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  1. #11926
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    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    Brooklyn did it in less than 20 years would no 1st round draft picks. If the Knicks cannot evaluate, draft and develop properly they deserve to suck for another 20 years
    They signed KD and Kyrie and have done it through free agency and trades, not the draft. Outside of the Kidd run early in the 00’s, they’ve been in the same boat as the Knicks.

    Is LeVert their only draft pick worth discussing in the last 20 years? LeVert and Lopez?

    I guess the Nets deserve to suck also How quickly one year erases the memory of the Plumlee’s and Marshon Brooks of the world that they were drafting and failing to develop...

    All of the other players you’re probably thinking about were not draft picks and almost all of them are gone now anyway which shows that the only thing that matters is getting the guy. They even got rid of the coach who was credited for turning the “culture” around. Goes to show that it’s mostly just a buzzword and the only culture that matters is who a team’s best one or two players are.

    Also why ignore that their success largely came on the back of a high draft pick last year? He wasn’t their pick, but they don’t make the playoffs without him. They benefited from the Lakers needing to shed cap space otherwise we’d be talking about them like the same old Nets.
    Last edited by smood999; 10-20-2020 at 03:54 PM.

  2. #11927
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    Athletic latest mock draft has Knicks making trade with Suns...

    No. 8 — Phoenix Suns (via New York Knicks): Tyrese Haliburton, PG, Iowa State
    (Suns trade No. 10 and Kelly Oubre Jr. to Knicks for No. 8 pick and Reggie Bullock)

    The Suns make a surprising jump up the draft board, but there’s a purpose. They’re coming off an 8-0 run in the bubble. It’s probably not a leap to say they’re going to eye a playoff spot in the West next season. They’ll have to be creative to do it to build around Devin Booker and DeAndre Ayton.

    With this trade, they lose Oubre Jr. but can get Haliburton, who can become a very good compliment to Booker long-term in the backcourt. The trade also helps them lop off about $10 million in cap space, which isn’t a small thing for the Suns since they have a notoriously spending-averse owner in Robert Sarver, and that was before the pandemic upended every NBA team’s business model.

    Phoenix could be a player in free agency this offseason but needs to do some things and this could be one of them. This would allow Phoenix to make a harder play for Fred VanVleet and give it a strong trio of guards to rely on, while also easing Haliburton into the NBA instead of relying on him as a rookie while pushing for the postseason. Bullock also gives them a shooter on the wings. Losing Oubre isn’t ideal but if they sign FVV it’s a net positive. And if the Suns feel they’re light on bigs, certainly the Knicks can help.
    — Mike Vorkunov

    No. 10 — New York Knicks (via Phoenix Suns): Devin Vassell, W, Florida State
    The trade doesn’t come with much downside risk for the Knicks. They move down two spots in a draft that might be flat from like No. 7 to 15. They still get a guy who they could have taken at No. 8 and receive good reviews for. They also get Oubre, who is still just 24 and can really give the Knicks immediate help on the wing and pair with RJ Barrett. Oubre will make $14-ish million next season in the last year of his deal, so it gives them a chance to understand him up close before making a decision on him next offseason. If they like him, they get Bird Rights on a wing in his prime who they can keep as part of their core. If they don’t, he’s on the same contract length as Bullock.

    Vassell profiles as a 3-and-D wing and the Knicks need short- and long-term depth there. There is some new concern, though. The video that appeared on Twitter last week of Vassell’s new shooting form was, how do I put this, not great. Maybe that’s why it was soon taken down. The difficulty of having this weird pre-draft process is that teams haven’t seen players up close for workouts. They were just granted 10 by the NBA. I’m sure a few of them will want to bring in Vassell to know what’s up with his shot. If it’s okay, then Vassell remains a good prospect and the Knicks get a sweetener for a guy they could have taken two picks earlier if they had stood still. — Mike Vorkunov

  3. #11928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett2010 View Post
    Athletic latest mock draft has Knicks making trade with Suns...

    No. 8 — Phoenix Suns (via New York Knicks): Tyrese Haliburton, PG, Iowa State
    (Suns trade No. 10 and Kelly Oubre Jr. to Knicks for No. 8 pick and Reggie Bullock)

    The Suns make a surprising jump up the draft board, but there’s a purpose. They’re coming off an 8-0 run in the bubble. It’s probably not a leap to say they’re going to eye a playoff spot in the West next season. They’ll have to be creative to do it to build around Devin Booker and DeAndre Ayton.

