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  1. #9976
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    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    I've been all in on Ball since day 1, he's what we need.
    Was just going to say that heís the only elite facilitator available in the draft lol. Haliburton is a good passer, but heís throwing that elite word around to freely.

  2. #9977
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Was just going to say that heís the only elite facilitator available in the draft lol. Haliburton is a good passer, but heís throwing that elite word around to freely.
    I think hayes is an elite facilitator

  3. #9978
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    I think hayes is an elite facilitator
    he may well be, dont think he is, but if he cant break down a defense it will limit his opportunities to set guys up.

    edit - sorry thought you said Hali... Hayes is just an unknown to me. cant get a good read on him.
    Last edited by nycericanguy; 09-21-2020 at 08:04 PM.

  4. #9979
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    he may well be, dont think he is, but if he cant break down a defense it will limit his opportunities to set guys up.
    Well that and his lack of shooting but supposedly his playmaking has him so high

    I think in the right situation he can be special just not here unless rj figures out his shot

  5. #9980
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    he may well be, dont think he is, but if he cant break down a defense it will limit his opportunities to set guys up.
    He does enough. Heís got offensive skills, just not great from 3.

  6. #9981
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    Oct 2006
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    22,268
    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    Well that and his lack of shooting but supposedly his playmaking has him so high

    I think in the right situation he can be special just not here unless rj figures out his shot
    A PG that can't shoot and doesn't have elite quick first step I don't care how crafty ball handler he could be but he's has too many flaws.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

  7. #9982
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    Jul 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    A PG that can't shoot and doesn't have elite quick first step I don't care how crafty ball handler he could be but he's has too many flaws.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
    Who are we talking about? If itís Hayes I feel like thereís a damn good chance heís a better 3 point shooter in the NBA than Ball.

  8. #9983
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Who are we talking about? If itís Hayes I feel like thereís a damn good chance heís a better 3 point shooter in the NBA than Ball.
    From what I heard he can't shoot that well

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

  9. #9984
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    Jun 2011
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    653
    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Knicks were:
    Defensive efficiency: 23rd
    Three-point percentage: 29th
    Three-point rate: 30th
    Assists per game: 27th
    Assist rate: 27th

    This screams Haliburton...throw in a couple of slashers who can create and play make for others, while they jump out of the gym. Scrubb / Eijah Hughes.
    Haliburton based on your philosophy is a sound choice.

    What some are trying to explain here however is that the philosophy itself is flawed.

    In this post you describe the "fit" you believe he has, in others you describe the elite "facilitators"...

    What I believe you are missing though is that we are too early in the rebuild to have anything for anyone to "fit"...

    We are too lack in talent for a "facilitator" to have anything to facilitate to...

    We have to pick the players with the greatest chance and odds to become dominant overall players...

    There are 0 players in this draft that guarantee that type of production, but we are not yet in any position to bypass the players with the greatest odds to reach that level...

    We are not signing big time FAs, we do not have enough to trade for proven stars, these picks we have are currently our ONLY opportunity to potentially add that "game changing" talent...

    Until we have that, a player like Cole HAS to be drafted ahead of a player like Hali...
    Last edited by NYK2RIP; 09-21-2020 at 10:59 PM.

  10. #9985
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    From what I heard he can't shoot that well

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
    He apparently can shoot off the dribble, but not nearly as effective in catch and shoot...

    Someone else mentioned this, but I too cannot for the life of me get a feel for Hayes' game...

    I don't know if it's just that I'm watching the wrong tape on his games or what...

    But I really haven't found any reason, via eye test, to be excited if he ends up being the player we select...

    We throw "bust" around a lot, but I would not be shocked if he's the player who ends up not living up to his selected spot in this draft...

    Or maybe its just me missing what all these "experts" are all seeing in his potential NBA future....

  11. #9986
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    Oct 2006
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    8,176
    Matt Babcock was on KFTV tonight and his new mock draft has the Knicks picking...
    #8 Okoro
    #27 Maxey
    #38 Asobuke

    I hate Okoro at 8 because he doesn't fit with RJ.

