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  1. #10321
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Man you really need to stop skewing what people say in this forum to make it seem like you know what your talking about. I guess that's what a shady one does...lol.. I never compared Frank to Booker and those others. I've always compared Frank to Smart. I compared the Knicks young rebuilding team to teams that have successfully rebuilt without trading for veteran all-stars. RJ is not Booker and Mitch is not Ayton but they are the Knicks version in our rebuild.

    Knicks fans have to learn to get behind and encourage our young players instead of wanting their head on a platter because they aren't as good as you want them to be.

    You just told me Iím skewing things, then you went ahead and said what I thought you were saying...

    First off, have Phoenix hasnít rebuilt yet. Second, if we had young talent like Phoenix, or Denver did, Iíd feel a lot better. All those guys were better than Frank as rookies. By then, or by year 2, they were way better than Frank will ever be. I know you werenít exactly saying Frank is those guys, but they arenít even in the same league. Itís not reasonable to even ďkind ofĒ mention it. I can read and comprehend just fine, Iíd like to think you can too. From now on Iíll spell it out for you, if you prefer.

    I donít want anyoneís head on a platter. Itís just reality. You can hope and write all you want that we need to be patient, and our guys can turn into stars. But that doesnít mean itís likely to happen.
    Our ďyoung talentĒ is perhaps worst in the league. Even other bad teams have more than us. Just because I donít see all roses and sunshine, doesnít mean I canít see positives. Or root for players. I have acknowledged Frank has improved, was rooting for Randle, was hopeful for Knox and DSJ. All of which have unfortunately proved me wrong. Now Iím on the other side, need to see something to encourage me they are possible answers. Is that not reasonable?

    Itís kind of like Jets fans trying to justify Darnold. As of now, heís not good at all. Yes, thereís excuses, and itís not all his fault. But plenty of it is his fault
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-26-2020 at 01:44 PM.

  2. #10322
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Lopez always had a 15-18 foot jumper, it's one thing to extend your range a bit over the years, it's another thing to go from 100% dunks to shooting 3's.

    I'm not putting Okongwu on a pedestal, just saying he's a better prospect. There's a reason he's slated to go in the 4-8 range and Mitch went #36. And Okongwu is being ranked higher than even Wiseman by a lot of people. basically the best big in this draft.

    as far as cost, Mitch might be cheaper the next year or two only, but Okongwu has 5 years of team control at under $10m per.
    Come on man you know why Mitch went #36... no college and no basketball for a year... otherwise Mitch would have been a lottery pick. He 10 times more athletic than any big in this draft and already a top 5 defender at his position.

    I remember seeing Towns shooting 3s his rookie season and nobody thought he would ever be able to shoot them in actual NBA games because he didn't even shoot one 3 at Kentucky. Not one!

    Guess who put Towns in position to become a pretty good NBA 3 point shooter? Thibs that who.

    Mitch can shoot. It's not fake when you see Mitch hitting 3s at decent pace in practice and shoot arounds. The problem has always been lack of coaching, lack of staff telling Mitch to take that shot if you are open. 50% of basketball is confidence. If Thibs designs plays to get Mitch open for 3 that would be huge for his confidence and open the paint up big time for slashers like RJ, Randle and DSJ.

  3. #10323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Man you really need to stop skewing what people say in this forum to make it seem like you know what your talking about. I guess that's what a shady one does...lol.. I never compared Frank to Booker and those others. I've always compared Frank to Smart. I compared the Knicks young rebuilding team to teams that have successfully rebuilt without trading for veteran all-stars. RJ is not Booker and Mitch is not Ayton but they are the Knicks version in our rebuild.

    Knicks fans have to learn to get behind and encourage our young players instead of wanting their head on a platter because they aren't as good as you want them to be.
    At least someone said it, lmao

    I know Iím not perfect but I donít try to convince anyone in here of views.

    We need Frank more than people believe, on another team he can end up being a Smart type player and a winning team always look for one on there roster.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  4. #10324
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    At least someone said it, lmao

    I know Iím not perfect but I donít try to convince anyone in here of views.

    We need Frank more than people believe, on another team he can end up being a Smart type player and a winning team always look for one on there roster.
    See the above reply. And whoís convincing anyone of anything? Itís a discussion, right? Isnít that what we do here? Post something, then discuss it either way? I agree with things you say, and disagree with others. Itís ok

    Frank could be a Smart-type. But he needs the right mix around him. Letís go get it. I still say Smart will always be better. But that will somehow get replied to as ďhatingĒ
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-26-2020 at 01:55 PM.

  5. #10325
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    Mitch with college was already considered a lottery pick before he dis-enrolled.