    With this trade, they lose Oubre Jr. but can get Haliburton, who can become a very good compliment to Booker long-term in the backcourt. The trade also helps them lop off about $10 million in cap space, which isn’t a small thing for the Suns since they have a notoriously spending-averse owner in Robert Sarver, and that was before the pandemic upended every NBA team’s business model.

    Phoenix could be a player in free agency this offseason but needs to do some things and this could be one of them. This would allow Phoenix to make a harder play for Fred VanVleet and give it a strong trio of guards to rely on, while also easing Haliburton into the NBA instead of relying on him as a rookie while pushing for the postseason. Bullock also gives them a shooter on the wings. Losing Oubre isn’t ideal but if they sign FVV it’s a net positive. And if the Suns feel they’re light on bigs, certainly the Knicks can help.
    — Mike Vorkunov

    No. 10 — New York Knicks (via Phoenix Suns): Devin Vassell, W, Florida State
    The trade doesn’t come with much downside risk for the Knicks. They move down two spots in a draft that might be flat from like No. 7 to 15. They still get a guy who they could have taken at No. 8 and receive good reviews for. They also get Oubre, who is still just 24 and can really give the Knicks immediate help on the wing and pair with RJ Barrett. Oubre will make $14-ish million next season in the last year of his deal, so it gives them a chance to understand him up close before making a decision on him next offseason. If they like him, they get Bird Rights on a wing in his prime who they can keep as part of their core. If they don’t, he’s on the same contract length as Bullock.

    Vassell profiles as a 3-and-D wing and the Knicks need short- and long-term depth there. There is some new concern, though. The video that appeared on Twitter last week of Vassell’s new shooting form was, how do I put this, not great. Maybe that’s why it was soon taken down. The difficulty of having this weird pre-draft process is that teams haven’t seen players up close for workouts. They were just granted 10 by the NBA. I’m sure a few of them will want to bring in Vassell to know what’s up with his shot. If it’s okay, then Vassell remains a good prospect and the Knicks get a sweetener for a guy they could have taken two picks earlier if they had stood still. — Mike Vorkunov
    I would do this all day but I’m probably higher on Oubre than some others here.

    Even if we didn’t get FVV or CP3 rolling with
    Frank-Vassell-RJ-Oubre-Mitch would be a fun group in my eyes personally. Right now from a Knicks pod I listen to they said Frank is the starting PG on the Knicks bubble depth chart. I know that will make some here wanna puke but just relaying what I heard yesterday.

  4. #11929
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    I would do this all day but I’m probably higher on Oubre than some others here.

    Even if we didn’t get FVV or CP3 rolling with
    Frank-Vassell-RJ-Oubre-Mitch would be a fun group in my eyes personally. Right now from a Knicks pod I listen to they said Frank is the starting PG on the Knicks bubble depth chart. I know that will make some here wanna puke but just relaying what I heard yesterday.
    I don’t dislike the trade but I think we would be better served acquiring another pick in 2021. But if that fails and we couldn't get a better trade down deal, I would consider it.

    As for Frank, if he is our starting PG going into next season then that tells me Rose has embraced the tank lol.

  5. #11930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett2010 View Post
    I don’t dislike the trade but I think we would be better served acquiring another pick in 2021. But if that fails and we couldn't get a better trade down deal, I would consider it.

    As for Frank, if he is our starting PG going into next season then that tells me Rose has embraced the tank lol.
    Ha well embracing the tank isn’t the worst idea considering the 2021 draft class.

    But also and for some reason we don’t seem to realize this enough here but RJ is going to be a ball dominant wing in this league. He’s not as effective off ball imo so in half court sets you’re going to see him orchestrating offense a lot if you’re maximizing him/utilizing him correctly. It’s another reason Randle really does not work here. But I also don’t think you necessarily want a ball dominant lead guard next to RJ. Just something to be cognizant of.

  6. #11931
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    Knicks favor Killian Hayes as second NBA Draft point guard after LaMelo Ball

    By Marc Berman

    It doesn’t mean the Knicks will pick him if he falls to No. 8 in the NBA Draft, but Killian Hayes currently has a narrow edge as the team’s second point guard on the board after LaMelo Ball, according to NBA sources.

    Hayes, the 19-year-old left-hander who played in Germany last season, is considered to have a more supreme skill set than the other lottery-projected point guards such as Tyrese Haliburton, Kira Lewis, Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon and Tyrese Maxey.

    It should be noted the NBA has just relaxed player workout rules, allowing four half-hour in-person workouts/interviews/medical evaluations, so a turn of affairs can still be in order before Nov. 18. Four team officials are permitted at a Hayes workout.

