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  1. #3466
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    I agree with everyone that this is a weak class, but I also think that Ball would be a top 5 pick in any draft. The issue is that there isnít a true one, not that he doesnít have the same potential as most players picked that high. I donít think he is any more risky either.

    I would equate it to trading up for Fox a few years ago. In hindsight, all of you would do that. I donít see the difference here besides knowing what Fox has turned out to be. Considering that Lonzo went before Fox, I think itís safe to assume that LaMelo wouldíve went higher as well since most agree that heís a better prospect than his brother was.
    Last edited by smood999; 05-17-2020 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #3467
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I think Tyrese is the kind of guy that may not be a ďstarĒ but heís a guy you are really glad you have.
    You mean like Frank?

    To me, Haliburton is a more consistent shooting Frank but we don't even know that yet. We need a real PG for once. A guy who can score, pass, defend and lead the team. I don't see any player in this draft that checks all those boxes so we need to get CP3 in here for a couple of years to coach one of these young bucks up... simple as that.

    I think CP3 is at a point right now where it's more about the money and his brand moving forward than winning a chip as the 4th option on a championship team. CP3's State Farm commercials streaming in Time Square and at MSG while being a part of a Knick uprising might be a hell of a way to go out!

  3. #3468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    You mean like Frank?

    To me, Haliburton is a more consistent shooting Frank but we don't even know that yet. We need a real PG for once. A guy who can score, pass, defend and lead the team. I don't see any player in this draft that checks all those boxes so we need to get CP3 in here for a couple of years to coach one of these young bucks up... simple as that.

    I think CP3 is at a point right now where it's more about the money and his brand moving forward than winning a chip as the 4th option on a championship team. CP3's State Farm commercials streaming in Time Square and at MSG while being a part of a Knick uprising might be a hell of a way to go out!
    No, not like Frank. Nothing like Frank. Halliburton can shoot, and pass. So I guess you could say he has the pluses of Frank, but is better at what Frank stinks at. Like most actual good basketball players.

    Iíd view him as a Brogdon type player. Which may not be the ideal PG, but he can play it if needed, and when put in a secondary playmaker role, is very good, and valuable. We need that kind of guy as well. All teams do..

    And all the PGs we might take definitely have a high bust factor IMO. If itís not Ball or Hayes, Iím nervous. Even with those 2, thereís questions

    CP3 has been discussed ad nauseum, not going there.

  4. #3469
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    No, not like Frank. Nothing like Frank. Halliburton can shoot, and pass. So I guess you could say he has the pluses of Frank, but is better at what Frank stinks at. Like most actual good basketball players.

    Iíd view him as a Brogdon type player. Which may not be the ideal PG, but he can play it if needed, and when put in a secondary playmaker role, is very good, and valuable. We need that kind of guy as well. All teams do..

    And all the PGs we might take definitely have a high bust factor IMO. If itís not Ball or Hayes, Iím nervous. Even with those 2, thereís questions

    CP3 has been discussed ad nauseum, not going there.
    Your bias is showing

  5. #3470
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I agree with everyone that this is a weak class, but I also think that Ball would be a top 5 pick in any draft. The issue is that there isnít a true one, not that he doesnít have the same potential as most players picked that high. I donít think he is any more risky either.

    I would equate it to trading up for Fox a few years ago. In hindsight, all of you would do that. I donít see the difference here besides knowing what Fox has turned out to be. Considering that Lonzo went before Fox, I think itís safe to assume that LaMelo wouldíve went higher as well since most agree that heís a better prospect than his brother was.
    It depends on the draft. Last year, I think he would be. Absolutely not in 2018, 2017 I donít think so. 2016 he would be.

    Lonzo coming out of UCLA was a more hyped prospect than LaMelo is right now. The hype for him was pretty crazy and he was statistically excellent unlike LaMelo. Weíre only saying LaMelo will be better than Lonzo now because Lonzo has been a disappointment overall.

  6. #3471
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    No, not like Frank. Nothing like Frank. Halliburton can shoot, and pass. So I guess you could say he has the pluses of Frank, but is better at what Frank stinks at. Like most actual good basketball players.

    Iíd view him as a Brogdon type player. Which may not be the ideal PG, but he can play it if needed, and when put in a secondary playmaker role, is very good, and valuable. We need that kind of guy as well. All teams do..

