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  1. #3646
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    Quote Originally Posted by SK6 View Post
    I agree Hayes is showing more than Frank did but that still doesn't change the fact that Hayes is having trouble getting separation from defenders in what amounts to a trash basketball league.

    I wouldn't be upset if Hayes is the pick.

    Also, Didn't you say you don't want another project?
    Hayes looks like he'll be good but I think he definitely lands in project territory like Knox and Frank.

    To be honest if we're picking in the late lottery might as well get Cole who looks like he'll be a player and is a NYer.

    Not in the mood for another Euro with no ties to NY who has no loyalty to the city.

    Getting a guy that has ties to NY like RJB or is an actual NYer like Cole makes a lot of sense for this team.
    People that want this team to succeed not just because they're on the team but because they Love this city.

    If there is a player like that ranked right around where we're picking why not go for it?
    Hayes is not playing in a trash basketball league. I donít know where this is coming from. The BBL is one of the better leagues in Europe. Itís certainly better than the competition LaMelo was facing.

    Hayes is not a project. Heís quite polished, but he can improve on a few things (mainly his right hand and 3PT shooting). Heís one of the youngest players in the draft and has loads of potential.

    Cole is a project. Heís not a playmaker and itís unlikely that he is a true PG at the next level. He lacks the size to play the 2.

  2. #3647
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Frank and Hayes played in the same league. To your point, Hayes actually played in EuroCup, Frank didn't. Frank was still playing in U18 tournaments instead.
    Yeah itís just a lazy comparison IMO. Thereís still Euro bias because we just arenít exposed to them like we are with American players.

    And itís funny because Hayes was actually born as an American lol

  3. #3648
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Hayes is just a better prospect than Frank period. It is what it is. Hayes may end up going top 5 in this draft where Frank was really more of a mid to late lotto prospect.
    More of a sign of the weakness of this draft than anything.

    I think DSJ was considered a better prospect than Hayes, and DSJ and Frank were mocked in the same range for the most part.

  4. #3649
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Perry wasnít the GM. Phil Jackson was still in charge. What are you talking about?

    The Knicks for a fact liked Ntilikina more. He was the player Gaines was pushing over everyone else. They wanted to draft him and trade back in for Mitchell. If they were higher on Mitchell, they wouldíve done it the opposite way.
    How do you know Gaines absolutely said pick Frank over Mitchell scouts bring in multiple names to pick from they don't just follow one guy the fact remains unless Knicks get real GM nothing will change you can hire HOF scout analytics coach trainer won't mean jack ****.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

  5. #3650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    More of a sign of the weakness of this draft than anything.

    I think DSJ was considered a better prospect than Hayes, and DSJ and Frank were mocked in the same range for the most part.
    I know weíre hearing this draft is weak and I had DSJ right under Fox in my board for 2017 but there were also red flags with DSJ that seem to have been legit based on how bad he looks now.

  6. #3651
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    2020 Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    More of a sign of the weakness of this draft than anything.

    I think DSJ was considered a better prospect than Hayes, and DSJ and Frank were mocked in the same range for the most part.
    Hayes is a divisive prospect mostly due to the depth of PGs in this class and the fact that heís from overseas. We see it every year. Iíve seen Hayes as high as #1 to as low as the low-teens.

    Cole is the DSJ of this class in terms of being a high-risk scoring PG with potential, but questionable BBIQ and efficiency. DSJ coming out of college had loads of potential, but his flaws were exposed in the NBA.

  7. #3652
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    How do you know Gaines absolutely said pick Frank over Mitchell scouts bring in multiple names to pick from they don't just follow one guy the fact remains unless Knicks get real GM nothing will change you can hire HOF scout analytics coach trainer won't mean jack ****.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
    Because that's literally what was reported after and Gaines has confirmed it himself on Twitter.

    I'm not saying that they don't bring multiple names. I'm saying that Frank was his favorite of all the players he liked in that range.
    Last edited by smood999; 05-21-2020 at 07:07 PM.

  8. #3653
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    He's an intriguing option with the 27th pick.

  9. #3654
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Hayes is a divisive prospect mostly due to the depth of PGs in this class and the fact that heís from overseas. We see it every year. Iíve seen Hayes as high as #1 to as low as the low-teens.