    The Knicks had gone into last season with an eye on drafting a point guard of the future but they are not stuck on that idea since president Leon Rose took charge in March. For instance, if forward Obi Toppin falls to No. 8, they certainly would pounce. Small forward Isaac Okoro also has intrigue.

    Hayes has agreed to do a limited number of private, in-person workouts with one team. The Knicks probably will be granted an audience, according to a source.

    A live, in-person workout for Hayes is considered important since he didn’t benefit from the exposure of the NCAA.

    “He’s a great pick-and-roll point guard,” said Rashad Phillips, who runs the “SportsTalk 2319“ mock draft. “He’s a dominant left-handed guard but he has great speed and shift and is a decent shooter.”

    Hayes is Florida-born but his father, DeRon Hayes, played in France after a four-year college career at Penn State and that’s where Killian grew up.

    Hayes opted against the NCAA and played for Ratiofarm Ulm in the German League. Hayes’ stock has risen since the March shutdown and he’s been placed before eight in some mock drafts. Hayes interviewed with the Knicks in June on Zoom.

    The Post has reported the Knicks have seriously considered trading back from No. 8 to pick up an extra asset in a draft riddled with parity. For instance, they can get a young player in a trade and fall to No. 15 and draft someone like Maledon, who is considered a better playmaking point guard.

    Knicks brass have a lot of varying opinions on lottery picks after Ball and big man James Wiseman, both of whom they covet.

    In 33 EuroCup and German League games, Hayes averaged 11.6 points, 5.4 assists. 2.8 rebounds, 1.5 steals and 3.2 turnovers in 24 minutes. He shot 48.2 percent from the field — 29.4 percent from 3-point range — and 87.6 percent from the free-throw line.

    Hayes has been turnover-prone and is no speedster like Alabama’s Lewis.

    “He doesn’t have blow-by speed but he can see the floor,” one NBA scout said. “He also can be more of a point-guard/shooting guard.”

    The prior two seasons Hayes played in the French League for his hometown team, Cholet, beginning at age 16.

    Scouts believe Hayes needed to bolt France for stronger competition.

    “It was a season I really had to prove I can play in the NBA,” Hayes said last month on a Zoom call for draft prospects. “I was a secondary point guard in France. In Germany I really had the keys to the team. I had to call out every play.”

    In France, Hayes got to know Knicks’ 2017 lottery pick Frank Ntilikina, who plays point guard, too.

    “It would be dope,” Hayes said of being a Ntilikina’s teammate “He’s not really a true point guard. He can play the 1 or the 2, so I think it would be a good duo.”

    “I’ve known Frank for a long time now, he’s told me a lot about the NBA and what it takes to stay in the NBA,” Hayes added.
    https://nypost.com/2020/10/20/knicks...elo-ball/amp/?

    Sign me up. Hayes and Okoro are my two favorite options at 8.

  7. #11932
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    https://nypost.com/2020/10/20/knicks...elo-ball/amp/?

    Sign me up. Hayes and Okoro are my two favorite options at 8.
    Same here. Also heard some chatter about the Knicks moving up to 4-5 to take Okoro too, which I would be fine with.

  8. #11933
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Years View Post
    Except the ones that disagree with me!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Knick Danger View Post
    Not that PSD is the sole indicator, but I just visited the NY Giants page and there isn't even a page on the last game thread. And don't bother with say the Nets page where the last post was in July. Here ya got 400 plus pages of pure Frank. And I came here from another board where they're just as nuts. Knicks fans indeed....
    I only have 1 post in there from February 13th, 2018. How is it still alive? I'm scared!

    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    Compared to zeke era its way less now still pretty decent for the worst franchise in NY ever.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
    When we had that year where we were the #2 and eliminated Boston in the first round it was a ZOO in here. I was happy the Knicks were good but this forum was actually pretty annoying. That being said, I'd MUCH RATHER deal with this forum being an out of control zoo and us be good again.
    Last edited by KnicksorBust; 10-20-2020 at 05:35 PM.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  9. #11934
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    They signed KD and Kyrie and have done it through free agency and trades, not the draft. Outside of the Kidd run early in the 00’s, they’ve been in the same boat as the Knicks.

    Is LeVert their only draft pick worth discussing in the last 20 years? LeVert and Lopez?

    I guess the Nets deserve to suck also How quickly one year erases the memory of the Plumlee’s and Marshon Brooks of the world that they were drafting and failing to develop...

    All of the other players you’re probably thinking about were not draft picks and almost all of them are gone now anyway which shows that the only thing that matters is getting the guy. They even got rid of the coach who was credited for turning the “culture” around. Goes to show that it’s mostly just a buzzword and the only culture that matters is who a team’s best one or two players are.