    And all the PGs we might take definitely have a high bust factor IMO. If itís not Ball or Hayes, Iím nervous. Even with those 2, thereís questions

    CP3 has been discussed ad nauseum, not going there.
    I think Tyrese is passive like Frank is, but heís a better shooter and playmaker than Frank is for sure. Frank is the better defender though.

    I donít see any similarities between Brogdon and Tyrese, I think they are polar opposites. Brogdon does most of his damage in the paint and rarely takes jumpshots while Tyrese is mostly adverse to getting into the paint and mostly shoots jumpers and 3s. Heís wiry and athletic while Brogdon is a big, slower guard. I think Tyrese can be a way better playmaker than Brogdon though.

  7. #3472
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulBrotha View Post
    Your bias is showing
    No not really. Frank is basically good at defense, and thatís it. I donít see how Tyrese is ďlike FrankĒ as it was mentioned. Is it biased to say Frank isnít a very good player, or that he doesnít really do much well except defend?

    Or is it reality?

    Halliburton is a better passer. And can shoot. So how is he like Frank? If Frank could shoot, we wouldnít be constantly talking about whether he should play more or not. He would just be out there getting minutes

    Anything to add?
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 05-17-2020 at 10:52 PM.

  8. #3473
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    I think Tyrese is passive like Frank is, but heís a better shooter and playmaker than Frank is for sure. Frank is the better defender though.

    I donít see any similarities between Brogdon and Tyrese, I think they are polar opposites. Brogdon does most of his damage in the paint and rarely takes jumpshots while Tyrese is mostly adverse to getting into the paint and mostly shoots jumpers and 3s. Heís wiry and athletic while Brogdon is a big, slower guard. I think Tyrese can be a way better playmaker than Brogdon though.
    I didnít mean he plays like Brogdon. Meant he could play a similar role/importance level. A strong support player that can play both ends, and help a team. And the part about not being an ideal starting PG, but capable in spurts, or as needed. But yeah, games arenít similar
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 05-17-2020 at 10:48 PM.

  9. #3474
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I didnít mean he plays like Brogdon. Meant he could play a similar role/importance level. A strong support player that can play both ends, and help a team. And the part about not being an ideal starting PG, but capable in spurts, or as needed. But yeah, games arenít similar
    Gotcha. If Tyrese is a legit volume 3PT shooter, I think heís pretty ideal starting PG in todayís game though. Heís actually a good finisher too, he just doesnít drive nearly enough. I think part of the reason is because the weakest part of his game is his dribble IMO, which also impacts his pull-up shooting as well (his shot is already unorthodox as it is).

  10. #3475
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    I agree. Lamelo Ball is a top 5 pick in any foreseeable draft. New York hasn't had an iconic star since Patrick Ewing. There's talk that Ball's camp would try to steer towards New York.

    If that's the case, then Knicks GM Perry needs to stick the landing. That means, he needs to move heaven and earth to get him. NOT trading assets for old man, Chris Paul...who couldn't hack it during D'Antoni's run/gun offense.

    What about plan B?

    Plan B means aiming a bit lower for Cole Anthony (who is no guarantee to fall to the Knicks) then trading back up to get Haliburton.

    As for Frank Ntilikina...If the Knicks hire Thibodeau, I truly believe he'll develop Frank and use him correctly. That means, not using him like a 3-point specialist (which is so stupid) but making him drive and use that body as he IS the Knicks best free throw shooter.

  11. #3476
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    It depends on the draft. Last year, I think he would be. Absolutely not in 2018, 2017 I donít think so. 2016 he would be.

    Lonzo coming out of UCLA was a more hyped prospect than LaMelo is right now. The hype for him was pretty crazy and he was statistically excellent unlike LaMelo. Weíre only saying LaMelo will be better than Lonzo now because Lonzo has been a disappointment overall.
    I think the general consensus is LaMelo can become a better player than Lonzo. I've even seen his break down mention this as well as the word on the street is LaMelo is a better play maker.

    For what ever reason I don't think you're being fair with your evaluation of LaMelo.
    LaMelo would go in the top 5 of any draft based on his play making skills, IQ and physical tools alone.
    Even then not going in the top 5 means very little. Curry went 7th. Klay T. went 11th. LaMelo's got the skills that the Knicks desperately need which is all that matters. Someone who is an elite playmaker with great size at his position allowing him to see over defenses. His low shooting %'s are a result of bad shot selection. A good coach will curtail this.