    Cole is the DSJ of this class in terms of being a high-risk scoring PG with potential, but questionable BBIQ and efficiency. DSJ coming out of college had loads of potential, but his flaws were exposed in the NBA.
    I view Hayes and Cole as both boom-bust prospects. Itís just very hard to see how and whether they will translate to the NBA. Same with Lamelo really.

    Hali is the high floor, low ceiling guy, where you can come away pretty comfortable youíre getting a solid pro but not a star.

    Still, my ranking is

    Lamelo
    Hayes
    Cole
    Haliburton
    Lewis
    Who cares

  10. #3655
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    Hayes definitely is also a good product but to me cole has a better shot and the athleticism

    Hali is a sleeper also he has the size and probably the best shot of them all

    Its a deep draft for pgs we are actually lucky to be in this position thats why i wouldn't trade for ball

    We can get one of those guys plus another pick

  11. #3656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I view Hayes and Cole as both boom-bust prospects. Itís just very hard to see how and whether they will translate to the NBA. Same with Lamelo really.

    Hali is the high floor, low ceiling guy, where you can come away pretty comfortable youíre getting a solid pro but not a star.

    Still, my ranking is

    Lamelo
    Hayes
    Cole
    Haliburton
    Lewis
    Who cares
    Hayes is excellent scoring inside the 3PT line and based on his mid-range shooting, FT shooting, and crafty footwork/shot-creation abilities, I canít see how he doesnít become at least an average 3PT shooter (35%+) in the NBA. Heís a great finisher with size and good strength for his age. Add that with his passing and playmaking abilities and he looks like a pretty safe prospect to me. Heís more athletic than heís given credit for, heís just not super explosive.

  12. #3657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    While Hayes may have some scoring instincts, heís going to have trouble getting in the paint in the NBA. He has a lot of trouble getting by defenders in the German league.

    Cole struggled at the rim in part because he played with two traditonal bigs and no shooters, and thus absolutely no spacing.

    Hali is a decent finisher but heís allergic to the paint, kind of like Lonzo.

    All that said, still like Hayes the most of the bunch.
    Agree about Cole, I have seen this first hand because I watched him play a number of times. This is why people who just go by stats are flawed. Stats must be taken within context.

  13. #3658
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    This is a great video on Coleís weaknesses:



    Some of these plays are just downright awful. He has the mamba mindset just like RJ does, I donít think they can co-exist. We need a PG that can get their own, but more importantly a PG that can make players around them better. I think Hayes has the best combination of this, followed by LaMelo because I have concerns about his shot/scoring efficiency. Iím split on Haliburton/Lewis, Tyrese has grown on me a lot. Some of his weaknesses can be improved.

    I have Cole in the same group as Maxey and Hampton. Highly touted combo guards who have disappointed.

  14. #3659
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    The NBA acts like most women. Height is always important. Wiseman will get drafted top 5 and I'm sure he's good but the way, the lost post has disappeared, I dunno if he's worth he money.

    The Knicks don't have any assets to give up but they do have a plethora of extra draft picks (which they can lottery protect) plus a swap of 1st rounders to bargain for the rights to LaMelo Ball.

    There's NO WAY the Sacramento Kings will do business with the Knicks. Rememeber Perry broke his contract with the Kings. Three months into the job as Vice President, he resigned in order to come to New York. After Perry left, the Kings hired Brandon Williams who dumped payroll and went all youth. As a result, the Kings became incremental better than the Knicks by at least 10 games each season. Perry couldn't get the Kings to give up a second rounder to take any of the players on the Knicks squad.

  15. #3660
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    This is a great video on Coleís weaknesses:



    Some of these plays are just downright awful. He has the mamba mindset just like RJ does, I donít think they can co-exist. We need a PG that can get their own, but more importantly a PG that can make players around them better. I think Hayes has the best combination of this, followed by LaMelo because I have concerns about his shot/scoring efficiency. Iím split on Haliburton/Lewis, Tyrese has grown on me a lot. Some of his weaknesses can be improved.

    I have Cole in the same group as Maxey and Hampton. Highly touted combo guards who have disappointed.
    Yeah ouch. Obviously every player has flaws and makes mistakes but I just find it a bit funny that we automatically think one or both of this years picks are going to start for us off bat. They could very well be bench pieces if they canít quickly adjust, which many rookies struggle to do.

    Iím holding out hope we land one of Ball or Edwards but I think my PG ranking after that is Hayes and then a bit of a coin toss between Cole/Hali.

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