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  1. #10186
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    10,439
    Quote Originally Posted by beagleboss View Post
    Teams need to ignore these stupid rankings. Herro is by far the 3rd best player of last years class and should have been the pick but since every damn mock had RJ '40/30/60' Barrett, we were pressured into taking him. There is no way RJ would have been the 3rd best player available with that shooting if GMs and scouts did their homework.
    This is ridiculous. I’m not even a fan of RJ. But you’re suggesting you thought we should take Tyler Herro with the 3rd pick? I’d like to see that...

  2. #10187
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    6,503
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    This is ridiculous. I’m not even a fan of RJ. But you’re suggesting you thought we should take Tyler Herro with the 3rd pick? I’d like to see that...
    Yeah I like Herro but he has the advantage of playing on the best team in the East.

    If you slot RJ in there instead:

    Dragic-RJ-Butler-Robinson-Bam

    I’m sure RJ suddenly looks much better.

  3. #10188
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    10,439
    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Yeah I like Herro but he has the advantage of playing on the best team in the East.

    If you slot RJ in there instead:

    Dragic-RJ-Butler-Robinson-Bam

    I’m sure RJ suddenly looks much better.
    He can fully play the role he’s good at. Straight shooting/scoring. Team defense is stout, all he needs to do is play the role, and do his part

  4. #10189
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    262
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    This is ridiculous. I’m not even a fan of RJ. But you’re suggesting you thought we should take Tyler Herro with the 3rd pick? I’d like to see that...
    I'm just saying we need to do our research and pick the best player. I think it was proven RJ was not the third best player in the draft. I'm sick of teams picking after us ending up with the much better player.

  5. #10190
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    262
    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Yeah I like Herro but he has the advantage of playing on the best team in the East.

    If you slot RJ in there instead:

    Dragic-RJ-Butler-Robinson-Bam

    I’m sure RJ suddenly looks much better.
    Changing teams don't change his awful shooting.

  6. #10191
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    10,439
    Quote Originally Posted by beagleboss View Post
    I'm just saying we need to do our research and pick the best player. I think it was proven RJ was not the third best player in the draft. I'm sick of teams picking after us ending up with the much better player.
    Is he the much better player? No one was saying that until today..

    If he doesn’t have another 30+ game, is he better? Will RJ get better? Will RJ get a decent roster around him?

  7. #10192
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    3,861
    People have to get a grip to understand any player we would have chosen won’t be efficient or effect on the Knicks, there development staff has always been trash, but also have forced all the rookies to play roles not suited to them.

    That’s as simple as I can get. It didn’t matter who you brought in from prior drafts they would have stunk in NY, at that point it’s not the player but the team itself along with coaching staff and FO.

    Dreaming about other players is fantasy land thinking. Not many FA or traded brought in ever lived up to the hype on the Knicks because of the bad builds FO put together with the opposite type players the coaching staff needed to be successful.

    Put RJ on a better established team and yeah he would be more effective like Herro, bring Herro to NY this past year and he would have been a Zero. What RJ did with no spacing or shooting was better than others in that draft would have done.
    “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
    ― Albert Einstein
    “I will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.”
    ― Tamar Myers
    “Don't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.”
    ― Michael Jordan

  8. #10193
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    6,503
    Quote Originally Posted by beagleboss View Post
    I'm just saying we need to do our research and pick the best player. I think it was proven RJ was not the third best player in the draft. I'm sick of teams picking after us ending up with the much better player.
    This is almost guaranteed to always happen lol

    It’s statistically super unlikely to actually pick “the best player”. There’s always gonna be guys that go after who turn out better, just reality.

    Pick as best you can and then actually DEVELOP them and hire real basketball people to do so.

  9. #10194
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    1,646
    This past season, Cole Anthony’s usage percentage at North Carolina was 30.0%. Combine that with Barrett’s usage of 24.0% and the Knicks are going to have a lot of problems. Additionally, the Knicks have already had plenty of problems with players who are inefficient and can’t play defense. They don’t need that once again.
    Link: https://theknickswall.com/knicks-202...-future-draft/

    I don't understand why some Knick fans are so pig headed. A pass first point guard is DESPERATELY needed. Putting a bunch of fantasy stat scorers together NEVER works. Someone has to sacrifice statistically to make the team around them better.

  10. #10195
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    3,861
    If you are the best player on your team in college there usage rate was usually over 30% you can look that up via basketball reference. Blow smoke up some else’s ***.

    RJ usuage rate was 31% in college dropped to 24% , Randles usage rate was 27.6 and 27.8 with the Pelicans the year before. Payton’s usage rate has never been higher than 21% at any point and he’s a pass first PG. Frank’s usage rate has never been over 17% and actually has decreased the last 3 years. Bobby Portis usage rate was 21% which was the lowest since his first 2 years. Marcus Morris usage rate was 24.4%. So Randle then Morris and RJ last had the 3 highest usage rates on the starting 5, no **** they were the main scorers.

