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  1. #10111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Thatís all true

    But letís not act like guys donít get good looks anyways. A guy that can knock down a shot will get chances. Even with Payton out there, guys got looks, just rarely made them. He would still put up some points, and give us another guy that has to be guarded. Never a bad thing to have guys that make shots, defend, and make the right pass. Thatís all Iím saying
    Yeah but those arent the kind of players you draft in the lottery.

    You can find catch and shoot guys all over the draft.

  2. #10112
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL View Post
    Yeah but those arent the kind of players you draft in the lottery.

    You can find catch and shoot guys all over the draft.
    Iím tired of that theory. In a draft thatís seemingly lacking on high end talent, whatís wrong with taking a guy thatís just a good player for a long time. If more years than not, we drafted a good starter, we would have been better a long time ago. Take a shot if thereís a guy you like. If not, take a guy thatís a good pro for years. I donít like the players this year, Iíd be fine with a guy that shoots, passes, and defends. We have none of them

    Players like that still get paid, and teams still want them

  3. #10113
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    Most of the players like Grant and FVV came from winning situation where they donít have pressure to be more than what they are. Whatís the guarantee they can still produce under duress of having to take on a bigger role in a more stressful environment like NYC and survive. The probability is usually very low, just look at the last 20 years as proof.

    Canít always take a regular player from a winning team and give them a bigger role and expect to thrive. All-star have wilted here and some want to put a bigger role on someone who didnít have that pressure.

    Cole was targeted as the offense for UNC and still put up numbers being doubled to get the ball out his hand. Hali was on a garbage team and couldnít really put up numbers for his passive ways. Give Frank the same opportunity in minutes and he will give you better numbers than Hali.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  4. #10114
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    Most of the players like Grant and FVV came from winning situation where they donít have pressure to be more than what they are. Whatís the guarantee they can still produce under duress of having to take on a bigger role in a more stressful environment like NYC and survive. The probability is usually very low, just look at the last 20 years as proof.

    Canít always take a regular player for a winning team and give them a bigger role and expect to thrive. All-star have wilted here and some want to put a bigger role on someone who didnít have that pressure.

    Cole was targeted as the offense for UNC and still put up numbers being doubled to get the ball out his hand. Hali was on a garbage team and couldnít rally put up numbers for his passive ways. Give Frank the same opportunity in minutes and he will give you better numbers than Hali.
    Frank 100% cannot do that. Thatís actually a point in favor of Hali. If Frank could make an open shot, he would be a starter. As is, 3 years in, heís not even a rotation bench piece
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-23-2020 at 06:01 PM.

  5. #10115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Frank 100% cannot do that
    Thatís a matter of opinion not facts he never got a opportunity to get 30+ and heís now 22 and stronger with more experience.

    Fans just want quick ROI, some donít care to develop players and continuity of a team they want instant gratification.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  6. #10116
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    Dec 2009
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    11,009
    Quote Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL View Post
    Yeah but those arent the kind of players you draft in the lottery.

    You can find catch and shoot guys all over the draft.
    Yeah, but you really can't (only a handful of rookies shot above avg from 3 last yr) and he's not just catch and shoot. He does have floor general ability with the ball. You keep talking about high IQ players but you overlook Hali as if none of his skills will translate. You see how deep he is on his J. You see the pick and roll player that he is and the threat he is when he has the ball. Maybe not the most lethal threat to take it to the basket and throw it down on the whole team but you have to check him. His floater is tight and if you go under screens, it's done-dada.
    Last edited by Bivory; 09-23-2020 at 07:13 PM.

  7. #10117
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    Thatís a matter of opinion not facts he never got a full opportunity.
    Agree to disagree. Frank has been given way more opportunities than guys that appear to be bums usually get. Heís failed many times

  8. #10118
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    Best Case Scenario - Consensus??

    1. #8 - Draft Vassell or Okoro
    2. Trade with Phx for Kelly Oubre Jr. and 10 for 27th + Ellington/Bullock
    3. @ #10 - draft Kira Lewis

    ----------------
    Let's Get funky.

