    PG
    Top 100: No. 17
    Stats: No. 14


    Consensus: 1.6 WARP

    Like Hayes, Maledon played a key role for a high-level European team at a young age, though he looks a bit further away from contributing in the NBA. Maledon's playmaking numbers haven't been nearly as strong, and his 3-point shooting could suffer from the transition to the longer line. As a result, this projection might flatter him a little.

    13. Cassius Winston

    Michigan State
    PG
    Top 100: No. 30
    Stats: No. 9


    Consensus: 1.5 WARP

    In recent years, veteran college point guards considered too small to be NBA starters have been a consistent source of draft value. Like Winston, Monte Morris (pick No. 51 in 2017) and Fred VanVleet (undrafted in 2016) weren't high picks despite top-10 stats-only projections. While it took them a couple of seasons to establish themselves, Morris is now a top-tier backup and VanVleet a valuable starter.

    Winston's excellent shooting (43% career from 3, 85% on free throws) should translate well to the NBA.

    14. Jahmi'us Ramsey

    Texas Tech
    G
    Top 100: No. 29
    Stats: No. 10


    Consensus: 1.5 WARP

    As a freshman, Ramsey played a key role for the Red Raiders; his 26% usage rate ranked sixth among first-year players in the power conferences, per Sports-Reference.com, and of that group only Duke's Vernon Carey Jr. had a better true shooting percentage.

    One concern is that Ramsey's 43% accuracy on 141 3-pointers might have been a fluke, as he shot just 64% from the line.

    15. Isaiah Joe

    Arkansas
    SG
    Top 100: No. 60
    Stats: No. 6


    Consensus: 1.5 WARP

    Perhaps the best pure shooter in the draft, Joe made just 34% of his 3s as a sophomore but attempted an incredible 10.6 per game and hit 41% of his 8.0 attempts as a freshman. While he slumped beyond the arc, Joe did hit 89% of his free throws as a sophomore, an encouraging sign.

    Joe doesn't do much else besides shoot, which helps explain his low spot in the top 100, but with solid size and his 3-point volume, he has a chance to be a Duncan Robinson-style specialist.

    16. James Wiseman

    Memphis
    C
    Top 100: No. 3
    Stats: No. 70


    Consensus: 1.4 WARP

    Because Wiseman played in only three college games, his unimpressive statistical projection is based almost entirely on the 2017 EYBL. Playing for Team Penny, Wiseman was a dominant shot-blocker but not the kind of interior force you'd expect from one of the nation's top prospects. His steal rate (only five in 17 games) was also a concern.

    Wiseman did dominate low-level competition in his first two games at Memphis and was productive, though not a difference-maker, in a loss to Oregon before being ruled ineligible.

    17. Malachi Flynn

    San Diego State
    PG
    Top 100: No. 38
    Stats: No. 8


    Consensus: 1.4 WARP

    After two solid years at Washington State, Flynn broke through as an elite college point guard after transferring to San Diego State. Size (he's 6-foot-1) could be an issue for Flynn in the NBA, but he's a capable shooter with good markers in terms of reading the game.

    18. Saddiq Bey

    Villanova
    SF
    Top 100: No. 18
    Stats: No. 21


    Consensus: 1.4 WARP

    Unusual for a statistically top-rated player, Bey didn't contribute much in terms of defensive stats, though he projects as a capable individual defender. Instead, his projection owes primarily to 42% 3-point shooting and mistake-free play on offense.

    19. Trevelin Queen

    New Mexico State
    SF
    Top 100: NR
    Stats: No. 7


    Consensus: 1.3 WARP

    My top-ranked player not currently projected among the ESPN top 60, junior college product Queen earned some attention from scouts because of his defensive potential. Among players in my college projection database listed at 6-foot-6 or taller, only Michael Carter-Williams had a better projected steal rate than Queen, who is also an above-average shot-blocker for a wing.

    Queen's 39% 3-point shooting on 5.3 attempts per game as a senior suggests 3-and-D potential.

    20. Nico Mannion

    Arizona
    PG
    Top 100: No. 19
    Stats: No. 25


    Consensus: 1.3 WARP

    Mannion's freshman season was projectable. While he wasn't an efficient scorer at Arizona, Mannion could boost his efficiency by improving on 33% 3-point shooting, something his 80% accuracy at the free throw line suggests he has the potential to do.

    21. Tyrese Maxey

    Kentucky
    SG
    Top 100: No. 14
    Stats: No. 34


    Consensus: 1.2 WARP

    As a freshman, Maxey's production was similar to Mannion's -- his shot is also projectable based on the disconnect between his 29% 3-point shooting and 83% accuracy at the line -- with the notable difference that he isn't the same kind of playmaker.

    22. Patrick Williams

    Florida State
    F
    Top 100: No. 15
    Stats: No. 35


    Consensus: 1.2 WARP

    Averaging a block and a steal per game in just 22.5 minutes off the bench was impressive for Williams. On the downside, weak defensive rebounding -- worse than that of his teammate Vassell -- might make it difficult for Williams to play as a small-ball 4 in the NBA.