    Also why ignore that their success largely came on the back of a high draft pick last year? He wasn’t their pick, but they don’t make the playoffs without him. They benefited from the Lakers needing to shed cap space otherwise we’d be talking about them like the same old Nets.
    The KnicksThe Nets went from the worse team to a playoff team without their first. The Knicks sucked with their first round picks. There is a difference. Knicks problems stem from believing they are something they are not ATTRACTIVE and the unwillingness to put in the work. Only one team will win the chip each year no guarantees even if u have Durant and Westbrook on your squad but to be uncompetitive or look like a inompetent organization is another. No matter what u think Brooklynn was at least competent after the disaster of trades that in itself can be attractive in this market. In the same breath Denver selected Murray and Jokic, Portland Dame and Mcollogh, Utah Mitchell and Gobert, Milwaukee Giannas. Knicks could have drafted Mitchell, Portis and Bam without moving up or down in the draft. Just do your homework and put in the damn work. Also how about some damn stability. Stop reaching for scubs because the assets are burning a hole in your pocket
    Last edited by cssdmark; 10-20-2020 at 06:00 PM.

  10. #11935
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Ha well embracing the tank isn’t the worst idea considering the 2021 draft class.

    But also and for some reason we don’t seem to realize this enough here but RJ is going to be a ball dominant wing in this league. He’s not as effective off ball imo so in half court sets you’re going to see him orchestrating offense a lot if you’re maximizing him/utilizing him correctly. It’s another reason Randle really does not work here. But I also don’t think you necessarily want a ball dominant lead guard next to RJ. Just something to be cognizant of.
    Nope, not the worst idea by a long shot.

  11. #11936
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    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    The KnicksThe Nets went from the worse team to a playoff team without their first. The Knicks sucked with their first round picks. There is a difference. Knicks problems stem from believing they are something they are not ATTRACTIVE and the unwillingness to put in the work. Only one team will win the chip each year no guarantees even if u have Durant and Westbrook on your squad but to be uncompetitive or look like a inompetent organization is another. No matter what u think Brooklynn was at least competent after the disaster of trades that in itself can be attractive in this market. In the same breath Denver selected Murray and Jokic, Portland Dame and Mcollogh, Utah Mitchell and Gobert, Milwaukee Giannas. Knicks could have drafted Mitchell, Portis and Bam without moving up or down in the draft. Just do your homework and put in the damn work. Also how about some damn stability. Stop reaching for scubs because the assets are burning a hole in your pocket
    You brought up the draft and I simply pointed out that although the Nets did not have a high first round pick, their success came as a result of one and also that the Nets didn’t draft and develop well at all.

    If you want to talk about their success identifying players in free agency and trades then you’d have a point. I don’t see the point with bringing them up as an example of doing homework in the draft and developing well when they didn’t do that at all.

    You can name misses for every team. The real question is whether those same teams that capitalized would’ve made the same picks if drafting earlier and the answer is likely no. They were picking based on their range.

    The Spurs passed on Jokic and they are as competent as it gets and probably have the best European scouting.

    Milwaukee drafted Giannis, but the also drafted Jabari Parker. Is there another draft pick on that team besides DiVincenzo? If anything it’s just more proof that having the guy is all that matters.

    Portland was gifted Lillard by the Nets. They were already a good team. The last time they had to build from the ground up were the Oden/Roy teams. Lillard was also drafted higher than where the Knicks mostly pick. He would’ve been their third highest pick since Ewing.

    Again, Denver drafted Jokic at 41. If you think that can be replicated, good luck. Murray was also still drafted higher than where most Knicks picks are.

    If it were that simple, teams would hit in the draft way more often than they do. Instead what usually happens is you’ll have your good players at the top of the draft that most expected and then one or two surprises later on...key word being surprises.

    What you’re also missing is that all of these teams have severely missed in the draft more than they’ve hit. Utah with the same scouting department took Exum over Smart and LaVine and traded up to take Deron Williams over Chris Paul, but yet you only want to praise them for their hits.

    What about the Nuggets, who you first brought up, that traded both Mitchell and Gobert to Utah? Were they incompetent in those moments or only competent when drafting Jokic? The draft is hard. No need to simplify it. Like baseball, it’s a game of failure.

    I think the bigger issue is that if you want to make life easy when drafting, draft higher. It’s a bigger crapshoot the further down you go and it’s silly to think it’s as simple as you’re making it seem. Who is to say that they aren’t “putting in the work?” Outside of Phil Jackson falling asleep during a workout, what makes you think that?
    Last edited by smood999; 10-20-2020 at 06:57 PM.