    1. #8 - Draft Vassell or Okoro
    2. Trade with Phx for Kelly Oubre Jr. and 10 for 27th + Ellington/Bullock
    3. Trade 10 with Celtics for 14 and 26th.
    4. #14 - Draft Jalen Smith
    5. #26 - Draft Riller.

  9. #10119
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Agree to disagree. Frank has been given way more opportunities than guys that appear to be bums usually get. Heís failed many times
    Getting burn is letting him start and playing 25+ over a full year like DJ did.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  10. #10120
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    Frank happens to only know how to play the PG spot the way some want in Hali as a facilitator, heís just passive on scoring. Canít be mad at that when Euro players are taught to play with fundamentals and the right way.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  11. #10121
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    Getting burn is letting him start and playing 25+ over a full year like DJ did.
    Every time he did, he played like ****

    Heís not a guy you can throw out there to take a beating, and he takes the challenge. They have actually started turning him into something possibly useful, thereís been improvement. If he could even make an open jumper, heíd be playing 25-30 minutes. They donít even guard him out there

    Iím not mad at his fundamentals, him being passive, or any of that. He is what he is, a role player that isnít great with the ball at all, and who canít shoot. Say Hali, you canít play him like that. He will hurt you. Itís not playing 4 on 5 out there. He will get shots, and he will make good passes, and he spaces the floor
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-23-2020 at 06:12 PM.

  12. #10122
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddygreen17 View Post
    Yeah, problem is sample size with both. We've played this game before. Contract year players 90% of the time do well. VanFleet is valuable, because we've seen him do it for multiple years. Grant is improving but is his truly worth the 16mil a year he'll likely be asking for - will he be worth that to Knicks. Same with Wood - fit, cost, all based on what - half a season? We just need to be careful. NBA is full of potholes and we do need to gamble (same with draft) but IMO Grant seems slightly more sustainable in the role we'd want for him and the role he sees himself. Wood would likely want a bigger role, equal money, based on what + coming from a losing situation...that is more of a gamble to me.
    Grantís been doing this for a while now, the past two years heís shooting close to 40% from 3 on almost 4 attempts a game. And his defense is legit. He also may end up costing less than Wood anyway and is just far more switchable. Switchable defenders are much more valuable than guys who can only guard 1 position in todayís NBA.

  13. #10123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Every time he did, he played like ****

    Heís not a guy you can throw out there to take a beating, and he takes the challenge. They have actually started turning him into something possibly useful, thereís been improvement. If he could even make an open jumper, heíd be playing 25-30 minutes. They donít even guard him out there
    His scouting reports said that from start. He was a 3 years project who was better served as a secondary ball handler while he grows into his body and get stronger with no pressure.

    Iím just saying is this, you can draft Hali and heís not built for NYC the moment he struggles itís over he will be ripped. All the skills donít compare if the kid canít handle verbal abuse. Thatís life in NYC getting verbally abused by the fans and media. Frank still mentally strong he knows what struggling is about and the last 7 games before the COVID he started to shape into what he can become.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  14. #10124
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    Jul 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Frank 100% cannot do that. Thatís actually a point in favor of Hali. If Frank could make an open shot, he would be a starter. As is, 3 years in, heís not even a rotation bench piece
    This is a harsh and inaccurate take imo, youíre pretty biased against him despite things like net rating, on/off, defensive numbers against P&R, improved three point shooting etc. Heís definitely a rotation piece and Iím pretty sure almost every team in the league views him as such.

    Letís see what his three ball looks like this year, I expect further improvement.

  15. #10125
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Grantís been doing this for a while now, the past two years heís shooting close to 40% from 3 on almost 4 attempts a game. And his defense is legit. He also may end up costing less than Wood anyway and is just far more switchable. Switchable defenders are much more valuable than guys who can only guard 1 position in todayís NBA.
    I fully agree. I just worry about his rebounding. If we sign FA's I want them to stay on the floor. Are we sure Mitch can avg. 13 a game? - He'd have to get that mentality. -

    Actually, now that I think about it, Tom may just allow RJ to freelance and let him get about 8 rb a game. RJ will prolly be down for that.

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