    Marc Gasol, Robin Lopez, Jonas V those are all players who never attempted a 3ball in the NBA. Robin started last year, Gasol 3 years ago and Jonas about 2. Itís giving them the green light and confidence to let them attempt.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  6. #10326
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    You just told me Iím skewing things, then you went ahead and said what I thought you were saying...

    First off, have Phoenix hasnít rebuilt yet. Second, if we had young talent like Phoenix, or Denver did, Iíd feel a lot better. All those guys were better than Frank as rookies. By then, or by year 2, they were way better than Frank will ever be. I know you werenít exactly saying Frank is those guys, but they arenít even in the same league. Itís not reasonable to even ďkind ofĒ mention it. I can read and comprehend just fine, Iíd like to think you can too. From now on Iíll spell it out for you, if you prefer.

    I donít want anyoneís head on a platter. Itís just reality. You can hope and write all you want that we need to be patient, and our guys can turn into stars. But that doesnít mean itís likely to happen.
    Our ďyoung talentĒ is perhaps worst in the league. Even other bad teams have more than us. Just because I donít see all roses and sunshine, doesnít mean I canít see positives. Or root for players. I have acknowledged Frank has improved, was rooting for Randle, was hopeful for Knox and DSJ. All of which have unfortunately proved me wrong. Now Iím on the other side, need to see something to encourage me they are possible answers. Is that not reasonable?

    Itís kind of like Jets fans trying to justify Darnold. As of now, heís not good at all. Yes, thereís excuses, and itís not all his fault. But plenty of it is his fault
    Again I only compared Frank to Smart... I'm comparing rookie Booker to rookie RJ talent wise. Ayton to Mitch talent wise. Ayton is a better scorer only because our coaches have always limited what Mitch is allowed to do.

    Watch more basketball then let talk.

    I'm a Bills fan so I know what a rebuild looks like, it takes many years of staying on task and drafting well. Jets are doing the same thing the Knicks are doing rushing the process and having no patience with young players like Darnold. Keep watching Grasshopper

  7. #10327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Again I only compared Frank to Smart... I'm comparing rookie Booker to rookie RJ talent wise. Ayton to Mitch talent wise. Ayton is a better scorer only because our coaches have always limited what Mitch is allowed to do.

    Watch more basketball then let talk.

    I'm a Bills fan so I know what a rebuild looks like, it takes many years of staying on task and drafting well. Jets are doing the same thing the Knicks are doing rushing the process and having no patience with young players like Darnold. Keep watching Grasshopper
    Again. Just because someone has patience, or a team does, doesnít mean it pays off. And this team will never fully have that. You know itís true. If I could sign up now for a proper rebuild like you want, say 3 years at least, Iíd gladly do it. But that wonít ever happen here

    And IMO, Rookie for Rookie, RJ and Mitch are not equivalent to Booker and Ayton. So thats why I take the position I do. If we had that now, Iíd feel much better.

    And the Bills have been mostly terrible with a bit of mediocre for about all of the 2000s. So that didnít exactly go well
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-26-2020 at 02:01 PM.

  8. #10328
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    See the above reply. And whoís convincing anyone of anything? Itís a discussion, right? Isnít that what we do here? Post something, then discuss it either way? I agree with things you say, and disagree with others. Itís ok
    Itís not a discussion anymore when you the team analyst insists that most peopleís view and ideas are skewed. Itís just how I view the way you come off in your writing. Your breaking down everyone thought and saying it should be this way and thatís it. Your beliefs are ingrained to the way a sports writer well writes.

    You disagree a lot more and then give your analysis on small level scales with some of the players we have. I think for some like me in the 40ís and seen the good and bad, I prefer letting the kid get burn without someone being placed in front of them to stop there growth.

    Your stuck on trying to win and I donít care about winning. Thatís where we are different bringing in anyone of caliber you want is no different than what most FO has done to try to well win.

    Face it we have different views, I prefer losing the next 3-4 years while seeing the young kids play and see what we have to work with, and your thinking like most FO who failed because they want to see wins.
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  9. #10329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    You're being extremely obtuse. That's my point. If Mitch was allowed to come to the NBA right out of high school, he would have been a top 10 pick in his draft.

    The only reason he dropped is the sketchy circumstances surrounding his enrollment at WKU, where his godfather was an assistant coach. He dropped out right after his godfather got fired, looked at other schools, re-enrolled at WKU, then decided to forego the season to prepare for the NBA Draft.