    23. Josh Green

    Arizona
    SG
    Top 100: No. 20
    Stats: No. 33


    Consensus: 1.1 WARP

    Another one-and-done prospect with a similar combo of stats and ranking as Mannion, Maxey and Williams, Green, who is from Australia, must improve on 45% 2-point shooting as a freshman, though he posted encouraging defensive numbers.

    24. Joel Ayayi

    Gonzaga
    G
    Top 100: NR
    Stats: No. 13


    Consensus: 1.0 WARP

    Consider Ayayi one to watch for the future. In his Instagram post announcing his early entry to the draft, the WCC tournament MVP said his No. 1 option was returning to school, and with the pre-draft process currently shut down, it will be tough for him to boost his stock before the NCAA's withdrawal date.

    25. Tyrell Terry

    Stanford
    PG
    Top 100: No. 47
    Stats: No. 20


    Consensus: .9 WARP

    Relatively unheralded as a prospect entering the season, Terry put himself on the NBA's radar with impressive efficiency for a freshman point guard, knocking down 41% of his 3-point attempts and 89% of his free throws. He's still developing as a playmaker.

    26. Tre Jones

    Duke
    PG
    Top 100: No. 34
    Stats: No. 27


    Consensus: .9 WARP

    Returning for his sophomore season allowed Jones to improve his 3-point shooting from 26% as a freshman to 36%. The adjustment to the longer line could be an issue, but Jones' form doesn't appear broken, as he has made 77% of his career free throws.

    27. Markus Howard

    Marquette
    PG
    Top 100: No. 64
    Stats: No. 16


    Consensus: .9 WARP

    Because of his small stature (he's listed at 5-foot-11) and shoot-first style, Howard is the rare early developing star who stayed four years in college. He did improve his playmaking as an upperclassmen, but if he's going to stick in the NBA it probably will be as a Patty Mills-style combo guard, having hit 43% of his career 3-point attempts.

    28. Kira Lewis Jr.

    Alabama
    PG
    Top 100: No. 23
    Stats: No. 39


    Consensus: 0.9 WARP

    Though he is a sophomore, Lewis is younger than most of the one-and-done prospects in this year's draft. He was more productive last season than Mannion, Maxey and Green but doesn't benefit as much from the regression to the mean factor in my projections because he has two years of college data to their one.

    29. Xavier Tillman

    Michigan State
    PF
    Top 100: No. 49
    Stats: No. 22


    Consensus: 0.8 WARP

    The most surprising result in this year's draft projections is that Tillman finishes as the second-rated post prospect, ahead of likely lottery picks Obi Toppin (0.7 projected WARP) and Precious Achiuwa (0.5) -- both of whom are outside the top 30. Age is a factor: Though Toppin has played only two college seasons to Tillman's three, as a redshirt sophomore Toppin is almost a year older, and one-and-done prospect Achiuwa is barely eight months younger than Tillman.

    Toppin is the far more skilled scorer and Achiuwa more versatile defensively, but Tillman lacks their weaknesses at either end of the court, making him a more complete prospect. Per Sports-Reference.com, he actually led all NCAA players in box plus-minus during 2019-20, with Toppin third and Achiuwa not cracking the top 200.

    30. Desmond Bane

    TCU
    SG
    Top 100: No. 44
    Stats: No. 26


    Consensus: 0.8 WARP

    Atypically young for a four-year prospect -- he'll turn 22 later this week -- Bane is an excellent shooter who converted 43% of his career 3-point attempts and showed solid playmaking chops for a player of his ilk.
    https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...p-30-prospects

  12. #4734
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Yeah Deni has skyrocketed up my draft board. If we got him and somehow got a PG we would be great off.

  13. #4735
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    Feb 2010
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    Cole #4, how about that?

  14. #4736
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett2010 View Post
    Yeah Deni has skyrocketed up my draft board. If we got him and somehow got a PG we would be great off.
    Same here. He clearly worked really hard on his game during the time off.

  15. #4737
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    Dec 2008
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    Been high on Deni all along. Looks like a lock for top 5 at this point. Stock rising...

    We wind up with Ball, Deni, Hayes, or Hali, Iím feeling good about it

  16. #4738
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2010 or Bust View Post
    Kadeem is 27 years old and DSJ is only 22. I understand all the hate because of last year but like I've said you can't judge DSJ on one year that was a total mess. In his first year with Dallas he averaged 15pts 3rbs and 5asst and he also averaged the same when he first got traded to New York. That's the player that we traded for. Cant judge a kid on a year when his head coach gets fired, his mother in law dies, he gets hurt and the world is a complete mess. Give the kid a chance, he has talent that can't be taught.
    I so sick of the he is only 22 story when guys are missing essential skills. Heís a short guard that canít hit an open 16 foot jumper. The odds are completely stacked against him ever being a legitimate starter


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  17. #4739
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    Apr 2014
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    Deni is a play maker and if you don't get your PG at 6. He is a guy I would definitely choose if we missed on Ball or Hali. Then trade up for PG Kira Lewis and that would be a nice draft night for Knicks.

  18. #4740
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    11,065
    Quote Originally Posted by trueknickfan View Post
    Deni is a play maker and if you don't get your PG at 6. He is a guy I would definitely choose if we missed on Ball or Hali. Then trade up for PG Kira Lewis and that would be a nice draft night for Knicks.
    You must be joking.

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