  12. #11937
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    Also on the Lamelo Ball train has he elevated the play of any team he has been on. I thought his high school won two state titles after he left. I am reading his father hand picked his teams that were bad so he could showcase him. What was that Lithuanian (whatever country it was) teams record anyway? Has this kid ever had to compete and now with a suspect jumpshot no defense and lazy work habits. Sounds like you guys are reaching. That is a player you may draft if in your range not drop assets to get. California is not NYC when it comes to pressure I am not sure he could handle adversity. Thibs is not going for that ****. I'd rather use the assets to get his brother from NO. I would not take Okoro but I can see the appeal and why Thibs would. Same thing I see in Barrett.
    Last edited by cssdmark; 10-20-2020 at 06:18 PM.

  13. #11938
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    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    Also on the Lamelo Ball train has he elevated the play of any team he has been on. I thought his high school won two state titles after he left. I am reading his father hand picked his teams that were bad so he could showcase him. What was that Lithuanian (whatever country it was) teams record anyway? Has this kid ever had to compete and now with a suspect jumpshot no defense and lazy work habits. Sounds like you guys are reaching. That is a player you may draft if in your range not drop assets to get. Thibs is not going for that ****. I'd rather use the assets to get his brother from NO.
    Who’s at the top of your board at 8?

  14. #11939
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    Killian Hayes is a turnover machine. He averaged 5.4 assists and 3.2 turnovers. He is a lefty and terrible dribbling to his right. He's good at creating space for his shot. That's about it. It'll take him at least 2-3 seasons to adjust to the NBA.

  15. #11940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett2010 View Post
    Athletic latest mock draft has Knicks making trade with Suns...

    No. 8 — Phoenix Suns (via New York Knicks): Tyrese Haliburton, PG, Iowa State
    (Suns trade No. 10 and Kelly Oubre Jr. to Knicks for No. 8 pick and Reggie Bullock)

    The Suns make a surprising jump up the draft board, but there’s a purpose. They’re coming off an 8-0 run in the bubble. It’s probably not a leap to say they’re going to eye a playoff spot in the West next season. They’ll have to be creative to do it to build around Devin Booker and DeAndre Ayton.

    With this trade, they lose Oubre Jr. but can get Haliburton, who can become a very good compliment to Booker long-term in the backcourt. The trade also helps them lop off about $10 million in cap space, which isn’t a small thing for the Suns since they have a notoriously spending-averse owner in Robert Sarver, and that was before the pandemic upended every NBA team’s business model.

    Phoenix could be a player in free agency this offseason but needs to do some things and this could be one of them. This would allow Phoenix to make a harder play for Fred VanVleet and give it a strong trio of guards to rely on, while also easing Haliburton into the NBA instead of relying on him as a rookie while pushing for the postseason. Bullock also gives them a shooter on the wings. Losing Oubre isn’t ideal but if they sign FVV it’s a net positive. And if the Suns feel they’re light on bigs, certainly the Knicks can help.
    — Mike Vorkunov

    No. 10 — New York Knicks (via Phoenix Suns): Devin Vassell, W, Florida State
    The trade doesn’t come with much downside risk for the Knicks. They move down two spots in a draft that might be flat from like No. 7 to 15. They still get a guy who they could have taken at No. 8 and receive good reviews for. They also get Oubre, who is still just 24 and can really give the Knicks immediate help on the wing and pair with RJ Barrett. Oubre will make $14-ish million next season in the last year of his deal, so it gives them a chance to understand him up close before making a decision on him next offseason. If they like him, they get Bird Rights on a wing in his prime who they can keep as part of their core. If they don’t, he’s on the same contract length as Bullock.

    Vassell profiles as a 3-and-D wing and the Knicks need short- and long-term depth there. There is some new concern, though. The video that appeared on Twitter last week of Vassell’s new shooting form was, how do I put this, not great. Maybe that’s why it was soon taken down. The difficulty of having this weird pre-draft process is that teams haven’t seen players up close for workouts. They were just granted 10 by the NBA. I’m sure a few of them will want to bring in Vassell to know what’s up with his shot. If it’s okay, then Vassell remains a good prospect and the Knicks get a sweetener for a guy they could have taken two picks earlier if they had stood still. — Mike Vorkunov
    Thats probably one of the better trades but you'd think we go pg if we trade for oubre unless we play him at the 4

    Cole
    Rj
    Oubre
    Mook
    Mitch

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