    You don't see how that would raise some red flags for NBA front offices? Or how that's different from say Amare Stoudemire jumping straight from high school to the NBA? Or a guy like Wiseman who wanted to play in college, but was ultimately deemed ineligible?
    ok, he was ranked top 10 out of HS so you win.

    but i'd still make the trade, get a guy cost controlled for 5 years that could potentially be a more complete player and play more than 22mpg.

    sidenote I read Tyrell Terry is now 6'3 174lbs, that's huge if true, I thought he was 6'0 160.... he can flat out shoot, could be a mini Trae Young. would love him at #27

  10. #10330
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    Itís not a discussion anymore when you the team analyst insists that most peopleís view and ideas are skewed. Itís just how I view the way you come off in your writing. Your breaking down everyone thought and saying it should be this way and thatís it. Your beliefs are ingrained to the way a sports writer well writes.

    You disagree a lot more and then give your analysis on small level scales with some of the players we have. I think for some like me in the 40ís and seen the good and bad, I prefer letting the kid get burn without someone being placed in front of them to stop there growth.

    Your stuck on trying to win and I donít care about winning. Thatís where we are different bringing in anyone of caliber you want is no different than what most FO has done to try to well win.

    Face it we have different views, I prefer losing the next 3-4 years while seeing the young kids play and see what we have to work with, and your thinking like most FO who failed because they want to see wins.
    Again, see above. Iíd be all about a patient rebuild. Itís not happening. Dolan, Rose, and Thibs are going to be cool with 3 or 4 years of rebuilding? Not likely

    Itís not necessarily I disagree. Itís more like Iím adjusting it. The rebuild will get canned as soon as thereís a glimmer of hope. And you assume Iím a kid. Iím right there with you.
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-26-2020 at 02:05 PM.

  11. #10331
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Again. Just because someone has patience, or a team does, doesnít mean it pays off. And this team will never fully have that. You know itís true. If I could sign up now for a proper rebuild like you want, say 3 years at least, Iíd gladly do it. But that wonít ever happen here

    And IMO, Rookie for Rookie, RJ and Mitch are not equivalent to Booker and Ayton. So thats why I take the position I do. If we had that now, Iíd feel much better.

    And the Bills have been mostly terrible with a bit of mediocre for about all of the 2000s. So that didnít exactly go well
    How do you know this ? Why because of Rose, he brought in a team that will stop him from doing what your thinking. Thibs said he wants to build his team in the same mold of Riley. You know how long it took Riley when he got there to build that franchise up ?
    ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
    ― Albert Einstein
    ďI will be the first to admit that I am a pessimist by nature. It is, after all, the wisest way to be. We pessimists have everything to gain, whereas optimists have a fifty-fifty chance of being disappointed.Ē
    ― Tamar Myers
    ďDon't let them drag you down by rumors just go with what you believe in.Ē
    ― Michael Jordan

  12. #10332
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Again. Just because someone has patience, or a team does, doesnít mean it pays off. And this team will never fully have that. You know itís true. If I could sign up now for a proper rebuild like you want, say 3 years at least, Iíd gladly do it. But that wonít ever happen here

    And IMO, Rookie for Rookie, RJ and Mitch are not equivalent to Booker and Ayton. So thats why I take the position I do. If we had that now, Iíd feel much better.

    And the Bills have been mostly terrible with a bit of mediocre for about all of the 2000s. So that didnít exactly go well
    Lol the more you put off the rebuild the longer it takes for us to be an actual good team

    You can do shortcuts but you can't dodge the process unless you wanna be mediocre forever

  13. #10333
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Again. Just because someone has patience, or a team does, doesnít mean it pays off. And this team will never fully have that. You know itís true. If I could sign up now for a proper rebuild like you want, say 3 years at least, Iíd gladly do it. But that wonít ever happen here

    And IMO, Rookie for Rookie, RJ and Mitch are not equivalent to Booker and Ayton. So thats why I take the position I do. If we had that now, Iíd feel much better.

    And the Bills have been mostly terrible with a bit of mediocre for about all of the 2000s. So that didnít exactly go well
    Bills been a playoff team the last 2 seasons and are 2-0 right now with a convincing whipping against the Jets...lol

    It's going pretty good buddy

  14. #10334
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcallmetm View Post
    How do you know this ? Why because of Rose, he brought in a team that will stop him from doing what your thinking. Thibs said he wants to build his team in the same mold of Riley. You know how long it took Riley when he got there to build that franchise up ?
    Yes. Mostly Rose, and Dolan. You think Rose, agent to the stars, sold Dolan on his desire to rebuild slow?

    Iíll believe it, and be pleasantly surprised, when I see it

  15. #10335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Bills been a playoff team the last 2 seasons and are 2-0 right now with a convincing whipping against the Jets...lol

    It's going pretty good buddy
    Right now, it is. But ignore what, 15 years? Not skewing anything there, are we?

    I hope I donít have to wait until my 50s to see a good Knicks team on the floor
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-26-2020 at 02:12 PM.

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