    Maxey at 27 would be a steal. I think he has D.Mitchell potential too.

    Asobuke might be a good backup Center. He is big and moves his feet well.

    Babcock has Obi Toppin going #1 overall. They said he has been blowing teams away in workouts.

  12. #9987
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    Jul 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYK2RIP View Post
    He apparently can shoot off the dribble, but not nearly as effective in catch and shoot...

    Someone else mentioned this, but I too cannot for the life of me get a feel for Hayes' game...

    I don't know if it's just that I'm watching the wrong tape on his games or what...

    But I really haven't found any reason, via eye test, to be excited if he ends up being the player we select...

    We throw "bust" around a lot, but I would not be shocked if he's the player who ends up not living up to his selected spot in this draft...

    Or maybe its just me missing what all these "experts" are all seeing in his potential NBA future....
    So hereís what youíre missing:

    Heís 18, season cut short this year due to COVID, but at these young ages what youíre looking for is quick leaps in performance/skill improvement.

    Most 18 year olds in Euroleague arenít on the A team. Theyíre on the B team. If they are on the A team they usually donít get playing time.

    Hayes at 18 not only made the A team but ran them as Point Guard for 27 minutes a game, averaging 13 ppg and over 6 assists, shooting 39% from three on over 4 attempts a game and 91% from the line. Heís also a pretty damn good defender with great size for position.

    Again it is NOT the norm in Euroleague for 18 year olds to be on the A team, and if they are they usually barely play. Imo Hayes is a top 5 prospect in this draft, wonít be surprised if he ends up one of the 3 or 4 best from this class.

    Advanced floater game, great playmaking including high level off the dribble one handed passes, great step back shooter - thereís a lot there.

  13. #9988
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Matt Babcock was on KFTV tonight and his new mock draft has the Knicks picking...
    #8 Okoro
    #27 Maxey
    #38 Asobuke

    I hate Okoro at 8 because he doesn't fit with RJ.

    Maxey at 27 would be a steal. I think he has D.Mitchell potential too.

    Asobuke might be a good backup Center. He is big and moves his feet well.

    Babcock has Obi Toppin going #1 overall. They said he has been blowing teams away in workouts.
    Maxey at 27, is better then Hampton at 27...

    That would be an absolute haul...

    Cole/Maxey
    8/27

  14. #9989
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    So hereís what youíre missing:

    Heís 18, season cut short this year due to COVID, but at these young ages what youíre looking for is quick leaps in performance/skill improvement.

    Most 18 year olds in Euroleague arenít on the A team. Theyíre on the B team. If they are on the A team they usually donít get playing time.

    Hayes at 18 not only made the A team but ran them as Point Guard for 27 minutes a game, averaging 13 ppg and over 6 assists, shooting 39% from three on over 4 attempts a game and 91% from the line. Heís also a pretty damn good defender with great size for position.

    Again it is NOT the norm in Euroleague for 18 year olds to be on the A team, and if they are they usually barely play. Imo Hayes is a top 5 prospect in this draft, wonít be surprised if he ends up one of the 3 or 4 best from this class.

    Advanced floater game, great playmaking including high level off the dribble one handed passes, great step back shooter - thereís a lot there.
    I understand the stats and achievements, do you have a favorite Hayes tape?

    I just don't see it, eye test wise, again I would like to, because if he "drops", my guess is FO picks him...

  15. #9990
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    Jul 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYK2RIP View Post
    I understand the stats and achievements, do you have a favorite Hayes tape?

    I just don't see it, eye test wise, again I would like to, because if he "drops", my guess is FO picks him...
    Iíve watched a lot of tape on him. If youíre interested Iíd just say go down the rabbit hole, you can YouTube Killian Hayes full game and find good stuff.

    If heís there at 8 we should 1000% take him imo but I doubt he gets past Detroit. He could go before that.

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