    So Randle had the ball more than RJ during the season. Whoever is your main scorers they get the higher usage numbers usually.
    Last edited by justcallmetm; 09-24-2020 at 01:57 PM.
    “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
    ― Albert Einstein
    “I will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.”
    ― Tamar Myers
    “Don't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.”
    ― Michael Jordan

  11. #10196
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    1,646
    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    If you are the best player on your team in college there usage rate was usually over 30% you can look that up via basketball reference. Blow smoke up some else’s ***.

    RJ usuage rate was 31% in college dropped to 24% , Randles usage rate was 27.6 and 27.8 with the Pelicans the year before. Payton’s usage rate has never been higher than 21% at any point and he’s a pass first PG. Frank’s usage rate has never been over 17% and actually has decreased the last 3 years. Bobby Portis usage rate was 21% which was the lowest since his first 2 years. Marcus Morris usage rate was 24.4%. So Randle then Morris and RJ last had the 3 highest usage rates on the starting 5, no **** they were the main scorers.

    So Randle had the ball more than RJ during the season. Whoever is your main scorers they get the higher usage numbers usually.
    Yes. The problem becomes in balancing the touches. Randle, RJ Barrett NEED the ball...and then you throw in Cole Anthony who is a scoring guard...WHO gives up their personal numbers so the others can benefit?

    The link to the article I provide breaks it down. This is why a pass first point guard is so needed.

  12. #10197
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    3,861
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    Yes. The problem becomes in balancing the touches. Randle, RJ Barrett NEED the ball...and then you throw in Cole Anthony who is a scoring guard...WHO gives up their personal numbers so the others can benefit?

    The link to the article I provide breaks it down. This is why a pass first point guard is so needed.
    Morris isn’t there and Randle is being shopped. That’s the top 2 gone, so RJ keeps the same rate we need 1-2 replacements. Mitch doesn’t need the ball, and a pass first PG will usually have a low usage rate due to well passing the ball as quick as possible.

    Your left with the main scorers with the ball in there hand, isn’t that how it works your best scoring player with the ball. Look at all the teams and check there best 2-3 players on the starting and off the bench and you will see a pattern of over 25% especially if they are able to create for themselves.

    Payton pass first doesn’t crack 21%, Rubio pass first never higher than 23% and that was with Utah. Logic says pass first pg usually don’t have high usage numbers and don’t have the ball in there hand. Rondo is a career 19%, even CP3 has been on average 24% and that’s because he can score. Nash is a career 21% also another scorer who was pass first. J.Kidd career 19.2%. Get the drift
    Last edited by justcallmetm; 09-24-2020 at 02:32 PM.
    “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
    ― Albert Einstein
    “I will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.”
    ― Tamar Myers
    “Don't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.”
    ― Michael Jordan

  13. #10198
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    3,861
    Still need more scorers to replace the ones we will lose. If the pass first PG isn’t good at creating his own shot then we still have the same issue. We need a scoring PG who can attract the defense to kick out to that corner 3 or get to the line for the easy bucket. That’s the type of play Thibs wants to utilize, but he will have to adjust to whoever is the PG if that PG is incapable to get to the paint for easy buckets some else will have to pick up that slack.
    “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
    ― Albert Einstein
    “I will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.”
    ― Tamar Myers
    “Don't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.”
    ― Michael Jordan

  14. #10199
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    22,276
    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    THIS: Tyrese Haliburton .“Iowa State’s Tyrese Haliburton has signed with CAA Sports
    @TyHaliburton22
    might be the best PG and passer in the draft. His size, pace and vision in the pick and roll is going to translate well at the next level. Created opportunities all day at
    @impactbball
    run |
    @CAA_Basketball


    https://twitter.com/swishcultures_/s...921483265?s=20 This is what a floor genera looks like.
    Could this be a sign Knicks will end up with Hali?

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

  15. #10200
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,621
    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    People have to get a grip to understand any player we would have chosen won’t be efficient or effect on the Knicks, there development staff has always been trash, but also have forced all the rookies to play roles not suited to them.

    That’s as simple as I can get. It didn’t matter who you brought in from prior drafts they would have stunk in NY, at that point it’s not the player but the team itself along with coaching staff and FO.

    Dreaming about other players is fantasy land thinking. Not many FA or traded brought in ever lived up to the hype on the Knicks because of the bad builds FO put together with the opposite type players the coaching staff needed to be successful.

    Put RJ on a better established team and yeah he would be more effective like Herro, bring Herro to NY this past year and he would have been a Zero. What RJ did with no spacing or shooting was better than others in that draft would have done.
    While I don't always agree with what you say JUST, I most certainly agree with this. RJ and Mitch are on our team and all I ever hear on this forum are their deficiencies. Lets hope the new coaching regime can draw out their best selves. If we don't think this draft will land us a foundational piece then trade out and look towards the trade market. IMHO we need a pass first, drive and kick out PG. His ability to shoot would be a huge plus. We need to find two-way players. I feel that Thibs and Woody are the right fits to help this to happen, providing the FO agrees and gets them these types of players. I like Wood's game but truly Randle would be a better fit based on his D. That's the way we need to think.

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