    If the Knicks could get LaMelo for pick #6+#27+#35+DSJ they should jump on it.

    I wouldn't touch the Dallas picks though.
    I think those could be higher than we think with just 1 injury in the year that High Schoolers are going to be allowed to be drafted.
    Knicks might get 2 elite prospects that year.

  12. #3477
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    Quote Originally Posted by SK6 View Post
    I think the general consensus is LaMelo can become a better player than Lonzo. I've even seen his break down mention this as well as the word on the street is LaMelo is a better play maker.

    For what ever reason I don't think you're being fair with your evaluation of LaMelo.
    LaMelo would go in the top 5 of any draft based on his play making skills, IQ and physical tools alone.
    Even then not going in the top 5 means very little. Curry went 7th. Klay T. went 11th. LaMelo's got the skills that the Knicks desperately need which is all that matters. Someone who is an elite playmaker with great size at his position allowing him to see over defenses. His low shooting %'s are a result of bad shot selection. A good coach will curtail this.

    If the Knicks could get LaMelo for pick #6+#27+#35+DSJ they should jump on it.

    I wouldn't touch the Dallas picks though.
    I think those could be higher than we think with just 1 injury in the year that High Schoolers are going to be allowed to be drafted.
    Knicks might get 2 elite prospects that year.
    That deal, Iíd make without a second thought

    I just am not a fan of giving up pick(s) that you have no idea how they turn out. Or in drafts that are expected to be much deeper than this years

    Iím just not high enough on Ball to go all in. I do really like him though. Iíd have to be like 90% that heís a borderline star at worst. Iím not there, more like 70% there, 30% solid starter
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 05-18-2020 at 09:46 AM.

  13. #3478
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    It depends on the draft. Last year, I think he would be. Absolutely not in 2018, 2017 I donít think so. 2016 he would be.

    Lonzo coming out of UCLA was a more hyped prospect than LaMelo is right now.
    The hype for him was pretty crazy and he was statistically excellent unlike LaMelo. Weíre only saying LaMelo will be better than Lonzo now because Lonzo has been a disappointment overall.
    I mean Lonzo played 36 games at UCLA, Melo played 12 games in Australia. that plays a huge role in that. Lonzo also played in the March tourney. We don't hear about RJ Hampton much at all and he was one of the top prospects coming in. Playing overseas can do that. But Melo I think projects to be better than Lonzo, even Lavar Ball has said Melo is the best of the group. And Lonzo has turned into a pretty damn good player.

  14. #3479
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    As long as his play is iconic it is all good. I am not really interested in someone's name to draw fans to the Garden. The Garden sells out regardless. If we get him and he does not do well the first people Lavar will blame on national television will be the Knicks organization, so the Knicks better get it right if he is here as the last thing we need is more bad publicity.

  15. #3480
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    Quote Originally Posted by SK6 View Post
    I think the general consensus is LaMelo can become a better player than Lonzo. I've even seen his break down mention this as well as the word on the street is LaMelo is a better play maker.

    For what ever reason I don't think you're being fair with your evaluation of LaMelo.
    LaMelo would go in the top 5 of any draft based on his play making skills, IQ and physical tools alone.
    Even then not going in the top 5 means very little. Curry went 7th. Klay T. went 11th. LaMelo's got the skills that the Knicks desperately need which is all that matters. Someone who is an elite playmaker with great size at his position allowing him to see over defenses. His low shooting %'s are a result of bad shot selection. A good coach will curtail this.

    If the Knicks could get LaMelo for pick #6+#27+#35+DSJ they should jump on it.

    I wouldn't touch the Dallas picks though.
    I think those could be higher than we think with just 1 injury in the year that High Schoolers are going to be allowed to be drafted.
    Knicks might get 2 elite prospects that year.
    I donít think the trades are that different besides it being more of a bet that the Mavs picks end up in the same area.

    Also, they donít have the Mavs pick in the year of the projected ďdouble draftĒ (2022). They have their pick next year and in 2023.

    Edit: after further thought, the trade you proposed does make more sense. Although 35 is similar to a late first, a first round pick is still more valuable. Also, while I think the Mavs pick will be late, it could still realistically be as high as 19 or 20 and youíre right about it taking just one injury and then it being a lottery pick.
    Last edited by smood999; 05-18-2020 at 11:34 AM.

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