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  1. #9991
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Iíve watched a lot of tape on him. If youíre interested Iíd just say go down the rabbit hole, you can YouTube Killian Hayes full game and find good stuff.

    If heís there at 8 we should 1000% take him imo but I doubt he gets past Detroit. He could go before that.
    I have and am again... I do see craftiness, i do see vision, Are we projecting pseudo Doncic/Harden level shooting/handles?

    Again, it's prob just a blind spot on my part...

  2. #9992
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    Jun 2011
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    To me, I think it's his style of play, success seems to depend on him being an elite shooter and having elite handles to break down the Defense.

    Shooting tends to always trend up with NBA work and development and I do see definite flashes there...

    To project his handles though, to me is tough because you are literally creating an entire hand....

    That's a tall ask imo...

    He dribbles left, passes left, it almost seems at times the right hand is in his pocket, non existent...

    He is young and it could just be a confidence issue off the dominant hand, but if it truly is "not there", to get from there to the elite level he needs for his style of play is honestly not something I'm confident betting on....

  3. #9993
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    Jun 2011
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    His interviews aren't great either...

    Some guys at the top are stating "they want to be great, whatever it takes"

    He seems to have more of a "not too many low games" "want to be consistent" mentality....

    I just don't trust the kid to be what we need... Hopefully Det does draft him....

  4. #9994
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    Jul 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYK2RIP View Post
    To me, I think it's his style of play, success seems to depend on him being an elite shooter and having elite handles to break down the Defense.

    Shooting tends to always trend up with NBA work and development and I do see definite flashes there...

    To project his handles though, to me is tough because you are literally creating an entire hand....

    That's a tall ask imo...

    He dribbles left, passes left, it almost seems at times the right hand is in his pocket, non existent...

    He is young and it could just be a confidence issue off the dominant hand, but if it truly is "not there", to get from there to the elite level he needs for his style of play is honestly not something I'm confident betting on....
    Iím not gonna compare him to Doncic or Harden, I donít think that level of player exists anywhere in this draft, although some of his skill/craftiness does remind me of a poor manís Harden.

    The left hand thing doesnít trip me up so much. I think we notice this way more with lefties. Plenty of righties at 18 years old struggle to go left against top competition. Again youíre watching him play against grown men in the Euroleague. Itís not the same as playing 18 year old AAU kids straight out of high school.

    Iíll be shocked if Hayes isnít a good NBA player. At worst I see a league average starting point guard in his prime, which right now if we had the 15th best PG in the league I think anyone here would be all over that.

  5. #9995
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Iím not gonna compare him to Doncic or Harden, I donít think that level of player exists anywhere in this draft, although some of his skill/craftiness does remind me of a poor manís Harden.

    The left hand thing doesnít trip me up so much. I think we notice this way more with lefties. Plenty of righties at 18 years old struggle to go left against top competition. Again youíre watching him play against grown men in the Euroleague. Itís not the same as playing 18 year old AAU kids straight out of high school.

    Iíll be shocked if Hayes isnít a good NBA player. At worst I see a league average starting point guard in his prime, which right now if we had the 15th best PG in the league I think anyone here would be all over that.
    If he somehow ends up a Knick, I'll be rooting hard to be wrong...

  6. #9996
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    Dec 2012
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    I might take hayes over hali but not cole .cole fits our team like a glove

  7. #9997
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    Dec 2014
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    #8- PF Obi Toppin (after latest mock...I would go with him and they say he's been blowing teams away at his workouts...not to mention he's NBA ready...the Knicks would be idiots to pass on him)

    #27- PG/SG RJ Hampton
    #35- C Vernon Carey, Jr

  8. #9998
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    Aug 2020
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    Been fence on this debate..but your take has certainly open my eyes and nudged me towards Cole..Well said !

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  9. #9999
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    So hereís what youíre missing:

    Heís 18, season cut short this year due to COVID, but at these young ages what youíre looking for is quick leaps in performance/skill improvement.

    Most 18 year olds in Euroleague arenít on the A team. Theyíre on the B team. If they are on the A team they usually donít get playing time.

    Hayes at 18 not only made the A team but ran them as Point Guard for 27 minutes a game, averaging 13 ppg and over 6 assists, shooting 39% from three on over 4 attempts a game and 91% from the line. Heís also a pretty damn good defender with great size for position.

    Again it is NOT the norm in Euroleague for 18 year olds to be on the A team, and if they are they usually barely play. Imo Hayes is a top 5 prospect in this draft, wonít be surprised if he ends up one of the 3 or 4 best from this class.

    Advanced floater game, great playmaking including high level off the dribble one handed passes, great step back shooter - thereís a lot there.
    There will be other players who can shoot and pass why take the risk for Hayes. Lonzo has better tools then Hayes and ppl on this board don't even want him for free.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

  10. #10000
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    I might take hayes over hali but not cole .cole fits our team like a glove
    Cole is a no brainer he has everything we want in today's PG but my feelings is Knicks will be Knicks again porter jr 2.0 again.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

  11. #10001
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYK2RIP View Post
    Haliburton based on your philosophy is a sound choice.

    What some are trying to explain here however is that the philosophy itself is flawed.

    In this post you describe the "fit" you believe he has, in others you describe the elite "facilitators"...

    What I believe you are missing though is that we are too early in the rebuild to have anything for anyone to "fit"...

    We are too lack in talent for a "facilitator" to have anything to facilitate to...

    We have to pick the players with the greatest chance and odds to become dominant overall players...

    There are 0 players in this draft that guarantee that type of production, but we are not yet in any position to bypass the players with the greatest odds to reach that level...

    We are not signing big time FAs, we do not have enough to trade for proven stars, these picks we have are currently our ONLY opportunity to potentially add that "game changing" talent...

    Until we have that, a player like Cole HAS to be drafted ahead of a player like Hali...
    Beautiful... couldn't have said it better myself!

    To me it's obvious guys like Edwards, Deni, Obi and Cole will be productive in the NBA right away because of their advanced scoring abilities. No rookie is entering the NBA a finished product or locking anyone down on defense. But if you are a great scorer it will shine with more space in the NBA.

    Ball, Haliburton, Hayes, Cassius Winston to me are guys who will help a team like the Bulls, Cavs, Celtics, Miami, Orlando who have some pretty good scorers but need more ball movement.

    Knicks need more advanced scorers first.
    Last edited by Knicks Boogie; 09-22-2020 at 08:43 AM.

  12. #10002
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    Again seeing mocks again but this time on NBC Sports it has the Knicks at #8 taking this time Obi Toppin with their pick

  13. #10003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Again seeing mocks again but this time on NBC Sports it has the Knicks at #8 taking this time Obi Toppin with their pick
    I'm not against Obi as the pick... dude is a killer on the court... we need that. He isn't scared to go right at anybody, can shoot on all 3 levels and is a good passer. Thibs and Woody can cover him up on D until he gets better.

    Obi is a 20ppg 8reb player in his rookie season. I don't think they draft him without trading Randle though.

  14. #10004
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Again seeing mocks again but this time on NBC Sports it has the Knicks at #8 taking this time Obi Toppin with their pick
    Letís hope those mocks are wrong...

    Literally cannot see a worse pick for us

  15. #10005
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    Jan 2019
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    1,625
    A panel of NBA executives rank the most talented franchise players under 25 from 1-15. Sadly RJ Barrett wasn't even mentioned.

    The Knicks need to find their franchise guy. I just hope they make a wise decision.

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